ABC News releases Paul Ryan's letters requesting stimulus money

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,326
6,039
126
You wouldn't be a pig if you didn't stampede to the trough. I don't blame him, myself, however. I blame the system. He acted exactly as any good political pig should for the benefits of his constituents, grabbing as much as he can for them. This is how the game is played and all congressmen and senators do it if they want to be re-elected.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,203
28,218
136
You wouldn't be a pig if you didn't stampede to the trough. I don't blame him, myself, however. I blame the system. He acted exactly as any good political pig should for the benefits of his constituents, grabbing as much as he can for them. This is how the game is played and all congressmen and senators do it if they want to be re-elected.
I don't even blame him for grabbing his piece. I blame him for saying it won't work while claiming it will work in his request.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
Not that this needs to be explained again or that you will understand it, but I don't have an extra $15T dollars to send.

That's OK, you and everyone else sincerely voting Dem (not potentially voting Dem like me to help tank us quicker) can write-in that extra money. Make a public show out of it, show how righteous you and your cause is! Heck, hold a Million Money Depositor March and wave your tax forms in the air, demonstrating how you all put your hands forward and gave those extra thousands you don't need to the Fed to spend.

Go on now, send that extra money to your Fed god like a good little Proggie. Make sure to make a quip about those evil Republicans and/or Conservatives are while you're doing it, it'll make you feel that much more righteous.

Every little bit helps, so don't feel your few thousands are too small! Remember, the Fed needs it more than you...and it's not really your money anyways, the Fed just let you keep more of it. Send their money back to them. :thumbsup:

Chuck
 

BrayD

Member
Oct 12, 2012
32
0
0
I'm curious, did anyone here actually read any of the letters linked in the op? I went through them and no where did I see Ryan say what Biden claims: “I love that. I love that. This was such a bad program and he writes me a letter saying — writes the Department of Energy a letter saying, “The reason we need this stimulus, it will create growth and jobs.” His words. And now he’s sitting here looking at me."

The closest thing that I could find which resembles Biden's claim is: "I was pleased to learn that their Topic Area 1 project is aimed at transforming energy efficiency retrofit markets, building sustainable demand for green jobs, and providing a model in other communities." Aka, "Their plan is aimed at creating a demand for jobs, among other things."

The letters appear to be just what Ryan said they were, him advocating stimulus money for his constituents. All the letters are pretty much the same too; "Company X wants money for project Y and they believe this will result in Z. I have reviewed their plan, and agree that it is deserving of money, please give them some."

In a way, it kind of shows that Biden fibbed a little. "His words", as claimed by Biden, were not "His words", but an inaccurate paraphrase of "His words" Now, that is just in the letters linked and does not include other letters that were not linked or videos.
 
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Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
Ryan's a hypocrite.

Ron Paul did the same , When questioned about it he gave the right answer , It was his job to get what he could for the people who put him in office. Ryan did the proper thing . The bill passed now rep or sen . job is to serve the people who put them in office. I thought Demons were super intelligent! Everyone I ever talked has nothing but BS coming from their minds.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/2012_08_13_10_36_08.pdf

What a disgusting piece of shit, claims other are liars when people outed him, now he has to backtrack.

Here's Paul Ryan in 2002 giving a rather 'inspirational speech' on the benefits of stimulus spending:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlwAToAj7cE

This is the republican hero

Ok, this will equal outrage when every democrat who was opposed to the Bush Tax cuts gives back the extra money they saved. Untill then, STFU.
 

SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
81
Ok, this will equal outrage when every democrat who was opposed to the Bush Tax cuts gives back the extra money they saved. Untill then, STFU.

crying-baby.jpg
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
In a way, it kind of shows that Biden fibbed a little. "His words", as claimed by Biden, were not "His words", but an inaccurate paraphrase of "His words" Now, that is just in the letters linked and does not include other letters that were not linked or videos.
You must be mistaken, only Republicans lie. :rolleyes:

Nice first post!
 

Dedpuhl

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
10,371
0
76
In the beginning of that youtube clip, it doesn't seem like he's truly convinced it will work. He even says they'll give it another chance or one more crack at it. Maybe that experience convinced him stimulus doesn't work as intended? I dunno Ryan's complete background to know.

I think it's hilarious that both sides keep releasing/leaking these "gotcha" videos and clips right before the vote.
 

MixMasterTang

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2001
3,167
176
106
I'm curious, did anyone here actually read any of the letters linked in the op? I went through them and no where did I see Ryan say what Biden claims: “I love that. I love that. This was such a bad program and he writes me a letter saying — writes the Department of Energy a letter saying, “The reason we need this stimulus, it will create growth and jobs.” His words. And now he’s sitting here looking at me."

