Abit BX6rev1 upgrade - PIII600e or C2 533a???

[BLoop]

I have an aging system. An Abit BX6rev1 board with a Celeron 266@412. I'm looking to upgrade the CPU but keep the MOBO. With the latest BIOS for the BX6 I can use either a PIII 600e or a Celemine 533, but I have a few questions about which path I should follow in order to maximize my gaming goodness.

Even though the BIOS from Abit tops out with these processors, is this as high as I can go in terms of CPU choice?

I read that I have to make sure that my MOBO supports 1.5 - 1.6v for the 533a but I thought the slotket took care of that.

Since I'm currently running at a 103Mhz FSB Im confident that the rest of my peripherals can handle 100Mhz but I'm not sure of anything above this. I have 128mb of generic PC100 cas2 mem. I'm fairly confident of a C533a@800 but not sure about O/C the PIII 600e.

So what do you think? Should I get a C533a + golden orb + slotket + shipping ~ $135 or a PIII600E + shipping for $160?

Also is the Golden Orb the way to go and any recommendations for cheap reputable dealers?

Thnx

 

[Syborg1211]

go to millisec.com , all sorts of cooling goodies.

as for the cpu, i would recommend the p3 over the celeron just because the overall better performance with a p3. I bet you won't be disappointed with a p3 600 overclock to 800 or more.

I would also like to recommend an alpha pep66 instead of the golden orb as the alpha will take you much further in overclocking.

I will make a bet that your motherboard will handle a p3 700 if you just use user define settings and put it on multiplier of 7 (if your mobo has a 7 on it which is highly likely).

 

[alpha7x]

Even though Abit doesn't officially support it, people have said that they are running P3-800's on the BX6 with QS bios.

The P3's will give you a bit better performance than the Celeron II's. That said, I have a 566 Celeron II on a P3B-F board running at 850, and it rocks...not much difference between it and my P3-650 at 866.

My BX6 rev 1 board has a Celeron 466 @ 525, and it does a nice job as well.

 

[Killer Ape]

The general consensus, and my own benchmarking bears this out, is that a C533A @ 800/C566 @ 850 are about equal performance-wise to a non OCed P!!!700E, particularly in gaming. Check out some of Anand's videocard benchmarks. I don't understand how your mobo could support a C533A (CPU with an 8 multiplier)and not also support any Intel CPU up to a P!!!800E. Most support multipliers beyond 8 either by remapping to a lower multiplier (the CPU still runs at the right speed) or through a BIOS update. The voltage issue is a bit dicier, but as long as you can get it down to about 1.8v or so, you should be a little hot, but fine. Most OCed C2s need a little more voltage, say 1.6-1.65v to be completely stable on a 100MHz FSB anyway. Again, check for a BIOS update. Slotkets don't actively regulate the voltage, rather they "tell" the mobo what voltage to supply. So if your mobo doesn't support voltages below 2.0v setting a slotket to "1.6v" will not work. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this point.

The risk with OCing P!!!s is that you generally want to get into the 133+MHz FSB range in order to maximize your $/MHz investment. This means you need:

1. RAM that can handle those speeds (your CAS2 PC100 MAY work if you step it down to CAS3, but there's no guarantee).

2. An AGP video card that is comfortable at 89MHz since there's no 1/2 AGP miltiplier for BX chipsets, or use a PCI videocard.

3. Peripherals/HDD that are happy on a potentially OCed PCI bus.

In other words, on BX mobos, the C2, provided you get a good OCer, is pretty much a plug and go operation, as opposed to a P!!! where you may be looking at replacing other system components, or getting a new (VIA) mobo. P!!!s do outperform C2s clock-for-clock though.

As for cooling, for mild overclocks like 100MHz FSB for the C2s, the Gorb is good, the Intel retail HS and fan are also fine. Just make sure whatever fan/HS you get is FCPGA compatible. If you go P!!! the PEP66 is a great unit, but the Gorb will probably also work.

The other consideration in OC success is the slotket. I'd recommend an MSI first, and an ABit last. I've had higher OCs using my MSI than I did with my (old) ABit. There's been a couple threads on this subject that are worth checking out.

As far as vendors, Allstarshop is good, but sometimes low on stock. I also just use Buy.com whenever I can because they're cheap and reliable.

 

[BLoop]

Thnx for the advice Ape.

I just flashed with the QS bios and now the multiplier goes up to 8x and the core voltage can be set to 1.3v - 3.5v. So I guess that means that I'm not limited to the C2533a or the P3600e like I thought.

I've pretty much decided to go with the C2 because I already know the rest of my components can operate at 100MHz FSB, but I'm not sure that I'd be able to succesfully O/C the P3600. I could go with a P3800 but then price becomes much more of a factor. Since I'm mainly upgrading to improve my gaming performance, I don't think the cache size will make that much of a difference.

The question then is do I go with a 533a or a 566. From what I've read the 533a has a better chance of making it to 800 than a 566 to 850. What do you think? Do you think it's worth buying a processor from a dealer that guarantees it to a certain speed or is the 533a O/C pretty much a given (though not a certainty)? What about buying a used set up from someone over the web, too risky?

