aahhhh! anyone know about plumbing/vents??

[zixxer]

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/cheesy/drainage.jpg

Now - I believe there is a p trap where the washer pipe goes into the slab - that's not in my pic though. However, since the run is so short I didn't add another p trap at the washer.


I understand what's happening - that the washer is venting through the toilet... (when the washer is draining the toilet gurgles and won't flush....)... so wtf... since it's just a hose stuck in the drain pipe what's the deal? I thought it didn't need vented?!

 

[zixxer]

mkay made a better pic


http://home.comcast.net/~jacobm77/drain.jpg

 

[FoBoT]

how old is the main drain line out of the house? when was the last time it was roto-rooted? do you know if it is tile or solid pipe? are there trees near the line or in the yard?

 

[MichaelD]

Well, by looking at your new pic, the only diff is the addition of the uncapped pipe for the small, future sink. It's creating a pressure diff that isn't making the rest of the devices on that line happy.

 

[shilala]

Change the 90's to 45's and it may alleviate the problem.
There's no substitute for proper venting. Code requires a vent within five feet of each fixture.

What's happening is when the washer dumps the water, it's piling up air in front of it.
Want to alleviate it, add a standpipe (indoor vent) on the other side of the elbows you added.
That's to say add a tee instead of the 90 by your sink. The vent should rise and tie into your existing vent system. If it can't, a standpipe is fine because there's a trap in the slab.

 

[shilala]

Picazoid...
http://home.adelphia.net/~shilala/drain2.jpg

 

[zixxer]

Originally posted by: shilala
Change the 90's to 45's and it may alleviate the problem.
There's no substitute for proper venting. Code requires a vent within five feet of each fixture.

What's happening is when the washer dumps the water, it's piling up air in front of it.
Want to alleviate it, add a standpipe (indoor vent) on the other side of the elbows you added.
That's to say add a tee instead of the 90 by your sink. The vent should rise and tie into your existing vent system. If it can't, a standpipe is fine because there's a trap in the slab.

Hah 1 step ahead of you...

http://home.comcast.net/~jacobm77/drain3.jpg

I just went and took an actual pic of this part:

http://home.comcast.net/~jacobm77/drain4.jpg (squared in yellow)



So - you're saying I need to add just a stand pipe - that wall will eventually be enclosed - so instead of a standpipe what about this:

http://home.comcast.net/~jacobm77/drain5.jpg

 

[zixxer]

also - what I don't get is why the 'future drain' for the sink (that is currently NOT capped..) is not basically serving as a vent? I know that the sink itself needs vented or an AAV - but until then I would have thought this would work fine

 

[shilala]

An autovent isn't going to get it here.
The air needs to be displaced. Think about the fluid dynamics going on here and you'll see what's happening.
An autovent only lets air INTO the drain lines, it doesn't let air get out.
You need to let air OUT.
Dig?

 

[Syrch]

Dude you have a big hole in yoru wall ^_^

 

[shilala]

Another thing...
If that drain is trapped beneath the floor, and then you trap the sink that you are installing in the future, the sink will not drain properly.
It will be sluggish and the line beneath will become clogged.

 

[zixxer]

Originally posted by: shilala
An autovent isn't going to get it here.
The air needs to be displaced. Think about the fluid dynamics going on here and you'll see what's happening.
An autovent only lets air INTO the drain lines, it doesn't let air get out.
You need to let air OUT.
Dig?

Hmm... so why isn't the open drain for the sink not letting that air out? it's a 2" dwv just like the drain...


Also from your other response - I believe the old standpipe is trapped beneath the floor. This is why I didn't trap the washer. So - it's okay to just send the sink drain straight into the wall and down?

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: zixxer

Originally posted by: shilala
An autovent isn't going to get it here.
The air needs to be displaced. Think about the fluid dynamics going on here and you'll see what's happening.
An autovent only lets air INTO the drain lines, it doesn't let air get out.
You need to let air OUT.
Dig?

Hmm... so why isn't the open drain for the sink not letting that air out? it's a 2" dwv just like the drain...


Also from your other response - I believe the old standpipe is trapped beneath the floor. This is why I didn't trap the washer. So - it's okay to just send the sink drain straight into the wall and down?

It may be because you don't have the proper fall between the washer and the sink, it could be that the drains beneath the floor are not properly vented.
Sometimes you can get away with stuff because of the way water is running in the pipes.
In risers, water runs down the insides of the pipe. It doesn't splash around. It forms a sheet on the wall of the pipe.
When you had the water running straight down, air could vent back up the center of the pipe.
Now, you have a logjam effect where the water is piling against the joints. The flow of air is no longer smooth and that's where problems start.
There probably isn't anything you can do about it aside from trying to arrange the piping in a fashion that alleviates the backing up of the water. Using 45s to build long sweep 90s helps.
I think I said earlier that there's no substitute for proper venting. There really isn't. Honest.

