About to pull the trigger on a scooter - Honda Metropolitan (CA)

[Ns1]

As the title says. Scooter looks to be in great condition for 1k. 2009, about 1100 miles.

I ride a BICYCLE daily; I have never ridden a scooter/motorbike before.

A few questions:

1) How important will an MSF class be for my situation?
2) wtf do I do about insurance?
3) can someone confirm that this falls under the "motorized scooter" exemption, and thus I can ride it with my standard driver's license?

http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/motors.html

Effective 1/1/2005, a motorized scooter is any two-wheeled device that has handlebars, has a floorboard that is designed to be stood upon when riding.
May have a driver seat that does not interfer with the ability to stand and ride and may also be designed to be powered by human propulsion.
Powered by electricity or other source.

Driver's License Requirements

Motorized scooter

Effective 1/1/2005, a Class C driver license or driver permit is required.

So ATOT, now's your chance to talk me into or out of this scooter

 

[Zenmervolt]

You'll need a license. It's not going to fall under the motorized scooter exception because it's clearly not what the law comprehended.

This is a motorized scooter within the definition of CA law. The vehicle in the photo you've provided is not. The floorboard on the Metropolitan is not "designed to be stood upon while riding." While it may be possible to do so, that's not the design intent.

If you go to the CA DMV site you'll clearly see that the Metropolitan will be considered to be either a motorcycle or a motor-driven cycle under CA law depending on its engine size: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/motorcycles/motorcycles.htm

As for insurance, call your provider and ask for a quote. CA does require insurance on motorcycles and motor-driven cycles.

MSF class is always a good idea. Though a lot of people on scooters neglect it. The same people who wouldn't dare get on a motorcycle because "it's too dangerous" seem to gleefully hop onto scooters with only shorts, sandals, and a t-shirt and then whip around the city at 35 mph paying almost no attention to traffic. Don't be one of those people.

ZV

 

[ViviTheMage]

How many CC? In MN if its 50CC + you have to get your motorcycle endorsement.

Love my Genuine Buddy 150 blackjack ... ride my sv650s more though, haha.

Take the MSF classes, they'll help you be more aware. I am with zenmervolt... just like those harley riders, not sure how they feel safe doing it in flip flops, shorts, and a tshirt is beyond me....at least most of us crotch rocket riders wear gear.

 

[Ns1]

The metro is 49cc

 

[ViviTheMage]

Well, looking at that link:

A motor-driven cycle has 149cc or less engine size. CVC §405
A motor-driven cycle has to be registered and the driver must have a motorcycle license (M1).

So you need to register it and get the endorsement in CA.

 

[TridenT]

You'll need a license. It's not going to fall under the motorized scooter exception because it's clearly not what the law comprehended.

This is a motorized scooter within the definition of CA law. The vehicle in the photo you've provided is not. The floorboard on the Metropolitan is not "designed to be stood upon while riding." While it may be possible to do so, that's not the design intent.

If you go to the CA DMV site you'll clearly see that the Metropolitan will be considered to be either a motorcycle or a motor-driven cycle under CA law depending on its engine size: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/motorcycles/motorcycles.htm

As for insurance, call your provider and ask for a quote. CA does require insurance on motorcycles and motor-driven cycles.

MSF class is always a good idea. Though a lot of people on scooters neglect it. The same people who wouldn't dare get on a motorcycle because "it's too dangerous" seem to gleefully hop onto scooters with only shorts, sandals, and a t-shirt and then whip around the city at 35 mph paying almost no attention to traffic. Don't be one of those people.

ZV

This.

Also, fun watching for the OP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mFkDJ0rpWA

Why does the OP want a scooter if they ride a bicycle daily? Bicycle is better for you and for the environment. Scooters are almost guaranteed to have no emission controls and be pretty bad for the environment. I assume OP lives in SoCal? It doesn't need any more smog... So, stop with the scooter. It can be over 50x (Frequently over 80x) worse in smog emissions than most modern and decently kept cars out there.

 

[Zenmervolt]

How many CC? In MN if its 50CC + you have to get your motorcycle endorsement.

This is NOT the case in CA. Even at 49cc, he'll need an M2 license to ride it since CA law classifies it as a motor-driven cycle.

