Abbas lays the gauntlet on the table to Netanyuhu

[Lemon law]

In breaking news and as promised, the Palestinian authority delegation headed by Abbas, delivered their negotiating position to Israel and Netanyuhu today. With a somewhat a promise by Netanyuhu to respond in two weeks and not the month requested.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...ers-peace-talks-demands-to-netanyahu-1.424905

However, and what the link refers to as a Palestinian embarrassment, missing in action was a major Palestinian power broker in PM Salem Fayyad. As Fayyad withdrew, because he evidently felt going to the UN was not a wise course for the Palestinians. But IMHO, it is the wise course, and in a longer history, it makes Fayyad odd man out. And Abbas had pushed Fayyad to be the head of any Palestinian reunification government between Fatah and Hamas. However, Fayyad drew the universal opposition of almost everyone on the Hamas side and thus played a large role in scuttling free Palestinian elections that may have voted Hamas out of power.

In terms of the Palestinian terms, and the reason for today's meeting with Netanyuhu is basically unchanged from the initial Obama position in 9/2010, and that is to cause a real Israeli settlement freeze on disputed territories in Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem. And to take the entire settlement freeze issue to the UN, and even if it fails in the Security Council, it can be very embarrassing to Israel and the USA in the general assembly. And even if most new UN Statehood applications fail in the first year, my guess is that each and every year from now on, the same Palestinian Statehood application will be before the UN. But the one thing we can ask, will world pressure build against the USA to the point that its unconditional support of Israel starts to really hurt US foreign policy results.

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/diplom...tinian-peace-plan-or-we-return-to-un-1.423290

As the other thing we more or less know from experience, is that Israel Palestinian negotiations never lead anywhere without a settlement freeze.

But when the Obama lead initiative ended in 10/2011, the Palestinian side kept being pressured to return to the table without a settlement freeze. And now when the Jordanian led efforts expired without any Israeli concessions in late March/2012, today, Abbas and the PA have crossed the Rubicon and have played their trump card.

 

[EagleKeeper]

But the one thing we can ask, will world pressure build against the USA to the point that its unconditional support of Israel starts to really hurt US foreign policy results.

This is where your premise fails

As usual and expected

 

[Moonbeam]

This is where your premise fails

As usual and expected

Fail, how, because our support is already unconditional and has already fucked us in the ass?

Not commenting on whether we are right or wrong to give such support, only that it seems to me we have already paid dearly for it.

 

[Lemon law]

Fail, how, because our support is already unconditional and has already fucked us in the ass?

Not commenting on whether we are right or wrong to give such support, only that it seems to me we have already paid dearly for it.

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I don't want to put any words in Moonbeams mouth, but I think he has hit the nail on the head. As Moonbeam notes, we in the USA, "only that it seems to me we have already paid dearly for it"

Which is really, IMHO, the question we in the USA should be asking, as we in the USA have not yet paid dearly for our unconditional support of Israel. And instead ask will that still be true in the near future for the USA, as nearly everyone in the world now doubts current US foreign policy. wisdom and rationality?

Today is still an important date in world history IMHO, as the Pals will now take their case to the vote of the entire UN. The gauntlet has been thrown down, the Rubicons has been crossed, as Israeli extremists have to make their case. Lots of luck on that one.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Everyone may doubt; yet who do they come knock on the door when they need help or screw the pooch.

Memories are very short when one needs to feed the child.

LL made all these predictions on how pissed off turkey was regarding the flotilla.

Yet they soon realized that Israel was better as a partner than an enemy.
They needed Israels help; the politicians balked; the people needs soon took a higher priority

 

[Zebo]

Standing up for what's right can get you killed. So what? Cowards die a thousand deaths valient only die once.

We are supporting the right side rather than retrograde barbarity.

 

[Lemon law]

As Zebo says, " We are supporting the right side rather than retrograde barbarity. "

As I ask Zebo, who is "WE" and why is not Israel a poster child of babarity?

