About Joe the Plumber

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Evan
^ Let's put it this way; you're dumb as hell if you honestly believe at this point that Joe the Plumber was seriously planning and/or in the midst of purchasing a plumbing business that would gross him 250K+.

Can I borrow your crystal ball?

rofl.

But seriously, how the hell do you know his plans?

 

[First]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Evan
^ Let's put it this way; you're dumb as hell if you honestly believe at this point that Joe the Plumber was seriously planning and/or in the midst of purchasing a plumbing business that would gross him 250K+.

Can I borrow your crystal ball?

rofl.

But seriously, how the hell do you know his plans?

Like I said, dumb as hell.

He owes back taxes, isn't licensed, makes something like $40K a year, yet he's going to have a business making $250K+ sometime soon? Please, no one intelligent buys that garbage. Not to mention he was a registered Republican who was voting for McCain anyway, so no one was surprised to find out he wasn't making $250K or anywhere near that, making it a loaded question he knew the answer to (yes, your taxes will go up).

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Evan
^ Let's put it this way; you're dumb as hell if you honestly believe at this point that Joe the Plumber was seriously planning and/or in the midst of purchasing a plumbing business that would gross him 250K+.

Can I borrow your crystal ball?

rofl.

But seriously, how the hell do you know his plans?

Like I said, dumb as hell.

He owes back taxes, isn't licensed, makes something like $40K a year, yet he's going to have a business making $250K+ sometime soon? Please, no one intelligent buys that garbage.

Wait, so because he owed $1,100 in back taxes, doesn't have a plumbing license and doesnt make a ton of money means he cant find a way to purchase a plumbing business?

Originally posted by: Evan
Not to mention he was a registered Republican who was voting for McCain anyway, so no one was surprised to find out he wasn't making $250K or anywhere near that, making it a loaded question he knew the answer to (yes, your taxes will go up)

And again, he never claimed to make anywhere near $250K. He claimed he wanted to purchase a business that would make over $250,000 a year. Even Obama acknowledged that.

In any case, we all know why the libs hate Joe the Plumber. Its not because he's a liar (because he isnt) but because he brought our one of the major issues that they dont want brought up about Obama's tax plan. That he plans to raise them for businesses making over $250K

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Corbett
Wait, so because he owed $1,100 in back taxes, doesn't have a plumbing license and doesnt make a ton of money means he cant find a way to purchase a plumbing business?

Yes, it pretty much does.

 

[ModerateRepZero]

Wait, so because he owed $1,100 in back taxes, doesn't have a plumbing license and doesnt make a ton of money means he cant find a way to purchase a plumbing business?

I find it hard to believe that any reputable bank thinks Joe has a *financial* basis for being loaned enough to purchase a business that would make over 250k in sales. Joe is no different than other people dreaming of becoming millionaires or "hitting it rich" with a lottery windfall or an amazing financial investment; full of optimism, but facing steep odds.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Wait, so because he owed $1,100 in back taxes, doesn't have a plumbing license and doesnt make a ton of money means he cant find a way to purchase a plumbing business?

A plumbing business with the potential to grow to $250K? In what universe is this a likely event anytime while Obama is president? I'd love to hear his master plan frankly, because I'll change careers if it's that easy (hint: it's not).

And again, he never claimed to make anywhere near $250K. He claimed he wanted to purchase a business that would make over $250,000 a year. Even Obama acknowledged that.

He claimed he was getting ready to purchase a plumbing business that would make him over $250K, as if that were realistic for him anytime soon. How was he going to do that you imagine, since you seem to think it's reasonable? I'd love to hear this.

Though actually, he could probably do it if his book sells enough copies.

In any case, we all know why the libs hate Joe the Plumber. Its not because he's a liar (because he isnt)

rofl.

but because he brought our one of the major issues that they dont want brought up about Obama's tax plan. That he plans to raise them for businesses making over $250K

Everyone intelligent who pays attention to politics already knew this. Don't know where you have been the past year.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Evan
... Everyone intelligent ...

This lead-in appears quite frequently in your posts, presumably in an attempt to lend credence to the nonsense that follows. You need to make a better case for your arguments instead of relying on the same sophomoric hyperbole over and over again.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Evan
... Everyone intelligent ...

This lead-in appears quite frequently in your posts, presumably in an attempt to lend credence to the nonsense that follows. You need to make a better case for your arguments instead of relying on the same sophomoric hyperbole over and over again.

See previous post in case you're still confused.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Originally posted by: Corbett
Wait, so because he owed $1,100 in back taxes, doesn't have a plumbing license and doesnt make a ton of money means he cant find a way to purchase a plumbing business?

And again, he never claimed to make anywhere near $250K. He claimed he wanted to purchase a business that would make over $250,000 a year. Even Obama acknowledged that.

