Abortion thread: 11-6-03 New Anti-abortion initiatives may trigger election battle

[dmcowen674]

11-6-2003 Abortion Bill May Trigger Election Battle

While energizing one's political base is important, "the other side of it is you don't want to stir up the base of the opposition," said James Thurber, a political scientist at American University.

11-5-2003 Anti-abortion lawmakers renew fight against abortion

Anti-abortion lawmakers are preparing to renew their fight to halt sales of the abortion pill RU-486
The legislation was to be introduced the day after President Bush (news - web sites) signed into law a ban on a procedure called partial-birth abortion by its opponents.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had started a Revolution thread a little while back but can't find it. This is just another spark leading to the eventual flame out. The race continues to which issue will do it first.

 

[Lucky]

nebraska fed. judge put restraining order on the partial birth law.

 

[railer]

Good. These Bible thumping freaks are just as nutty and brainwashed as the 9/11 hijackers. Leave people alone and let them make their own decisions about their own lives.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
11-5-2003 Anti-abortion lawmakers renew fight against abortion

Anti-abortion lawmakers are preparing to renew their fight to halt sales of the abortion pill RU-486
The legislation was to be introduced the day after President Bush (news - web sites) signed into law a ban on a procedure called partial-birth abortion by its opponents.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had started a Revolution thread a little while back but can't find it. This is just another spark leading to the eventual flame out. The race continues to which issue will do it first.

Dave, sometimes I wonder if you really want the bible-thumping fundies to go on a bloody rampage. It's like you want it so bad.

 

[DealMonkey]

dp :|

 

[LunarRay]

DMonkey,
think of it as anti urban renewal.

 

[Moonbeam]

More madness from the pro-kill-women-in-the-alley crowd.

 

[AEB]

hey im cool with abortion because if the fetus isnt seen as living i can throw my g/f down a flight of stairs if she is pregnan.at worse i would get attempted murder not too shabby to skimp on a life of child support

 

[railer]

Nice dumb analogy AEB.

OOOH OOOH I got one!!!

uh, since them abortions is legal n stuff, i can run into a nursery and stomp on all the babies i wants to and nobody can arrest me fer it. that's the zact same ting as abortion yuk yuk.

Back to your Bible study group you mindless sheep. Think of more ways that you might try to impose your will unto people.

 

[0roo0roo]

now all the naderites will realize theres a difference between democrats and republicans. screw you nader.
just more of the right wing imposing their beliefs on others through government.

 

[dmcowen674]

11-6-2003 Abortion Bill May Trigger Election Battle

President Bush (news - web sites)'s signing of a ban on a certain type of abortion helps him shore up re-election support within his party's conservative core. It also appears to be triggering some unintended political consequences, from mobilizing abortion-rights activists, who consider it the first attack on the 1973 Supreme Court ruling that legalized abortion, to setting up a divisive election-year battle over the court's next vacancy.

While energizing one's political base is important, "the other side of it is you don't want to stir up the base of the opposition," said James Thurber, a political scientist at American University.

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
now all the naderites will realize theres a difference between democrats and republicans. screw you nader.
just more of the right wing imposing their beliefs on others through government.

Nader doesn't claim that the Democrats = Republicans. He says they are extremely similar in a multitude ways, but not identical, which doesn't justify the fact that they are usually portrayed as two extremes of a political continuum.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: AEB
hey im cool with abortion because if the fetus isnt seen as living i can throw my g/f down a flight of stairs if she is pregnan.at worse i would get attempted murder not too shabby to skimp on a life of child support

You must be a Republican Biblebeater, cause you're too stupid to be a human being.

Partial birth abortions are performed because the life of the woman is in danger. Guess you'd rather see both the woman and the child die, eh? Must be the will of God when they die! Just like all the people in the WTC, we wouldn't have been allowed to prevent it if we could, because we'd interfere with the will of the Almighty!

Religious freaks suck.

 

[Insane3D]

2 more judges block abortion law

 

[bulldawg]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: AEB
hey im cool with abortion because if the fetus isnt seen as living i can throw my g/f down a flight of stairs if she is pregnan.at worse i would get attempted murder not too shabby to skimp on a life of child support

You must be a Republican Biblebeater, cause you're too stupid to be a human being.

