About those jobs Trump is going to bring back from China...

[Sonikku]

There was some socialist who ran on a platform of affordable higher ed so that at least future generations won't be as useless and deplorable, but your peers don't care much for that edumacating.

What do you think this is, socialist GERMANY?!

Better America bring foreigners in to do jobs than taxpayers foot the bill to get their own citizens the skills needed to do said jobs.

 

[Jhhnn]

wut? none of those failures square with what actually won things for the republicans. The oldest-ever elected president that offers nothing but a regressive, fascist vision for centralized power and government on everybody's front door--that is actually how some people voted.

I do hold the democrats at large to blame for putting forth such shitty leadership post-Obama, but voters chose the worst possible option in the history of this nation because...spite? Spite isn't the fault of the democrats, it's the fault of a concentrated effort to empower the ill-informed into believing that their absolute worst-interest is somehow in their best interest.

Spite? You betcha! It's the soul of Trumpism. They don't mind getting screwed just so long as the "Others" get screwed harder. They're practically begging for it & Repubs (including Trump) intend to deliver.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Just wait until the robots unionize....

Johnny 5 can be their union rep. They can call themselves the Amalgamated Not Quite Human Robotics Assembly Workers and Welders of America Union. If you think that name is too long take a look at what the UAW has turned into.

 

[Jaskalas]

wut? none of those failures square with what actually won things for the republicans.

Yes, it does.
A candidate who challenged him in age, focused on attacking him while letting his "salvation" for our economic crisis ring louder.
There was only one candidate for hope and change in 2016, because the election coverage only personally savaged Trump.
They let him pass on the actual issues. Few people cared how he grabs them if he's going to save them.

Next time around it needs to be someone like Obama cria 2008 going up against him, but this time trashing him on the issues.
And they better not half-ass it either. Solutions to this situation are not some middling compromise that gets us nowhere.
$15 minimum wage doesn't stop what's coming, per the OP. The dream, the push, the activism, needs to reach beyond wages.

How does one "solve" automation, and the growing labor crisis?
Answer that to win the voters.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yes, it does.
A candidate who challenged him in age, focused on attacking him while letting his "salvation" for our economic crisis ring louder.
There was only one candidate for hope and change in 2016, because the election coverage only personally savaged Trump.
They let him pass on the actual issues. Few people cared how he grabs them if he's going to save them.

That's highly inaccurate. Every attempt to drag him into addressing real issues was simply overwhelmed by bullshit about Hillary. Her policy positions are well documented & detailed on her website. Yes we can & stronger together didn't have a prayer against the slime & the spite.

Next time around it needs to be someone like Obama cria 2008 going up against him, but this time trashing him on the issues.
And they better not half-ass it either. Solutions to this situation are not some middling compromise that gets us nowhere.
$15 minimum wage doesn't stop what's coming, per the OP. The dream, the push, the activism, needs to reach beyond wages.

How does one "solve" automation, and the growing labor crisis?
Answer that to win the voters.

Trump voters do not see automation as the issue, at all. Period. It's all about offshoring, illegals stealing jobs, immoral moochers dragging them down & otherizing non-white groups. It's about John Galt fantasies, rugged individualism & the dog eat dog attitude that only the hyper rich can really afford.

 

[Puffnstuff]

How does one "solve" automation, and the growing labor crisis?

Automation has been in full swing for decades now and its only going to continue where robotics are more cost effective to do the work. A company is in no way obligated to give you a job when they can perform the work saving your pay and benefit costs by installing a robot to do it. This is exactly why people need to stop complaining and take some proactive steps like get a degree in an in demand field.

 

[Jhhnn]

Automation has been in full swing for decades now and its only going to continue where robotics are more cost effective to do the work. A company is in no way obligated to give you a job when they can perform the work saving your pay and benefit costs by installing a robot to do it. This is exactly why people need to stop complaining and take some proactive steps like get a degree in an in demand field.

Which works for everybody how, exactly?

It doesn't, other than in conservative fantasy land.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

There was some socialist who ran on a platform of affordable higher ed so that at least future generations won't be as useless and deplorable, but your peers don't care much for that edumacating.

Too bad that education is still meaningless to most jobs available. Very few jobs can't be automated. Electricians and plumbers will be replaced by robots later than B.S.-holding pipetting lab monkeys.

Which works for everybody how, exactly?

It doesn't, other than in conservative fantasy land.

The real fantasy land is a model of government which pays older generations on an assumption of endless population growth of younger tax payers. Eugenics/birth control is the only real solution.

 

[Jhhnn]

The real fantasy land is a model of government which pays older generations on an assumption of endless population growth of younger tax payers. Eugenics/birth control is the only real solution.