Let me remind you of the transcript you quoted in this thread: "Joe: I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes about $250,000 ? $270-$280,000 a year." The key words in that sentence are "getting ready to." When you claim to be getting ready to do something, the implied timeframe is short-term. No one says, "We're getting ready to buy a business ten years from now." So Joe the Plumber represented himself as someone who could buy a plumbing business turning a $270,000+ profit in the near term (also important, the word profit; businesses are taxed on profit, so that's money made over cost of materials and the like).

Now the problem is that someone in Joe's particular financial situation, owing back taxes, not making a high wage and not licensed to own a plumbing business is unlikely to actually purchase and own a plumbing business that makes $270,000+ in profit in the near term. I could say that I'm getting ready to buy a Ferrari, but the reality of my financial situation puts that goal about as tenable as me getting drafted by the LA Lakers at starting point guard. Just because I say I intend to do something doesn't actually mean I'm in a position where I can be reasonably expected to do it. No one looking at Joe the Plumber would say that he was in a position to buy that successful plumbing business; why would he say that he was getting ready to do just that? It was a lie, pure and simple, a plant designed to exploit people's fears that Obama was going to raise taxes on people who were just like them. It was a gross misrepresentation of the truth, and Joe the Plumber deserved exactly what he got for trying to milk his time in the limelight.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Evan
^ Let's put it this way; you're dumb as hell if you honestly believe at this point that Joe the Plumber was seriously planning and/or in the midst of purchasing a plumbing business that would gross him 250K+.

And you're dumb as hell for continuing to bring that up. The point all along was that he was maimed before you had any idea whether or not he was actually in a position to buy such a business. It could be a hypothetical question for all I care: we should be allowed to ask questions - hypothetical or otherwise - without fear of such wicked reprisal, which again, has been the point all along.

"We should be allowed to ask questions" works both ways. If Joe the Plumber wants to take a very strong public position on an issue, and repeat it to anyone who will listen as if he has some special authority on the matter, others should be allowed to disagree with him and question why anyone should really care what he thinks. You call it "wicked reprisal" (was Joe the Plumber a character in "Macbeth"?), I call it people exercising the same freedom Joe did when he questioned Obama's position. It's not a one way street, there isn't just freedom to ask questions for people you agree with.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

Originally posted by: Corbett
Wait, so because he owed $1,100 in back taxes, doesn't have a plumbing license and doesnt make a ton of money means he cant find a way to purchase a plumbing business?

And again, he never claimed to make anywhere near $250K. He claimed he wanted to purchase a business that would make over $250,000 a year. Even Obama acknowledged that.

Let me remind you of the transcript you quoted in this thread: "Joe: I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes about $250,000 ? $270-$280,000 a year." The key words in that sentence are "getting ready to." When you claim to be getting ready to do something, the implied timeframe is short-term. No one says, "We're getting ready to buy a business ten years from now." So Joe the Plumber represented himself as someone who could buy a plumbing business turning a $270,000+ profit in the near term (also important, the word profit; businesses are taxed on profit, so that's money made over cost of materials and the like).

Now the problem is that someone in Joe's particular financial situation, owing back taxes, not making a high wage and not licensed to own a plumbing business is unlikely to actually purchase and own a plumbing business that makes $270,000+ in profit in the near term. I could say that I'm getting ready to buy a Ferrari, but the reality of my financial situation puts that goal about as tenable as me getting drafted by the LA Lakers at starting point guard. Just because I say I intend to do something doesn't actually mean I'm in a position where I can be reasonably expected to do it. No one looking at Joe the Plumber would say that he was in a position to buy that successful plumbing business; why would he say that he was getting ready to do just that? It was a lie, pure and simple, a plant designed to exploit people's fears that Obama was going to raise taxes on people who were just like them. It was a gross misrepresentation of the truth, and Joe the Plumber deserved exactly what he got for trying to milk his time in the limelight.

You're absolutely right about the profit bit.

To make $270,000 in profit the business would have to have a turnover of around $1 million (assuming a 25% gross profit). So was he about to buy a business worth $1 million? With a tax lien against him it is unlikely any lender would have given him that kind of cash. And if he had that kind of cash lying around why have a small tax lien against him? It really hurts your credit. Why couldn't he have paid it off?

Too many questions about Joe which do not appear to add up. McCain made a big mistake making this guy a focus of his campaign. A very poor example.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

Originally posted by: Corbett
Wait, so because he owed $1,100 in back taxes, doesn't have a plumbing license and doesnt make a ton of money means he cant find a way to purchase a plumbing business?

And again, he never claimed to make anywhere near $250K. He claimed he wanted to purchase a business that would make over $250,000 a year. Even Obama acknowledged that.