Partial birth abortions are performed because the life of the woman is in danger. Guess you'd rather see both the woman and the child die, eh? Must be the will of God when they die! Just like all the people in the WTC, we wouldn't have been allowed to prevent it if we could, because we'd interfere with the will of the Almighty!

Religious freaks suck.

In this procedure, aren't the head and shoulders of the baby delivered and then the abortion is performed? Seems that would be the hardest part to deliver. If that is the case, how can the rest of the baby's delivery be a danger to the mother?

 

[SViscusi]

Originally posted by: bulldawg

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: AEB
hey im cool with abortion because if the fetus isnt seen as living i can throw my g/f down a flight of stairs if she is pregnan.at worse i would get attempted murder not too shabby to skimp on a life of child support

You must be a Republican Biblebeater, cause you're too stupid to be a human being.

Partial birth abortions are performed because the life of the woman is in danger. Guess you'd rather see both the woman and the child die, eh? Must be the will of God when they die! Just like all the people in the WTC, we wouldn't have been allowed to prevent it if we could, because we'd interfere with the will of the Almighty!

Religious freaks suck.

In this procedure, aren't the head and shoulders of the baby delivered and then the abortion is performed? Seems that would be the hardest part to deliver. If that is the case, how can the rest of the baby's delivery be a danger to the mother?

Here's some info on the procedure.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: bulldawg

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: AEB
hey im cool with abortion because if the fetus isnt seen as living i can throw my g/f down a flight of stairs if she is pregnan.at worse i would get attempted murder not too shabby to skimp on a life of child support

You must be a Republican Biblebeater, cause you're too stupid to be a human being.

Partial birth abortions are performed because the life of the woman is in danger. Guess you'd rather see both the woman and the child die, eh? Must be the will of God when they die! Just like all the people in the WTC, we wouldn't have been allowed to prevent it if we could, because we'd interfere with the will of the Almighty!

Religious freaks suck.

In this procedure, aren't the head and shoulders of the baby delivered and then the abortion is performed? Seems that would be the hardest part to deliver. If that is the case, how can the rest of the baby's delivery be a danger to the mother?

Actually all BUT the head is delivered. Then the brains are suctioned out of its skull collapsing the head then promptly tossed in the bio waste bin. Or something basically like that. But it most definitely is head last.

diagrams of procedure

CkG

 

[rufruf44]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: AEB
hey im cool with abortion because if the fetus isnt seen as living i can throw my g/f down a flight of stairs if she is pregnan.at worse i would get attempted murder not too shabby to skimp on a life of child support

You must be a Republican Biblebeater, cause you're too stupid to be a human being.

Partial birth abortions are performed because the life of the woman is in danger. Guess you'd rather see both the woman and the child die, eh? Must be the will of God when they die! Just like all the people in the WTC, we wouldn't have been allowed to prevent it if we could, because we'd interfere with the will of the Almighty!

Religious freaks suck.

I don't know about that, sniped froo CNN:
The form of abortion is not banned if it is "necessary to save the life of a mother whose life is endangered by a physical disorder, physical illness, or physical injury, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself," according to the text of the law.

Looks like they already took that into consideration when the life of the mother is at stake, its still can be performed.

The reason the doctors are filing suits is because there's no exception for the "women's health", however broad that term might be. IMO, its just a delay tactic by the pro-abortion group until they can find a better way to defeat it. But if its go to supreme court right now, the ban will probably be upheld.

edit: can't believe i mixed up pro & anti abortion

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: railer
Good. These Bible thumping freaks are just as nutty and brainwashed as the 9/11 hijackers. Leave people alone and let them make their own decisions about their own lives.

So all pro-lifers are "Bible-thumping freaks", huh? Tell that to Nat Hentoff (pro-life atheist and syndicated columnist) and these people. It is a cowardly form of debate merely to smear your opponents with false generalizations in order to avoid actually addressing the merits of their arguments.

And as for the charge that pro-lifers are "trying to force their views on others," they are merely trying to protect innocent lives, no different from the many laws preventing physical abuse of children. Most reasonable people accept the State's right to criminalize physical injury of another human being.

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: railer
Good. These Bible thumping freaks are just as nutty and brainwashed as the 9/11 hijackers. Leave people alone and let them make their own decisions about their own lives.

It's kind of funny you mention Bible thumpers, because I know of at least 3 Atheists who are against abortion...