The closest thing that I could find which resembles Biden's claim is: "I was pleased to learn that their Topic Area 1 project is aimed at transforming energy efficiency retrofit markets, building sustainable demand for green jobs, and providing a model in other communities." Aka, "Their plan is aimed at creating a demand for jobs, among other things."

The letters appear to be just what Ryan said they were, him advocating stimulus money for his constituents. All the letters are pretty much the same too; "Company X wants money for project Y and they believe this will result in Z. I have reviewed their plan, and agree that it is deserving of money, please give them some."

In a way, it kind of shows that Biden fibbed a little. "His words", as claimed by Biden, were not "His words", but an inaccurate paraphrase of "His words" Now, that is just in the letters linked and does not include other letters that were not linked or videos.

What about the paragraph directly after the one you mentioned up?
 

BrayD

Member
Oct 12, 2012
32
0
0
What about the paragraph directly after the one you mentioned up?

Ahh yes, I did miss that one. However, it still is in agreement with what I said in my other post. Ryan is merely stating the the goals of the plan brought before him. Wisconsin Energy Conservation Corp. says their plan will cut costs and create jobs, which Ryan said he is pleased with.

When a banker advocates a loan for a plan claiming to cure cancer, no one would think that that banker said he was going to cure cancer. No, he merely arranged the funding for that plan.

In the same vain, Ryan was arranging funding for businesses which had plans that could lead to job creation. These companies came to him for help, and he wrote these letters on their behalf. He was restating the goals which theses companies hoped to achieve and he liked those goals. It wasn't as Biden said of Ryan, "I need stimulus money to create jobs," but more of a "I would like stimulus money to help these local businesses, and in doing so, they plan on creating jobs."

Also, I am not debating whether or not Ryan ever said he will create jobs with stimulus money, because he did say that in those videos. I am merely claiming that the statement of Biden's wasn't accurate and should be held to the same scrutiny as Ryan is. Both of them told many lies and half-truths, to focus on one of them and not the other is destructive to any claim, including the op's.
 
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NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
I fucking hate Ryan/Romney with oh so much passion, but this is similar to earmarking. The funds are going to be spent regardless and congressmen should indeed try and allot a certain percentage to their constituents. In my opinion everything should be earmarked to prevent the funds from being spent by the executive branch.

Just my 2 cents.

Uhh they misappropriate funds at their will. See Obama's Libyan 'kenetic military action'. They do what they want when they want. You get to entertain the illusion of control.
 
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davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
76
Ahh yes, I did miss that one. However, it still is in agreement with what I said in my other post. Ryan is merely stating the the goals of the plan brought before him. Wisconsin Energy Conservation Corp. says their plan will cut costs and create jobs, which Ryan said he is pleased with.

When a banker advocates a loan for a plan claiming to cure cancer, no one would think that that banker said he was going to cure cancer. No, he merely arranged the funding for that plan.

In the same vain, Ryan was arranging funding for businesses which had plans that could lead to job creation. These companies came to him for help, and he wrote these letters on their behalf. He was restating the goals which theses companies hoped to achieve and he liked those goals. It wasn't as Biden said of Ryan, "I need stimulus money to create jobs," but more of a "I would like stimulus money to help these local businesses, and in doing so, they plan on creating jobs."

Also, I am not debating whether or not Ryan ever said he will create jobs with stimulus money, because he did say that in those videos. I am merely claiming that the statement of Biden's wasn't accurate and should be held to the same scrutiny as Ryan is. Both of them told many lies and half-truths, to focus on one of them and not the other is destructive to any claim, including the op's.

Welcome to the jungle!
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
I guess I don't get the outrage. The money was already authorized so the argument against stimulus spending had already become a moot point. Ryan just asked for a piece of the pie.
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
0
0
It's hypocritical to get up and say I'm not the kind of guy that opposes the stimulus then asks for money later. He flat out said he would never do what he did.

It's absolutely fair game to call him out on being a liar and a hypocrite for that.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81
I guess I'm confused, help me out:

Why wouldn't a fiscally conservative politician, who is opposed to the stimulus, make sure his constituency got stimulus money that's going to be given out anyways (that is, deficit spent anyways), rather than not get the money, and watch it be spent someplace else?

How F'ing dumb would that be???

For the same reason that right-wingers tell us that any rich person advocating higher income tax rates for rich people should VOLUNTARILY pay the advocated higher rate right now.