I am an American citizen too Zebo, so don't be sure of who you count in WE.

As we can also say, the USA is far less than 5% of of world population, and the USA plus Israel commands even less world support. As maybe Zebo, you should more worry about the other 96% of world population instead.

 

[JEDIYoda]

As Zebo says, " We are supporting the right side rather than retrograde barbarity. "

As I ask Zebo, who is "WE" and why is not Israel a poster child of babarity?

I am an American citizen too Zebo, so don't be sure of who you count in WE.

As we can also say, the USA is far less than 5% of of world population, and the USA plus Israel commands even less world support. As maybe Zebo, you should more worry about the other 96% of world population instead.

Again you are good for my beginning of the day laugh.....

As a country the United States supports Israel. No amount of predictions or mis-direction or mis-interpretation made by you or your buddy Jhhnn or your other buddy Kylebisme is going to change that!!!

You can site polls that contradict what I just said all you want but the bottom line is at the end of the day the United States stands behind Israel!!


Of course there are those like you and your buddies who disagree with what I just said. But hey -- do something about it......

Did Zebo mean WE as in all Americans?? I think not!!
But do you have nothing better to do than mis-quote Zebo?


Your percentages mean nothing in the big picture.

In fact your percentages are totally off the charts wrong if you counter in those countries that under the table deal with Israel on a daily basis.....

Please don`t be a goof ball and ask for links......under the table is just that under the table.......I give you an example---
How many countries in the middle east do you honestly believe would support Israel if they attacked Iran?
Answer--quite a few!! Why? Iran--Israel -- Iran is hated more than Israel will ever be!

Now lets talk about your American Citizenship factoring into the equation.....

When the United States jumped into WWII there were many Americans who even after the attack on Pearl harbor --- or do you guys believe it never happened? Anyways there were many Americans who did not support the United States entering the war.

Now as an American Citizen you can support whichever said you choose.
It`s obvious you have made your choice and its obvious Zebo being the intellect that he is knew better than to include you in the word -- WE!!!

 

[Lemon law]

Well JediY as the Israeli Palestinian questions will now go to the UN and the rest of the world, I think I will rely on a time will tell answer rather your premature declarations of victory. Especially when WE means the other 96% of the world will have the larger say.

 

[Zebo]

As Zebo says, " We are supporting the right side rather than retrograde barbarity. "

As I ask Zebo, who is "WE" and why is not Israel a poster child of babarity?

I am an American citizen too Zebo, so don't be sure of who you count in WE.

As we can also say, the USA is far less than 5% of of world population, and the USA plus Israel commands even less world support. As maybe Zebo, you should more worry about the other 96% of world population instead.

I don't care if there was only one family in Israel and whole Muslim world wanted to kill them, their large 21dst century outlook is worth supporting more than 7th century barbarians trying to eradicate then once and for all.

Support would be a lot more if Arab oil lobbies didn't have so much influence in the West who buy Western hirelings, politicians to create myth it's Palestinians and Arabs being oppressed rather than goal of eradication of Jews and Israel. But enough of us see the truth is why I say we.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Well JediY as the Israeli Palestinian questions will now go to the UN and the rest of the world, I think I will rely on a time will tell answer rather your premature declarations of victory. Especially when WE means the other 96% of the world will have the larger say.

Will it go to the UN???
Not the Security Council??
I think you have no clue........
It has already been established that the UN cannot make the Palestinians a full member of the UN.......good luck with that...

 

[Zebo]

Well JediY as the Israeli Palestinian questions will now go to the UN and the rest of the world, I think I will rely on a time will tell answer rather your premature declarations of victory. Especially when WE means the other 96% of the world will have the larger say.

They can't say anything without US approval. Then even if they got it by miracle Israel would have to comply. She is invasion proof and can take everyone with her if they tried. GL.

And your stats are BS. Anyone who has contact with muslim empires and lived through it/not converted supports isreal. Like over a billion Indians. Armenians etc.