 

[DealMonkey]

Just as I predicted, the partial-birth ban has been frozen by a NY Federal Court. I also predict that the ban will be struck down as unconstitutional, just like all attempts thus far to whittle away at Roe v Wade. Way to go conservatives! Put your religious agenda ahead of the health and well-being of women in this country!

Statement by the ACLU:

NEW YORK - Recognizing that the first-ever federal ban on safe abortion procedures is a sweeping and dangerous measure, the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York blocked its enforcement today.

"We are pleased that the court acted quickly to protect women and their doctors," said Vicki Saporta, President and CEO of the National Abortion Federation (NAF). "Allowing Congress to practice medicine without a license endangers the lives and health of women. We need to ensure that medical decisions are made by experienced and qualified medical professionals. Thankfully, the court understood the gravity of the situation and stopped this law from taking effect."

NAF is represented by the American Civil Liberties Union in its challenge to the so-called "Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003" recently enacted by Congress.

Since 1995, similar bans on safe abortion procedures have been enacted in more than half the states and challenged in courts throughout the country. Courts considering these laws -- including the United States Supreme Court just three years ago -- have consistently struck down the bans because they prohibit a range of safe abortion procedures used well before fetal viability and they endanger women?s health.

"Today?s ruling confirms that it was reprehensible for lawmakers to push through a ban that will harm women in need of critical medical care," said Louise Melling, Director of the ACLU Reproductive Freedom Project. "By refusing to include a health exception, lawmakers demonstrated that they are willing to trade women?s health and to flout the Constitution for political gain."

NAF is the professional association of abortion providers in the United States and Canada. NAF members care for more than half the women who choose abortion each year in the U.S. and work at clinics, doctor?s offices, and hospitals throughout the country, including premier teaching hospitals.

The ACLU has successfully challenged so-called "partial-birth abortion" bans throughout the U.S., including bans in Alaska, Idaho, Illinois, Kentucky, Michigan, Montana, New Jersey, and Rhode Island, notably winning the first case in the nation to invalidate a state ban.

Today?s case is National Abortion Federation v. Ashcroft, No. 03 CV 8695. Lawyers on the case include Talcott Camp of the ACLU Reproductive Freedom Project; Rebekah Diller of the New York Civil Liberties Union; Lorie Chaiten of the ACLU of Illinois; and Kimberly A. Parker of Wilmer, Cutler & Pickering.

link

 

[Crimson]

Just as I predicted, the partial-birth ban has been frozen by a NY Federal Court. I also predict that the ban will be struck down as unconstitutional, just like all attempts thus far to whittle away at Roe v Wade. Way to go conservatives! Put your religious agenda ahead of the health and well-being of women in this country!

Right, because right there in the opening line of the constitution it says that abortion should be legal..

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
More madness from the pro-kill-women-in-the-alley crowd.

More madness from the suck a baby's head through a straw crowd.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Crimson

Just as I predicted, the partial-birth ban has been frozen by a NY Federal Court. I also predict that the ban will be struck down as unconstitutional, just like all attempts thus far to whittle away at Roe v Wade. Way to go conservatives! Put your religious agenda ahead of the health and well-being of women in this country!

Right, because right there in the opening line of the constitution it says that abortion should be legal..

Right, because you're an authority on all things constitutional.

In 1973, in the landmark Roe v Wade case, the United States Supreme Court ruled that the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution provided a fundamental right for women to obtain abortions. So yes, it's a matter of federal constitutional law.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Crimson

Just as I predicted, the partial-birth ban has been frozen by a NY Federal Court. I also predict that the ban will be struck down as unconstitutional, just like all attempts thus far to whittle away at Roe v Wade. Way to go conservatives! Put your religious agenda ahead of the health and well-being of women in this country!

Right, because right there in the opening line of the constitution it says that abortion should be legal..

Right, because you're an authority on all things constitutional.

In 1973, in the landmark Roe v Wade case, the United States Supreme Court ruled that the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution provided a fundamental right for women to obtain abortions. So yes, it's a matter of federal constitutional law.

And of course the Supreme Court is never, ever wrong.
Regarding the Dred Scott case:

"Chief Justice Roger B. Taney -- a staunch supporter of slavery -- wrote the majority opinion for the court. It stated that because Scott was black, he was not a citizen and therefore had no right to sue. The decision also declared the Missouri Compromise of 1820, legislation which restricted slavery in certain territories, unconstitutional. "

So slavery had to be OK, because the Supreme Court said so!