My personal opinion is that it's completely non-hypocritical to advocate for a particular change, but until that change actually takes place, to take advantage of the current rules. To do otherwise is to subject yourself to an uneven playing field; furthermore, such action might have the effect of STOPPING the change you advocate (because your altruism reduces the urgency of making the advocated change into law). Those advocating change are advocating it for EVERYONE, not just themselves.

Somehow, though, this type of (false) hypocrisy is going to continue to be flagged by both sides when they can "gotcha" the other side. It's a completely invalid argument, but it's politics.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,200
14,875
136
Anything the left does the right always have an excuse ready to go! Oh sure he said he was against the Obama stimulus even though he voted for the bush stimulus but...but.. the bush stimulus was smaller so it didn't go against his principles./s

The right is the party of hypocrites and they don't even try and hide it.

I really wish the true/real republicans were still around, we would then at least have real alternatives.
 
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tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,475
6,896
136
Anything the left days the right always have an excuse ready to go! Oh sure he said he was against the Obama stimulus even though he voted for the bush stimulus but...but.. the bush stimulus was smaller so it didn't go against his principles./s

The right is the party of hypocrites and they don't even try and hide it.

I really wish the true/real republicans were still around, we would then at least have real alternatives.


After having to live in a state of denial from the day Bush/Cheney left office leaving behind them a country in the grip of a nightmarish economic crash that devastated the middle class and the poor, it amazes me that the reaction of the conservative base to the financial trainwreck that those two high power Repub businessmen stood watch over was to go even further to the right, somehow thinking the crippling disaster was caused by their not being conservative enough.

So here we are, with the Repubs stonewalling and filibustering attempts to help the recovery along, while earnestly attempting to legislate Christian dogma into every crack and crevice of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Add to that their not very well disguised attempts at getting rid of social safety net programs so the savings can go to corporate welfare and the very rich folks who really don't need a cent more from the federal gov't.

I wonder what makes the conservative base think these kinds of destructive policies is somehow good for the nation as a whole, espeically when those millions of them in the middle class and poor are knowingly advocating/voting against their own best interests?
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
After having to live in a state of denial from the day Bush/Cheney left office leaving behind them a country in the grip of a nightmarish economic crash that devastated the middle class and the poor, it amazes me that the reaction of the conservative base to the financial trainwreck that those two high power Repub businessmen stood watch over was to go even further to the right, somehow thinking the crippling disaster was caused by their not being conservative enough.

So here we are, with the Repubs stonewalling and filibustering attempts to help the recovery along, while earnestly attempting to legislate Christian dogma into every crack and crevice of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Add to that their not very well disguised attempts at getting rid of social safety net programs so the savings can go to corporate welfare and the very rich folks who really don't need a cent more from the federal gov't.

I wonder what makes the conservative base think these kinds of destructive policies is somehow good for the nation as a whole, espeically when those millions of them in the middle class and poor are knowingly advocating/voting against their own best interests?

Except Bush & Cheney didn't cause the hosing market to bubble and then crash.
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,633
263
126
Except Bush & Cheney didn't cause the hosing market to bubble and then crash.

more revisionist history. George W. Bush is one of the worst Presidents in my or any lifetime.

There are plenty of culprits, like lenders who peddled easy credit, consumers who took on mortgages they could not afford and Wall Street chieftains who loaded up on mortgage-backed securities without regard to the risk.

But the story of how the United States got here is partly one of Bush's own making, according to a review of his tenure that included interviews with dozens of current and former administration officials.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/b...iht-admin.4.18853088.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
more revisionist history. George W. Bush is one of the worst Presidents in my or any lifetime.

There are plenty of culprits, like lenders who peddled easy credit, consumers who took on mortgages they could not afford and Wall Street chieftains who loaded up on mortgage-backed securities without regard to the risk.

But the story of how the United States got here is partly one of Bush's own making, according to a review of his tenure that included interviews with dozens of current and former administration officials.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/b...iht-admin.4.18853088.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

And I can point to links showing Bush and Republicans pushing for regulation of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mack, but most experts point to the repeal of Glass-Steagall which was a bi-partisan vote signed by Clinton.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,200
14,875
136
And I can point to links showing Bush and Republicans pushing for regulation of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mack, but most experts point to the repeal of Glass-Steagall which was a bi-partisan vote signed by Clinton.

Bullshit! You can point to bush doing it but he didn't get any traction with the republicans either.

Bush didn't cause the housing bubble but he did needlessly grow the deficit and he did get us into one of the biggest quagmires of all time and he did allow us to be attacked on our own ground. He gets a bad rap because he was short sighted, his policies were half assed and he thought with his gut and let people with their own agenda run things.