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about input lag

cmdrdredd

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Thinking about input lag I was wondering if I had things figured out in regard to how vsync affects it.

vsync off = no input lag but can cause screen tearing
vsync on = heavy input lag but no screen tearing. fps can drop to 30 and stutter badly
vsync on + triple buffering forced (D3D Overrider) = no screen tearing and some input lag. no heavy fps drop
adaptive vsync = some tearing possible and some input lag possible (maybe same as vsync alone?)

Is this pretty accurate?

So what do you think is worse? Input lag or screen tearing?
 
I think Screen Tearing is worst.

Some games do not get Screen Tearing with it Disabled, others get it. So it seems best just trying to find the best setting in each game.
 
I don't really notice input lag. I definitely notice screen tearing. Screen tearing completely defeats the purpose of having a 120Hz monitor for me, as it takes the buttery smooth image and makes it look all nasty when it tears.
 
depends on the game

with a competitive shooter, input lag is 10x worse than screen tearing

if its a casual rpg then screen tearing is the greater evil
 
Well, how do you combat input lag? Run with vsync off and just let the screen do whatever it's gonna do?

I don't play many games online but when I do occasionally play a FPS game online, I turn vsync off.
 
cmdrdredd said:
Thinking about input lag I was wondering if I had things figured out in regard to how vsync affects it.

vsync off = no input lag but can cause screen tearing
Click to expand...
You won't have to wait for another less-than-a-frame, but your monitor has innate lag, and this can vary by quite a bit. Vsync can add a bit to average input lag, but a monitor with tons of DSP going on can have high input lag regardless of vsync setting.

vsync on = heavy input lag but no screen tearing. fps can drop to 30 and stutter badly
Click to expand...
Depends on driver and game. Stuttering is usually a sign of not using triple-buffering. You can forc eit on, and should.

adaptive vsync = some tearing possible and some input lag possible (maybe same as vsync alone?)
Click to expand...
Adaptive vsync is basically the same as no vsync. It's a purely marketing feature, IMO. If tearing bothers you, tearing at 58FPS but not at 60 FPS is not much help.

So what do you think is worse? Input lag or screen tearing?
Click to expand...
Tearing. You can always buy a low input lag 120Hz monitor, a mouse with 500-1000Hz polling, and pretty much fix the input lag problem.
 
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There are only 2 relevant questions

Are you playing to win?

Are you leisurely look at the pretty colors?

Settings are based on those 2 criteria.

The only crossover is when high texture settings make the enemy uniform look more obvious.
 
I hate both equally. I think adaptive vsync is pointless, but frame rate limiter isn't.

If there was some way that input lag from vsync enabled and tearing from vsync disabled could be halved at the same time, then that would be nice.
 
I'll take screen tearing over input lag any day of the week.

Input lag annoys the crap out of me. When I turn on Vsync in any game, the mouse movement just feels "off". Anytime my cursor movement isn't 1:1 with my mouse movement then I can't play it.

If a little screen tearing is what I have to pay for instantaneous input response, then I'll take it.
 
LessThanDan said:
I'll take screen tearing over input lag any day of the week.

Input lag annoys the crap out of me. When I turn on Vsync in any game, the mouse movement just feels "off". Anytime my cursor movement isn't 1:1 with my mouse movement then I can't play it.

If a little screen tearing is what I have to pay for instantaneous input response, then I'll take it.
Click to expand...

Um... don't wanna blow your mind, but the cursor never moves 1:1 with the mouse. ^_^
 
I can't stand input lag, it makes aiming accurately significantly harder or at least slower, whereas tearing doesn't particuarly bother me, so I force vsync off all the time.

These are subjective things though, so it's going to be different for others, however I would suggest if you're trying to compete in games at a high level that the lag and low frame rate associated with vsync is going to hold you back.
 
cmdrdredd said:
Thinking about input lag I was wondering if I had things figured out in regard to how vsync affects it.

vsync off = no input lag but can cause screen tearing
vsync on = heavy input lag but no screen tearing. fps can drop to 30 and stutter badly
vsync on + triple buffering forced (D3D Overrider) = no screen tearing and some input lag. no heavy fps drop
adaptive vsync = some tearing possible and some input lag possible (maybe same as vsync alone?)

Is this pretty accurate?

So what do you think is worse? Input lag or screen tearing?
Click to expand...
cmdedredd: First Impressive setup. Second: What monitor are you using? Third: What about your ISP? I recently noticed my upload speeds were limited to 2 megs even though I have a Comcast package with 30megs down, 6 up. Well, I went into my router setup (D-Link 655) and found the Uplink max box checked and limited to 2000kps. Unchecked it and manually set to 7000kps. Now on speakeasy speed test I get 35 megs down and @6.1 megs up.

I don't mean to stray from your topic but with so much online gaming being done, I wonder if our obsession with our video card hardware and lag ( me too!😉) is masking the fact that we need to check the pipeline from our computer to our router to our modem for internet lag or limitations.
 
Biggest thing that affects input lag with vsync on is Maximum pre-rendered frames setting. (not sure what it is on AMD cards.)
Drop this to something low like 1 from default of 3 and you should see nice decrease in input lag.
 
I've never heard of triple buffering. How can i go about trying it? I can't stand gaming without vsynch myself and would welcome improved performance if triple buffering can offer it.
 
LessThanDan said:
any[/i] game, the mouse movement just feels "off"
Click to expand...
It is interesting how triple buffered Vysnc still slightly bothers me but dropping to a monitor with 10ms less input delay doesn't change anything. It makes me think triple buffering isn't working correctly. Even when I set prerendered frames to 0, it doesn't seem to change anything.

Um... don't wanna blow your mind, but the cursor never moves 1:1 with the mouse.
Click to expand...
The term 1:1 can sometimes be misinterpreted to be 1 input from mouse equals one pixel turned in a 3d engine. It simply refers to 1 mouse input = 1 game movement; the game movement needs to always be the same from 1 mouse input (no forms of acceleration). It's impressive and sad how many games don't have 1:1 mouse movement.

Often times I hear the question asked of what sensitivity/dpi combo for one input to equals one pixel game movement. From the perspective of a modern 3d game engine, there is no answer. A pixel in the center might move exactly one "unit" over, but near the edge of the frame it might be closer to 10 units. Crank up your FOV and the effect is obvious.
 
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