Abit NV7-133R nForce Sound Question

[rei]

can't use both at same time?

 

[rogo]

Airbus: I will tell you how it goes and also probably be begging for advice.

I have never done anything like this, and am a bit trepidacious (sp?).

I have most of the parts I need, just waiting on tomorrow's Fed Ex delivery of the Alpha cooler and the Radeon.

Mark

 

[tboo]

rei, you can use both, but they hog IRQs & I only use 2 ports

 

[tboo]

Damn, just read an article on how the new GF4 4400/4600s are having trouble fitting on the nv7-133r. Apparently there is a resistor in the way by the third dimm slot. I was planning on getting a 4400 this weekend. What the hell was abit thinking by builing this board out of spec?

 

[tboo]

I get my GF4 4400 this weekend-Ill let you know how it fits

 

[TrajanDacicus]

For a abenchmark of Nforce sound vs other sound cards, have a look on this (french) excellent article :

http://www.hardware.fr/art/lire/415/

Hercule, creative and philipas sound card are compared to the Nforce Apu.

 

[tboo]

The pny gf4 4400 fits fine-its close & on some of the nv7-133r boards you might have to bend the capacitor just a tad(mine was at a perfect angle already)

 

[jacksheartache]

>Well, if SPDI/F is technically the coax connector, it's true you don't get one.

>But ironically they label the TOSlink input and output as SPDI/F.

S/PDIF is the data protocol. Coax is one interface style and TOSLINK is the other. (So, when they
labeled TOSLINK output as S/PDIF, they were correct.)

Here's a web-page that explains a little more.

http://www.andrewkilpatrick.org/projects/spdif/

.

 

[unknown8585]

bump

 

[jchenn]

Same prob. Got a link to the drivers?

 

[airbus]

Answers!!! + a few more questions.

I did a little research and figured out how the sound on the NV7-133R works.

Here we go:

The AC-Link described on the Abit website is a standard protocol (AC'97, Audio Codec Specification) which connects a South Bridge (like the nVidia MCP-D) and a Codec chip (like the Realtek ALC650) together. This two chip standard was developed by the industry to keep costs down, to create a minimum audio standard, and to give flexibility to OEMs (can choose each chip separately knowing that they will still be compatible).

In this industry standard, the South Bridge handles the digital audio (signal processing, synthesis, and mixing) and the Codec chip handles the Digital Analog Conversions (DAC) + the Analog Digital Conversions (ADC).

In the past, the South Bridge in such a setup would offload processing to the CPU and just act as a controller and pipeline. In the case of the nForce, the MCP-D has quite a powerful (for a commercial audio solution) processor to handle manipulation of the digital signal (and synthesis) itself. In this way, it is just like a good audio card because it does not need the CPU for its calculations (at least the majority of them). So, while the AC'97 Audio Codec Specification applies to the nForce, it is different from previous solutions because it uses the nForce's own processing.

Now, the DAC is a very important part of the system; if the conversion to the analog world is not good, the best digital signal could be ruined. The Realtek chip used on the NV7-133R is new and should be pretty good (I don't have the board yet and cannot comment on this).

Actually, all of this fuss is about nothing as the ASUS 415-D board has its own Codec chips. I downloaded the manual for the ASUS board and it describes two AC'97 chips on the ACR board (I think it said ACR rather than motherboard). The reason it has two chips is because each AC-Link can only handle six channels. The second AC'97 chip is likely for the Modem's DAC/ADC (even though there is no physical modem connection on board). I am not sure which exact AC'97 Codec chips the ASUS board uses for audio DAC; if anyone can figure this out - post. I can't imagine it being any better than the Realtek chip. The Dolby Digital certification for the ASUS board was probably a formality (where the Manufacturer needs to pay for testing). My guess is that the two boards have very comparable audio.


Here is a FANTASTIC article on Audio Codecs.

Here is a description of the MCP-D (also go to the Interface Buses and Standards section in the table of contents and look for a short section on the AC-Link)

Now, the only questions I have left are about this in the NV7-133R manual:
"The Realtek ALC650 supports legacy audio - SBPRO(tm), DirectMusic(tm), and HRTF 3D extension technology to enhance traditional HRTF 3D positional audio (C3DX-tm), and uses HRTF 3D extension technology to enhance traditional HRTF 3D positional audio by substituting two-speaker system with a four-or six-speaker one. It greatly improves HRTF 3D positional audio quality and successfully removes sweet spot limitations. This way, uses can enjoy genuine 3D gaming effects without having to worry about environmental confinements."