He'll get a break on registration fees (IIRC CA law exempts motor-driven cycles from registration fees) but he'll still need to register and insure it.

just like those harley riders, not sure how they feel safe doing it in flip flops, shorts, and a tshirt is beyond me....at least most of us crotch rocket riders wear gear.

Eh, my experience has been different. While a lot of Harley riders avoid helmets for reasons I will never understand, I see a far, far, far greater percentage of sportbike riders in shorts/t-shirt/sandals. But I don't think that's bike choice so much as the tendency of young people to think they're invincible and young people don't usually ride cruisers.

Scooter riders, however, seem to pretty much universally ignore even moderately decent gear. I mean, at the very least a mesh jacket, jeans, and sneakers would be better but I think most people just see scooters as "cute" and "non-threatening" so they don't understand the risk.

Also, I think that people don't understand that the highway on a motorcycle is much, much, much safer than city streets because there are fewer opportunities to be blindsided on a highway. Most motorcycle accidents are relatively low-speed affairs. As much as we hear about the big crashes on the news, the fact is that you're much more likely to have some idiot pull out in front of you on a 30 mph city street. I think the scooter people just think that low-speed equals safe.

ZV

 

[Ns1]

Why does the OP want a scooter if they ride a bicycle daily? Bicycle is better for you and for the environment. Scooters are almost guaranteed to have no emission controls and be pretty bad for the environment. I assume OP lives in SoCal? It doesn't need any more smog... So, stop with the scooter. It can be over 50x (Frequently over 80x) worse in smog emissions than most modern and decently kept cars out there.

During my lunch hour, a round trip to my house (3 miles each way) is about 60 minutes of "work" - 20 minutes each way + 20 minutes to shower/change.

With a scooter, that time is cut down to some 15 minutes.

 

[ViviTheMage]

This is NOT the case in CA. Even at 49cc, he'll need an M2 license to ride it since CA law classifies it as a motor-driven cycle.

He'll get a break on registration fees (IIRC CA law exempts motor-driven cycles from registration fees) but he'll still need to register and insure it.



Eh, my experience has been different. While a lot of Harley riders avoid helmets for reasons I will never understand, I see a far, far, far greater percentage of sportbike riders in shorts/t-shirt/sandals. But I don't think that's bike choice so much as the tendency of young people to think they're invincible and young people don't usually ride cruisers.

Scooter riders, however, seem to pretty much universally ignore even moderately decent gear. I mean, at the very least a mesh jacket, jeans, and sneakers would be better but I think most people just see scooters as "cute" and "non-threatening" so they don't understand the risk.

Also, I think that people don't understand that the highway on a motorcycle is much, much, much safer than city streets because there are fewer opportunities to be blindsided on a highway. Most motorcycle accidents are relatively low-speed affairs. As much as we hear about the big crashes on the news, the fact is that you're much more likely to have some idiot pull out in front of you on a 30 mph city street. I think the scooter people just think that low-speed equals safe.

ZV

Looks like it said M1, not M2, whatever the difference is! In MN we just have a single endorsement for anything above 49cc.

In MN you can't ride year round, so you get waves of people in the summer who start riding, and around here, i mostly see the harley type riders wearing the least amount of gear...we have very few scotters, except in the cities/campus, and yes, they might as well be naked on those things.

 

[Ns1]

After loads of research I am in agreement with ZV

You do not have to take the MSF course if you are 21 or older in California. People highly recommend it, but you don't need it. Get your permit at the DMV, then go back to the DMV and take the driving test. All you need is any scooter or motocycle.

I got my M1 license riding a 50cc Honda Metro. The cone/weaving/circling/etc exercises were a joke. Several parts of the driving test are waived automatically (shifting exercises).

Taking the exam at the DMV is a lot cheaper financially, and faster. The MSF course can be expensive. However, you do learn a LOT at the MSF course, both in the classroom and on the road experience.

If you ARE UNDER 21, then you do need to take the MSF course.