 

[Killer Ape]

Both the 533A and 566 are getting scarce. If you can find a RETAIL one, I'd buy that because: 1.) It will come with a fan/HS that should work fine for up to a 100MHz FSB OC and 2.) At this point, many of the OEM C2s have been picked-over for the good overclockers, so you stand a better chance of getting a performer if you get one straight from Intel's hand to yours (i.e. Retail Boxed) rather than a cull from a tray of OEM units. I don't think you'll see a noticeable performance difference between the 533A@800 or the 566@850.

You can buy guaranteed OC C2s, but you'll pay a premium for them that may put you in P!!! territory anyway. Mail Compuwiz1 and see if he still can get C2s. He's a straight shooter and will give you a sense of what the cost is. There's a few other forum members who sell guaranteed OCers, so I wouldn't be too suspicious of buying from someone here.

Happy hunting.

 

[breeze]

Hi everyone,
This is the problem I have been trying to work out. I too just flashed my bios on my Abit bx6 rev1 and got the 8x multiplier and
core volt range good enough for C2 or P3. But I am running my 300a O/C to 450 at 2.1 volts. WhenI shut down to do the cpu swap.. say a C2 533a , at boot up prior to going into the bios will the computer use its default setting of 2.0 volts or will it lower itself automatically?
Will I be able to get into the bios and use user define to set the multiplier and core voltage at bootup I have heared that the bx6 rev1 will not allow voltage settings via a slocket...is this true?
I too am considering a 533a fc pga or a p3 600 as my next upgrade.,
I have really enjoyed this board and want to make the same upgrade.

Thanks
Breeze

 

[Killer Ape]

You should clear the BIOS prior to installing the CPU. I believe there's a jumper near the ROM to do this, if the BX6r1 is anything like my BX6r2. It should then auto-detect the correct voltage. It should take you to SofetMenu if it detects a new CPU, but if it doesn't go into BIOS immediately however to make sure this is the case. My BX6r2 auto-detected the voltage correctly the first time it POSTed with the C533A following this procedure. If the BIOS correctly detects the CPU as a Coppermine, the BIOS should limit the voltage selections to ~1.3v-1.8v.

A quick 2.0v jolt shouldn't kill the C2, but better safe than sorry.

 

[rigor3]

just set the voltage down to 1.8V before you put the 533 . Your old chip will run fine at 1.8v non overclocked. it won't be uber stable, dont boot into windows . But alot of 2.0v celerons and p2's will run at 1.8v.

Btw, the multiplier has NOTHING to do with the cpu.
My mobo goes up to 8.0 multiplier, so i set it at 8. When it boots it says "Celeron (100x9.5) 950mghz"

Go figure.

Even if your max Multiplier was 8 and your chip is 9.5, guess what, it runs at 9.5. Intel did this on purpose to prevent people from changing the multiplier. It will read the wrong mghz on bootup, but benchmarks and wcpuid will read the correct info.

good luck.

The new batch of 633's from onvia, are ROCK friggin solid at 950, at 1.7V, and mine does 980 at 1.8V, i'm gonna push 1.9V and hit a gighz.

 

[breeze]

Hi Killer Ape,
I just checked my motherboard manual and it does mention using the Cmos jumper to errase the prior cpu parameters...
Thanks for the info !!

Breeze

 

[breeze]

Nice upgrade Rigor3 !!
Is this jump on a bx6rev1 motherboard? I guess i was somewhat misled thinking that the 8x multiplier would ran the show as to what my O/C
max could be. What was the price of your 633? I may want check one out now....heehee.
This thread has been a great help.

Thanks,
Breeze

 

[BLoop]

Ape, good info about using the jumper to reset the BIOS. I'm sure this will come in handy when I finally get to that point.

Rigor3, I was also interested in knowing what MOBO your using. I read a thread in the Hot Deals forum about people having luck with the 633 from Onvia at 950. It's cheaper than a 533a at this point so I think I may go that route as well. It seems like quite a few people had luck just using the standard HS/fan. What you said about the multiplier makes sense because after all the Intel chips are locked so it shouldn't matter what the BIOS is set at. The FSB settings that I can use are 66, 75, 83, 100, 103, 112, 133MHz. Even if I cant get the 633 stable at 100*9.5 = 950MHz I should be alright at 83*9.5 = 789MHz just shy of 800 which is what I'd hoped to run a 533a at.

Would the 83MHz cause my peripherals any problems? One other question I had was about the warranty on a retail CPU. Wouldn't this be voided if I O/C?

BTW, thanks for the input, you guys have really helped me to expand and iron out my options.

-B_Loop

 

[rigor2]

Theres not been one person to speak out saying onvia's 633 wont run at 950.

I've got two now. both hit 980 (103*9.5) at 1.85V which MSI6905(the only) and GORB.

The stock heatsink is beefy. But GORB's look cooler.

No need to get a better heatsink unless you're going up in the 1.9V range.