Apparently your fantasy is that we actually do things that way.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Apparently your fantasy is that we actually do things that way.

It's pretty simple. Free birth control for anyone that wants it, and no child support/tax benefits past your first child. Free prenatal screening as well to minimized the number of children born defective. Sperm donors are granted immunity from child support liability, and the government pays the 95th percentile of intelligent people to jack off regularly/donate eggs. If you can't afford to take care of your child, the state takes custody and adopts them into a more capable family. If you continue to have children, you are sent to prison, but may have the sentence commuted if you volunteer to have yourself sterilized. We should be downsizing as quickly as possible.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's pretty simple. Free birth control for anyone that wants it, and no child support/tax benefits past your first child. Free prenatal screening as well to minimized the number of children born defective. Sperm donors are granted immunity from child support liability, and the government pays the 95th percentile of intelligent people to jack off regularly/donate eggs. If you can't afford to take care of your child, the state takes custody and adopts them into a more capable family. If you continue to have children, you are sent to prison, but may have the sentence commuted if you volunteer to have yourself sterilized. We should be downsizing as quickly as possible.

Yes, yes- that's your usual spew... which has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Which works for everybody how, exactly?

It doesn't, other than in conservative fantasy land.

Those who are perceived to be more valuable get the jobs and those who aren't get the leftovers. You can cry all day long over it but the truth is go to school and get a degree in an in demand field and get a decent job. This is the 21st century so you can either sink or swim in it.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Yes, yes- that's your usual spew... which has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

It has everything to do with it. We have 350 million Americans. By definition, nearly half of them have double-digit IQs. Do you think that many of those people are capable of earning PhDs and doing difficult, theoretical research for the rest of their lives while robots do all the menial work? Total fantasy unless you create a smarter American.

 

[Jhhnn]

It has everything to do with it. We have 350 million Americans. By definition, nearly half of them have double-digit IQs. Do you think that many of those people are capable of earning PhDs and doing difficult, theoretical research for the rest of their lives while robots do all the menial work? Total fantasy unless you create a smarter American.

And now, deeper into false attribution, diversion & fantasy. What you suggest is to exacerbate the demographic bulge problem of the boomers.

Which has nothing to do with Trump bringing jobs back from China.

 

[Jhhnn]

Those who are perceived to be more valuable get the jobs and those who aren't get the leftovers. You can cry all day long over it but the truth is go to school and get a degree in an in demand field and get a decent job. This is the 21st century so you can either sink or swim in it.

And if everybody does that then there will be an over supply of qualified applicants & wage depression in those fields. You can't put 10 pounds of your bullshit into a 5 pound box.

But do go on, you sweet little social Darwinist, you.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

And now, deeper into false attribution, diversion & fantasy. What you suggest is to exacerbate the demographic bulge problem of the boomers.

Which has nothing to do with Trump bringing jobs back from China.

My part on college education was addressed to what others in the thread have said, not you, fair enough.

Exacerbate though?

Yeah, that giant bulge of worthless, value-spent retirees isn't a cause for concern at all when it's the younger generation threatened by robots. Everyone knows this (especially Baby Boomers).

I never said that Trump would bring back jobs, he's full of shit and the primary reason I didn't vote for him is because I would never vote for a protectionist, class-warfare-waging rabble-rouser. Free trade was more or less the one good quality that Republicans had over Democrats, and now they've lost that. The point is that automation is going to put the squeeze on a significant portion of the population incapable of working non-automatable jobs, and eugenics is the only viable solution that I can see.

 

[Puffnstuff]

And if everybody does that then there will be an over supply of qualified applicants & wage depression in those fields. You can't put 10 pounds of your bullshit into a 5 pound box.

But do go on, you sweet little social Darwinist, you.

Hey sunshine you can believe whatever you like while reality flourishes all around you.

 

[Jhhnn]

My part on college education was addressed to what others in the thread have said, not you, fair enough.

Exacerbate though?

Yeah, that giant bulge of worthless, value-spent retirees isn't a cause for concern at all when it's the younger generation threatened by robots. Everyone knows this (especially Baby Boomers).

I never said that Trump would bring back jobs, he's full of shit and the primary reason I didn't vote for him is because I would never vote for a protectionist, class-warfare-waging rabble-rouser. Free trade was more or less the one good quality that Republicans had over Democrats, and now they've lost that. The point is that automation is going to put the squeeze on a significant portion of the population incapable of working non-automatable jobs, and eugenics is the only viable solution that I can see.

Automation & income shifting to the tippy-top threatens not just the livelihoods of younger workers but the welfare of all of us who aren't among the financial elite.

Robots don't pay taxes & with Repubs running things neither will their owners. That undercuts our ability to compensate for income loss entirely. That's true no matter how many people exist.