I can tell you for a fact that in order to operate a motor-driven cycle (aka "scooter") you'll need:

1. M1 endorsement on your driver's license
2. The motor-driven cycle needs to be registered and license plates put on
3. Proof of financial responsibility
4. Safety helmet during operation

The definitions here are definitions taken directly from the California Vehicle Code - CLICK HERE

Definition of a "motorized scooter":

Quote from: "V.C. Section 407.5"

407.5. (a) A "motorized scooter" is any two-wheeled device that has handlebars, has a floorboard that is designed to be stood upon when riding, and is powered by an electric motor. This device may also have a driver seat that does not interfere with the ability of the rider to stand and ride and may also be designed to be powered by human propulsion. For purposes of this section, an electric personal assistive mobility device, as defined in Section 313, a motorcycle, as defined in Section 400, a motor-driven cycle, as defined in Section 405, or a motorized bicycle or moped, as defined in Section 406, is not a motorized scooter.

(b) A device meeting the definition in subdivision (a) that is powered by a source other than electrical power is also a motorized scooter.


The most obvious reason why a Honda Metropolitan is NOT a motorized scooter is because it is not designed to be stood upon when riding. It is designed for the rider to SIT.

Examples of motorized scooters are:

Segways


Go-Peds (either electric or gas powered)


We call the Honda Metropolitan a "scooter" but that term is incorrect. Technically, according to the California Vehicle Code, they are classified as "motor-driven cycles". I call my gf's Metropolitan a "scooter" when talking to an average joe because it's a slang term, and easily understood.

Quote from: "V.C. Section 405"

405. A "motor-driven cycle" is any motorcycle with a motor that displaces less than 150 cubic centimeters. A motor-driven cycle does not include a motorized bicycle, as defined in Section 406.


Definition of a "motorcycle":

Quote from: "V.C. Section 400"

400. (a) A "motorcycle" is any motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider, designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground, and weighing less than 1,500 pounds.

(b) A motor vehicle that has four wheels in contact with the ground, two of which are a functional part of a sidecar, is a motorcycle if the vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).

(c) A motor vehicle that is electrically powered, has a maximum speed of 45 miles per hour, and weighs less than 2,500 pounds, is a motorcycle if the vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).

(d) A farm tractor is not a motorcycle.

(e) A three-wheeled motor vehicle that otherwise meets the requirements of subdivision (a), has a partially or completely enclosed seating area for the driver and passenger, is used by local public agencies for the enforcement of parking control provisions, and is operated at slow speeds on public streets, is not a motorcycle. However, a motor vehicle described in this subdivision shall comply with the applicable sections of this code imposing equipment installation requirements on motorcycles.


Long story short, Metros and anything similar (Yamaha Vino, Zuma, etc.) are "motor-driven cycles", which are basically "motorcycles" with engines less than 150ccs in displacement. An M-1 license is required to operate any motorcycle or motor-driven cycle.

Hell there's even a picture of the scooter right above the text "motor driven cycles"

ugh.


So, helmet recommendations?

 

[TridenT]

During my lunch hour, a round trip to my house (3 miles each way) is about 60 minutes of "work" - 20 minutes each way + 20 minutes to shower/change.

With a scooter, that time is cut down to some 15 minutes.

Maybe if you rode that bike more then it wouldn't take you 20 minutes to do 3 miles. That's a pretty bad pace. A runner could do better.

But, whatever. Make up excuses.

 

[Ns1]

Maybe if you rode that bike more then it wouldn't take you 20 minutes to do 3 miles. That's a pretty bad pace. A runner could do better.

But, whatever. Make up excuses.

I ride ~17mph but I got stoplights along the way, bringing my average down to 10-12mph. This is a completely irrelevant point cuz I would still be out the 20 minutes I need to shower/change regardless of speed.

 

[tortoise]

You will probably regret NOT selecting at least a 125cc scooter.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Yes, you will, get a 125 or 150 at least...you get basically the same MPG.

 

[TridenT]

I ride ~17mph but I got stoplights along the way, bringing my average down to 10-12mph. This is a completely irrelevant point cuz I would still be out the 20 minutes I need to shower/change regardless of speed.

I don't shower/change after my bike rides (even in the hot). I smell and look fine. :awe: I even get compliments! I really don't see how you could be out there, sitting for close to half of the time (apparently) and build up a huge sweat.