 

[Killer Ape]

BLoop: Yes,technically you void the warranty on your Intel CPU if you overclock it, run it at non-standard voltages, use anything but the Intel HS/fan, and use a non-Intel approved slotket(i.e. a slotket not made by the same company as your mobo). Overclocking is not for the warranty sensitive, which is another reason why you generally want to stick with cheaper CPUs. It's difficutlt for Intel to prove any of the above, but legally, and morally in my opinion, you can't return an OCed proc if something goes wrong with it.

The PCI/AGP bus multipliers are the bane of the BX chipset. The 83MHz FSB is not a great speed since it forces your PCI bus to run at ~41MHz. Some peripherals may fart at that speed. Older HDDs are particularly notorious for being intolerant of OCed PCI buses. It's usually not a problem for newer and/or high quality components, but you should be aware of the risk nonetheless. The AGP bus can be underclocked to ~55MHz at the 2/3 multiplier, which shouldn't really give you a performance hit, if your vidcard is unhappy at 83MHz. Ideally, you'd be better off with a 100MHz FSB for obvious reasons. Having said that, I ran a C400 @ 500 (83 MHz FSB) for a year with no problems before I bought my C533A in April.

 

[BLoop]

Rigor2 - There's a post over on the FatWallet forums from someone who bought an onvia 633 but couldn't get it to run stable at 950 1.8v. He said it's a week 33. Do you have the same? He was able to go with a 95MHz FSB which I can't do. I assume you bought the retail version, that's all I saw on their site.

Ape - I'm goint to kick my FSB down to 83MHz right now and see if everything seems ok. Any reccomendations for a progie that will stress test the other components, not necessarily the CPU?

 

[Killer Ape]

BLoop: That program is called Windows . The most likely component to freak-out is the HDD, so running anything that stresses the HDD is a decent test. Filter a giant image in PhotoShop that will cause massive paging, etc. The HDD problem is more insidious in that it could not show up for months. Ususally it's a corruption problem rather than outright failure of the HDD.

 

[BLoop]

Well, no go at 83 or 75. I got into Windows, just not quite all the way. I guess my Maxtor DiamondMax 8.4 can't handle any O/C.

So that puts me back to deciding between a 533a that will very likely hit 800 or a 633 that might make 950. The 633 would be nice, but if I don't get lucky I'll be stuck at 633. Any reccomendations as to sites that might have decent prices on a pretested 633? Otherwise I'm almost sure to go with a 533a, the 633 just doesn't seem worth the risk.

argh!!!

 

[rigor3]

push it to 1.9V , won't kill it.

BTW, you are setting the voltage on the motherboard soft menu right? ABIT boards IGNORE the slotket setting for voltage

 

[BLoop]

Rigor - I still have the C266@412 (100FSB with turbo). No slocket needed. I decided to try the other bus speeds now to see how my other components would react. The voltage is set to 2.0v through SoftMenu but I'ts the HD that's hanging. The boot process never finishes. The HD is being continually accesed but it doesn't sound the same as usual but the mouse pointer is still active. Given this I don't think the voltage of the CPU is involved.

Do you know if you have a week 33?

 

[Killer Ape]

Rogor: I think BLoop's still running the C266 @ 412.

Bloop: You can try a couple things:

1.) Try setting the HDD to PIO 4 or 3 rather than running it in UDMA, assuming that's what you're doing now. I'm not sure how old your Maxtor is, but pre-7,200 RPM Maxtors had bad reps as overclockers. I have 10.2GB Maxtor 7200 RPM UDMA33 that works fine at 83. Obviously this will make your HDD performance suffer though.

2.) Make sure the AGP is at 2/3, if you're using an AGP card (I assume it was since you were running at 103 FSB).

3.) It may still be something other than the HDD. If you can stand the pain, you could try removing everything from the PCI/ISA bus (except the vidcard if it's PCI) and see if it works. Then add things back until you isolate the culprit. If you have any really old devices, like ISA soundcards or modems, they could be misbehaving.

 

[fastvideo]

any sources to get c533a ,pls let me know, i am looking for this for two months now!!!

 

[BLoop]

Killer Ape - You were right. I also have an older 1.6G drive that I use for backups and that's what was hanging. I set it to PIO 4 and that resolved the problem. The Maxtor is still running in UDMA.

So 83MHz is back in play which once again is leading me back toward the 633. Like I said before even if I can't get the 633 to 950 I'm fairly confident that I'll be able to run it at 9.5x83 = 789MHz. Still a gamble as compared to the 533a but...

Any other words of wisdom before I make up my mind?

 

[Killer Ape]

If you do go with the 633, get a retail package. If you buy from either Buy or Onvia, which most people seem to be, buy it through Pointclick and you'll get a 5% rebate. Also checkTechbargains (linked through Pointclick) to see if there are any other coupons you can use for additional money off. rigor3 got a good deal this way.

I believe Intel has stopped making the C533A and possibly also the C566, so the 633 or 600 seem like the next best thing, particularly if you hit 900 or 950.

Good luck and don't forget the slotket .

P.S. Mods: I'm still a little dicey on what's cool and not in terms of linkages, so be merciful.