 

[Jhhnn]

Hey sunshine you can believe whatever you like while reality flourishes all around you.

Pure denial. Explain that to Trump voters, OK?

 

[Jaskalas]

The point is that automation is going to put the squeeze on a significant portion of the population incapable of working non-automatable jobs, and eugenics is the only viable solution that I can see.

$1,000 / month, $2.6 trillion. Easily within today's $4 trillion budget.
Remove employment from base liquidity value, people keep food, shelter, and the economy keeps on ticking.
All we need do is maintain taxation and ensure it follows production as producers continue to drop workers.

Certainly you'd admit that 65% of the budget is viable.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Automation & income shifting to the tippy-top threatens not just the livelihoods of younger workers but the welfare of all of us who aren't among the financial elite.

Robots don't pay taxes & with Repubs running things neither will their owners. That undercuts our ability to compensate for income loss entirely. That's true no matter how many people exist.

Doesn't threaten you at all as long as the government doesn't go bankrupt and try cancelling all promised pensions/benefits (aka won't happen, astronomical disaster aside).

Automation benefits everyone. We don't have to perform as much work, we don't have to perform as dangerous of work, and widgets are produced more cheaply for consumers to buy. The problem is that while most goods are disposable when produced in excess, human life is not. The government currently incentivizes production of negative-value assets (low-tier human labor), and that's a massive problem we have to deal with. The underclasses are digging their own graves multiplying like rats.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

$1,000 / month, $2.6 trillion. Easily within today's $4 trillion budget.
Remove employment from base liquidity value, people keep food, shelter, and the economy keeps on ticking.
All we need do is maintain taxation and ensure it follows production as producers continue to drop workers.

Certainly you'd admit that 65% of the budget is viable.

$12k/yr is livable? I mean, technically yeah it should be, but good luck getting the "Everyone has a right to healthcare until death" crowd on board.

 

[Jaskalas]

$12k/yr is livable? I mean, technically yeah it should be, but good luck getting the "Everyone has a right to healthcare until death" crowd on board.

Probably a good chunk of the remaining budget for healthcare, and additional taxes raised for that purpose.
Also, that's per person. Ergo couples get $24k/yr. Let's not forget automation helps suppress / bring down prices.
We could work to address the single largest expense, housing. Though I suppose healthcare attempts to rival that.

There's no question, it's going to take a very thorough plan, and a radical change from life as we've known it.
People will not understand... but it's our job to lay it out, and sell it. What choice do we have?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Probably a good chunk of the remaining budget for healthcare, and additional taxes raised for that purpose.
Also, that's per person. Ergo couples get $24k/yr. Let's not forget automation helps suppress / bring down prices.
We could work to address the single largest expense, housing. Though I suppose healthcare attempts to rival that.

There's no question, it's going to take a very thorough plan, and a radical change from life as we've known it.
People will not understand... but it's our job to lay it out, and sell it. What choice do we have?

Automation won't do much to bring down medical prices, and robots won't be doing invasive surgery for quite a while. If anything it just gives pharma companies another thing to patent.

At $12k/yr, how much does that leave after the immediate essentials? Rent and food will easily eat through half of that. One bad injury or discovery of cancer could easily eat through five years of their income. And what are they doing in the meanwhile? Just watching television, buying cheap goods, and reproducing, so that the next generation of permanent-consumers can carry the torch? There is no value in a population like that.

The other choice is to subject humans to the laws of supply and demand and not give them handouts just because their religion or sloth prevented them from obtaining abortions. Get it out of peoples' heads that there's some kind of intrinsic right to create new people.

 

[Jhhnn]

$1,000 / month, $2.6 trillion. Easily within today's $4 trillion budget.
Remove employment from base liquidity value, people keep food, shelter, and the economy keeps on ticking.
All we need do is maintain taxation and ensure it follows production as producers continue to drop workers.

Certainly you'd admit that 65% of the budget is viable.

Just so long as conservatives hold to their judgemental Puritan work ethic, at least for others, they'll continue to be suckers for the Ownership Class.

Back in Jamestown, everybody had to work for the survival of the community because they were operating on a shoestring & because they were very, very inefficient at producing what they needed.

None of that is true today. The people at the top don't need us nearly as much as they once did & they control production & the job market. But they want us to believe that the people they don't have jobs for are morally inferior to those of us they still employ. White Conservatives are all over that like stink on shit. As LBJ offered-

If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket.

And yet we're all in this together, at least 99% of us, even if we refuse to see it that way. We can't all have jobs, certainly not with the technological progress of the last 200 years. There's no demand for all the stuff we could produce. But we still attach moralilty to having a job even as it's turning into something like having a unicorn.