 

[Lemon law]

Will it go to the UN???
Not the Security Council??
I think you have no clue........
It has already been established that the UN cannot make the Palestinians a full member of the UN.......good luck with that...

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Even if I buy your point JEDIY, you still fail to understand anything JediY. As the bulk of the world has less and less faith in US foreign policy that emboldens our enemies and alienates our US allies.

As the US wants to claim its the leader of the free world, but its hard to make that claim as the USA has fewer and fewer followers. As the other point can be made, even if the US has the biggest baddest military on earth, that military dominance has failed to translate into any foreign policy victories. And instead has only translated into very expensive quagmires that make it harder and harder for the USA to maintain our military dominance.

As Moonbeam has pointed out the USA too pro-Israeli foreign policy has already started hurting the USA's foreign policy, as I say maintaining a too Pro-Israeli foreign policy is going to become far more expensive for the USA in the future.

Please feel free to disagree JediY, as I say time will tell. The fats in the fire now and will continue to be.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

At the end of the article:

On a visit to Colombia, Defense Minister Ehud Barak told his host, President Juan Manuel Santos, that Israel expects the Palestinians to enter into genuine peace negotiations. However, in Larnaca, Cyprus, Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman told Cypriot President Demitris Christofias that that Abbas was not interested in an agreement.

Wouldn't surprise me. Abbas has no ultimate power anyway. Hamas wouldn't accept any terms not to their liking and until Abbas and Hamas are both on the same page about honest negotiations, none of this is anything more than grandstanding meant to rouse the usual rabble.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Well JediY as the Israeli Palestinian questions will now go to the UN and the rest of the world, I think I will rely on a time will tell answer rather your premature declarations of victory. Especially when WE means the other 96% of the world will have the larger say.

It went before the UN before and got the Palestinians embarrassed.

And it actually hurts the Palestinians by have funding cut out for them and for a UN group.

As long as the Palestinians are demanding, they are not going to suceed.

They were told what was needed to get approval, they ignore that advice

 

[Zebo]

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Even if I buy your point JEDIY, you still fail to understand anything JediY. As the bulk of the world has less and less faith in US foreign policy that emboldens our enemies and alienates our US allies.

As the US wants to claim its the leader of the free world, but its hard to make that claim as the USA has fewer and fewer followers. As the other point can be made, even if the US has the biggest baddest military on earth, that military dominance has failed to translate into any foreign policy victories. And instead has only translated into very expensive quagmires that make it harder and harder for the USA to maintain our military dominance.

As Moonbeam has pointed out the USA too pro-Israeli foreign policy has already started hurting the USA's foreign policy, as I say maintaining a too Pro-Israeli foreign policy is going to become far more expensive for the USA in the future.

Please feel free to disagree JediY, as I say time will tell. The fats in the fire now and will continue to be.

Not in your lifetime. You've been posting this crap since you've been here and life just gets worse for your pals. Plus they will shoot their premature wad like they always do cause they can't control their rage and hatred (see 911) and tilt things back to israel.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The article indicates that Abbas got screwed by someone he was counting on making Abbas look like a powerless fool. Since that could not have been unforeseen, I suggest the internal political dynamics of the Palestinians is the item of interest.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Abbas is trying to push something prior to the promised Palestinian elections to increase his stock.

The letter will state nothing new from the Palestinian view point.

Israel has to do A, B, C before we will talk to them.
The Palestinians will have to do nothing.

 

[Lemon law]

Abbas is trying to push something prior to the promised Palestinian elections to increase his stock.

The letter will state nothing new from the Palestinian view point.

Israel has to do A, B, C before we will talk to them.
The Palestinians will have to do nothing.

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EK has evidently been asleep and now is doing nothing but whistling past a graveyard pretending

Then to add injury to insult, EK mis characterizes the letter from Abbas as multi-conditional on only Israel. When that letter is a binary choice for Israel, either agree to a real and complete settlement freeze, or the Pals will take their case to the UN. The same consistent position the Pales have had for years.