Let me remind you of the transcript you quoted in this thread: "Joe: I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes about $250,000 ? $270-$280,000 a year." The key words in that sentence are "getting ready to." When you claim to be getting ready to do something, the implied timeframe is short-term. No one says, "We're getting ready to buy a business ten years from now." So Joe the Plumber represented himself as someone who could buy a plumbing business turning a $270,000+ profit in the near term (also important, the word profit; businesses are taxed on profit, so that's money made over cost of materials and the like).

Now the problem is that someone in Joe's particular financial situation, owing back taxes, not making a high wage and not licensed to own a plumbing business is unlikely to actually purchase and own a plumbing business that makes $270,000+ in profit in the near term. I could say that I'm getting ready to buy a Ferrari, but the reality of my financial situation puts that goal about as tenable as me getting drafted by the LA Lakers at starting point guard. Just because I say I intend to do something doesn't actually mean I'm in a position where I can be reasonably expected to do it. No one looking at Joe the Plumber would say that he was in a position to buy that successful plumbing business; why would he say that he was getting ready to do just that? It was a lie, pure and simple, a plant designed to exploit people's fears that Obama was going to raise taxes on people who were just like them. It was a gross misrepresentation of the truth, and Joe the Plumber deserved exactly what he got for trying to milk his time in the limelight.

Very well put...:thumbsup:

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Evan
^ Let's put it this way; you're dumb as hell if you honestly believe at this point that Joe the Plumber was seriously planning and/or in the midst of purchasing a plumbing business that would gross him 250K+.

And you're dumb as hell for continuing to bring that up. The point all along was that he was maimed before you had any idea whether or not he was actually in a position to buy such a business. It could be a hypothetical question for all I care: we should be allowed to ask questions - hypothetical or otherwise - without fear of such wicked reprisal, which again, has been the point all along.

"We should be allowed to ask questions" works both ways. If Joe the Plumber wants to take a very strong public position on an issue, and repeat it to anyone who will listen as if he has some special authority on the matter, others should be allowed to disagree with him and question why anyone should really care what he thinks. You call it "wicked reprisal" (was Joe the Plumber a character in "Macbeth"?), I call it people exercising the same freedom Joe did when he questioned Obama's position. It's not a one way street, there isn't just freedom to ask questions for people you agree with.

This was addressed and debunked pages ago.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Evan
^ Let's put it this way; you're dumb as hell if you honestly believe at this point that Joe the Plumber was seriously planning and/or in the midst of purchasing a plumbing business that would gross him 250K+.

And you're dumb as hell for continuing to bring that up. The point all along was that he was maimed before you had any idea whether or not he was actually in a position to buy such a business. It could be a hypothetical question for all I care: we should be allowed to ask questions - hypothetical or otherwise - without fear of such wicked reprisal, which again, has been the point all along.

"We should be allowed to ask questions" works both ways. If Joe the Plumber wants to take a very strong public position on an issue, and repeat it to anyone who will listen as if he has some special authority on the matter, others should be allowed to disagree with him and question why anyone should really care what he thinks. You call it "wicked reprisal" (was Joe the Plumber a character in "Macbeth"?), I call it people exercising the same freedom Joe did when he questioned Obama's position. It's not a one way street, there isn't just freedom to ask questions for people you agree with.

This was addressed and debunked pages ago.

It really wasn't. If you're talking about your previous posts, all they really are is a restating of the same position I responded to. Where I come from, repeating your position over and over without providing any support for it isn't call debunking, it's called bad debating. You keep using overly dramatic phrases like "wicked reprisal", "pillaging" and "destroyed" to describe the reaction to Joe the Plumber, but for the most part it was people questioning him and his position in pretty much the same way he was questioning Obama. If you want to make the point that this is somehow wrong, try doing a better job...because I'm just not seeing it.

Edit: For instance, you could start with some specifics instead of vague phrases. The best I see in your previous posts is that Joe the Plumber was horrifically attacked by people finding out whether his name was in fact "Joe", and whether or not he was in fact a plumber. Give me a break, he was billed as "Joe the Plumber", finding out the story behind that isn't an attack, it's basic common sense. You argue that his name and his license aren't a big deal, so the fact that you ALSO treat the revelation of those two things as some horrible attack is counter-intuitive.

Edit 2: It's also worth noting that the big deal about Joe the Plumber was initially (and mostly) made by the right-wing commentators (including those right here), turning him into an American folk hero who dared to stand up to the man the "liberal media" was allegedly fawning over. The right turned his background and profession into an issue, beyond the position he stated, so it seems perfectly fair to try to impeach that background as part of a reasonable argument. Now that initial response may have turned the spotlight on Joe far more than he would have wanted (although he seemed to embrace it pretty quickly), but your attempts to "blame" one side for this don't make a lot of sense. Especially since Joe initially represented himself to Obama in a less than truthful way.