On your other question...
Yes, you'll have to.
If you put a trap under the sink it will drive you nuts.

Oh, here's another thing that may help...
Make sure that washer drain isn't tight. The loop should just fall into the pipe. Don't create an air-proof connection. That way some air can get in and out.

Another thing that may help is to keep the washer standpipe nice and high. That will allow the water going down the drain to create that sheeting action I mentioned earlier.

 

[Squisher]

Are you sure there isn't a stack vent coming out of the roof in the general vicinity?

Go look at your roof. It should look like a straight pipe coming out of the roof. If it's there it's probably plugged (leaves, birds nest, bees nest, etc.).

:music:Roto-rooter that's the name and flush your troubles down the drain:music:

If there isn't one, go slap the builder first, but then you can install an interior vent. It's not too big of a job.

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/bathdrainwastevent

 

[zixxer]

Yes - there is a main vent stack - it goes up behind the upstairs bathroom, and is one pipe going into the attic - on the total opposite side of the house.. I think the vents are all routed in the basement - or walls? Either way it's not the attic.



I'm a little concerned that the shower/toilet/sink are all vented off an AAV that's under the sink cabinet. I can't really verify this without tearing out the walls - I'm going to try taking off the aav and see if I can feel air sucked in when I flush the toilet - which means it is vented through that.




Either way I think it's very odd that I didn't have this issue the way the washer was plumbed before. In theory I haven't 'techically' changed the way the water goes down the drain. I have the slope fairly steep (about 1/2" per foot or so) and all of the curves are nice and wide to keep things flowing quickly.

http://home.comcast.net/~jacobm77/drain6.jpg

 

[Squisher]

Well after looking at your second pic, washer has the ultimate venting now that there is a "-future drain- for small sink, Currently uncapped" so vent the washer has is working better than ever. Maybe, the washer water wasn't vented before so it flowed so slowly that there wasn't any venturi effect where that drain entered the main drain. .

Try putting a cap in that uncapped pipe and see what happens. Even a baggy and a rubberband will work.

The vent should be in the wall behind the toilet, if not I'm sure there is a plumbing work around to provide venting.

 

[zixxer]

Originally posted by: Squisher
Well after looking at your second pic, washer has the ultimate venting now that there is a "-future drain- for small sink, Currently uncapped" so vent the washer has is working better than ever. Maybe, the washer water wasn't vented before so it flowed so slowly that there wasn't any venturi effect where that drain entered the main drain. .

Try putting a cap in that uncapped pipe and see what happens. Even a baggy and a rubberband will work.

The vent should be in the wall behind the toilet, if not I'm sure there is a plumbing work around to provide venting.

ahh lol already tried capping the sink outlet - and still... the toilet will not flush while the washer is draining. it acts like it's clogged. I'm seriously thinking about just tearing the damn sheetrock off from above the toilet and seeing how it's vented.

 

[zixxer]

I wonder if the drain line in the slab foundation floor is slightly clogged or something - should I try using drain cleaner down this line?

 

[Squisher]

I'd try snaking out the vent in the roof and if that doesn't work I'd pop off the toilet and run a snake down the drain.

 

[bctbct]

I doubt this is a clogged drain. My guess is that you have increased the volume of air by extending the drain line when you moved the washer and dryer. Before you had X amount of air volume to push thru the pipe, now you have much more.

1/8 to 1/4 inch of fall is standard to scour the side of the pipe and provide proper drainage, 1/2 inch per foot could be too much.


Proper venting should have the pipe above the elbow inlet you added continuing straight up. Depending on your pipe configuration you may be able to tap an existing vent pipe above.

 

[zixxer]

Originally posted by: bctbct
I doubt this is a clogged drain. My guess is that you have increased the volume of air by extending the drain line when you moved the washer and dryer. Before you had X amount of air volume to push thru the pipe, now you have much more.

1/8 to 1/4 inch of fall is standard to scour the side of the pipe and provide proper drainage, 1/2 inch per foot could be too much.


Proper venting should have the pipe above the elbow inlet you added continuing straight up. Depending on your pipe configuration you may be able to tap an existing vent pipe above.

that makes sense except how it is now there is no way at all it isn't vented enough. Since the sink isn't installed yet there's effectively a 2 inch vent for a 2 inch drain

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: zixxer

ahh lol already tried capping the sink outlet - and still... the toilet will not flush while the washer is draining. it acts like it's clogged. I'm seriously thinking about just tearing the damn sheetrock off from above the toilet and seeing how it's vented.

Borrow a seesnake and dvr the results. Publish on youtube with fart noises dubbed in for fun. :laugh:

 

[AlienCraft]

You're wrong. It needs to be vented.