 

[Ns1]

I don't shower/change after my bike rides (even in the hot). I smell and look fine. :awe: I even get compliments! I really don't see how you could be out there, sitting for close to half of the time (apparently) and build up a huge sweat.

You = kid in school wearing whatever
Me = adult at work wearing business casual

Contrary to your assumptions, I actually haul ass on my bike when moving and thus sweat like a pig, esp. on 100' days like today.

 

[JulesMaximus]

You = kid in school wearing whatever
Me = adult at work wearing business casual

Contrary to your assumptions, I actually haul ass on my bike when moving and thus sweat like a pig, esp. on 100' days like today.

Same here. I used to commute 10 miles each way by bicycle in hilly north county San Diego with a nice climb right before I got to the office. I would cool off at my desk for 15 minutes and then take a shower and change. My best times were under an hour... maybe 50 minutes or so and that includes stopping at stop lights.

Sitting on a motorcycle in stop and go traffic on a hot day is also a sweat factory. Add gear plus the hot ambient temperature and the heat pouring off the engine of the bike it can get pretty uncomfortable.

 

[boomhower]

You can get by without an MSF course. In NC you wouldn't need any kind of drivers license, registration or insurance to ride that thing on the roads. 99% of those riding them around here are those that have lost their license due to a DWI. (we call them drunkercycles) A fair percentage of those drive drunk pretty often and are pretty rarely in wrecks. So if a drunk can ride and not get in a wreck I'd say you can make it alright without a class. With my given employment, if they wreck I know. Particularly if it's a bad one.

 

[TridenT]

You can get by without an MSF course. In NC you wouldn't need any kind of drivers license, registration or insurance to ride that thing on the roads. 99% of those riding them around here are those that have lost their license due to a DWI. (we call them drunkercycles) A fair percentage of those drive drunk pretty often and are pretty rarely in wrecks. So if a drunk can ride and not get in a wreck I'd say you can make it alright without a class. With my given employment, if they wreck I know. Particularly if it's a bad one.

Bad advice. D: :thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

Realize who you're getting your advice from, bro! He's boomhower! He just stands at a fence and drinks beer all day!

 

[OVerLoRDI]

Or keep your man card and get a real motorcycle, just a thought

I don't know what the max speed of that little guy is, but even getting knocked off at 25-30 mph is incredibly rough. At a minimum get some solid boots, gloves, helmet and wear long pants and shirt/jacket. Jeans are like paper at any real speed and will shred instantly. Just imagine how awesome it is to slide on pavement at 25-30 mph.

 

[JulesMaximus]

You can get by without an MSF course. In NC you wouldn't need any kind of drivers license, registration or insurance to ride that thing on the roads. 99% of those riding them around here are those that have lost their license due to a DWI. (we call them drunkercycles) A fair percentage of those drive drunk pretty often and are pretty rarely in wrecks. So if a drunk can ride and not get in a wreck I'd say you can make it alright without a class. With my given employment, if they wreck I know. Particularly if it's a bad one.

Wow... that really is the worst advice ever.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Looks like it said M1, not M2, whatever the difference is!

Yup, I fat-fingered that.

M2 is basically a moped-only license. When I was growing up in Ohio there was something similar but you could get it at 14. So when I was 14 I got my moped license and a moped and rode that around quite a bit until I got my license two years later.

ZV

 

[T2urtle]

I really wish they FORCE all scooters to least take the MSF and get an M endorsement, its just overall safer for EVERYONE.

In my state, IL, any idiot with cash money can jump on a 49cc scooter and go. They just need to register it and insure it. None of them use signals, if they do its always on. They dont gear up at all. They ride like people SHOULD see them. They also ride on main roads and cause traffic, they are only allowed on 35mph or slower streets (mainly side streets). Good thing is they normally just junk them when their carb cloggs up.

I even got a couple of chuckles as some 150cc ones tried to race me in my SV650.

 

[_Rick_]

They also ride on main roads and cause traffic

wat?

Pretty sure, they reduce traffic by not taking a car.

 

[T2urtle]

wat?

Pretty sure, they reduce traffic by not taking a car.

Scooter are like 40mph mac, those 49cc guys. On a 40/45 mph road they make traffic as they don't accelerate fast enough. They are not allowed on main roads here but they do it all the time. They need to stay on small 25 mph road