From what I understand, the nForce has the capability for HRTF 3D, multichannel audio. Why would Abit leave this up to the Realtek chip (apparently the Realtek chip has some significant digital processing ability on its own) when the nForce can do it? The few thoughts I have are:
1) the 3D audio implementation (drivers) are better for the Realtek chip than currently for the nForce.
2) by giving 3D audio tasks to the Realtek chip, the nForce MCP-D is less burdened for other tasks.

Here is some info on 3D audio positioning

If anyone has any thoughts, comments, or info regarding this (or any other part of what I have said) - post.

Hope this clears up the sound issue for most of us.

I would like to know all of the audio drivers (and devices that show up in Windows) that are installed with the Mobo.

 

[airbus]

BTW,

I just wanted to mention that while the ASUS board has an RCA SPDIF out as opposed the Abit's Toslink optical SPDIF out (I have always believed that optical is better anyway), the Abit board has a digital input as well - the Asus board does not.

I am going to buy a professional audio interface card (I am building a Digital Audio Workstation), so it doesn't make that much of a difference to me, but it is nice to know it will always be there in a pinch.

Nice going Abit.

 

[jchenn]

Thanks to the many comments in this thread I've managed to work most out most of the bugs in my system install for the NV7-133R and everything is humming right along. I'm very satisfied with the system so far. Here's what I've found/confirmed in installing:

The drivers disk provided by with the system board will not get USB 2.0 ports working. As was pointed out, the new drivers from VIA are the fix. Here's the link: http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=71#usb. As was also pointed out, Sandra memory bandwidth scores for the board are miserable if you don't go with the 1:1 settings for memory frequency. That's a fact. Okay, all that's been said before. Now, for some new stuff for any RAID 0 fans out there.

I've got some RAID specs for those who might be trying to decide whether or not to invest in duel drives. From my testing I find the 372 controller does give you a pretty nice performance kick. Here's what I tested:

2 Western Digital Special Edition ATA-100 7200RPM drives (120GB each w/8MB cache). I striped the disk set with RAID 0 for maximum throughput and had each drive on its own channel rather than going Master/Slave.

I was pleased to find that my system consistently outscored reference ATA-100 RAID 0 (2 drive) system in Sandra. I've chosen a few of the benchmark scores to illustrate:

Disk Index Scores
==============================================
ATA-66 7200 RPM(single drive) 17000
ATA-100 7200 RPM (single drive) 24000
ATA-66 7200 RPM (RAID 0 x 2 drives) 32000
ATA-100 7200 RPM (RAID 0 x 2 drives) 36300

My ATA-100 7200 RPM (RAID 0 x 2 drives) 36600-41000*

*One interesting note here. My drives have unusually large caches on them (8MB compared to the standard 2MB) and I found that when I ran the Disk Index test a second time, my scores would consistently shoot up to a figure between 40000-41000. My sustained read rate was about 85MB/s (not bad for a non-SCSI system)

Here's the summary: the real world numbers for RAID zero on the 372 controller should match the Sandra reference figures and yield you a 50% increase over a single drive system. If you opt for big caches for your drives, you could see an increase of up to 70%. So, all in all, I'd say the investment in two drives is worth it. And setup was fairly easy if you've ever played with RAID before (though the instructions were poor). Striping your disks for zero takes just a couple of minutes.

I'll end with an unrelated question: does know where to get the Irda adapter for the motherboard? Didn't come in the box, that's for sure. Is there even one made specifically for the ABITs? I've seen plenty for ASUS, but nothing for ABIT.

 

[airbus]

jchenn,

thanks for all of the info - glad everything is up and running.

Funny thing, I am planning to run the same RAID setup as you (with the WD1200JBs).

What stripe size are you using and how is it partitioned? Have you tried multiple stripe sizes?

There is a great thread on this in the amdmb.com forums (under Abit).

As I have said earlier, I am building a Digital Audio Workstation and am looking for the optimal stripe size. Generally I will be working with very large files.

Any suggestions?