Maybe EK, can think of the Pals going to the UN as a evil zombie about to escape the graveyard, as others can think of the Pals going to the UN as a chicken that escaped while the Fox was guarding the hen house, but either way that Zombie or Chicken is coming to the UN and coming home to roost and stay.

After that time will tell.

 

[cybrsage]

As the other thing we more or less know from experience, is that Israel Palestinian negotiations never lead anywhere without a settlement freeze.

We also know they go nowhere WITH a settlement freeze, so why bother doing it?

 

[cybrsage]

The article indicates that Abbas got screwed by someone he was counting on making Abbas look like a powerless fool. Since that could not have been unforeseen, I suggest the internal political dynamics of the Palestinians is the item of interest.

I agree. Until their internal politics shakes out a clear winner, nothing can really happen. This clear winner also has to be someone that is not calling for the destruction of Israel...you cannot blame Israel for not negotiating with someone whose non-negotiable demand is the destruction of Israel.

 

[EagleKeeper]

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EK has evidently been asleep and now is doing nothing but whistling past a graveyard pretending

Then to add injury to insult, EK mis characterizes the letter from Abbas as multi-conditional on only Israel. When that letter is a binary choice for Israel, either agree to a real and complete settlement freeze, or the Pals will take their case to the UN. The same consistent position the Pales have had for years.

Maybe EK, can think of the Pals going to the UN as a evil zombie about to escape the graveyard, as others can think of the Pals going to the UN as a chicken that escaped while the Fox was guarding the hen house, but either way that Zombie or Chicken is coming to the UN and coming home to roost and stay.

After that time will tell.

So what does the letter offer that has not been said.

What are the Palestinians putting on the table. Nothing
What are the conditions for visiting the table? - Freeze before we will talk.

Is talking to the Palestinians so urgent/critical?

 

[yllus]

Abbas lays the gauntlet on the table to Netanyuhu? Is your tutor on Middle East affairs also giving you lessons on grammar and how best to mix your metaphors?

 

[Lemon law]

Everyone may doubt; yet who do they come knock on the door when they need help or screw the pooch.

Memories are very short when one needs to feed the child.

LL made all these predictions on how pissed off turkey was regarding the flotilla.

Yet they soon realized that Israel was better as a partner than an enemy.
They needed Israels help; the politicians balked; the people needs soon took a higher priority

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Maybe that EK quote is a perfect one to illustrate the disparities.

As Ek notes, "Memories are very short when one needs to feed the child." But whose child EK? Maybe you can say the USA feeds the Israeli child, but you can't possibly be talking about the Palestinian child or the Iranian child, or even the Egyptian child. As for the Turks, I see no signs that Turkey has forgiven Israel for it refusal to apologize for murdering 9 Turks on the high seas. As for Flotillas, they are no longer needed, now that Egypt no longer enforces the Israeli embargo of Gaza. As for the freedom flotillas, they have merely taken in a new form as peaceful and non violent protesters go to West Bank, and true to form, Israeli IDF jack booted thugs, use violent beating as a typical knee jerk reactions.

Ya we all know, the one particular IDF thug caught on Camera has been slapped on the wrist and temporarily suspended, as Israel pretends he is the only rouge in the IDF, when its the same typical IDF thugs who ran over Rachel Corrie with a bull Dozer, shoots American people who just happen to watch with tear gas canisters, and were aboard the Rachel Corrie when they murdered 9 Turks. Maybe the IDF is used to Palestinians fleeing in terror, but when they use he same tactics on a free people like Turks and Danes, surprise surprise, when they are not used to be treated as subhuman, so the IDF has to teach them a lesson.

Now Israel will have to defend their case in the UN, and the UN will pay as much attention to a Palestinian child compared to an Israeli child.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Why does Israel need to defend her case. It is the Palestinians that have to justify their arrogance in dismissing the recommendations of the quartet.