A8N-SLI Deluxe: many defective boards identified

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MrVeedo

Senior member
Mar 9, 2004
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Thats becasue its a !SINGLE FVCKING RAIL
(and only the new 600Ws are dual channel).

Do your god-damn research before you shoot at someone else and clog up the thread

man, whats your problem? no one here is clogging a thread but you by saying something liek that. to your comment: exactly: 600s are dual rail, sorry i didnt specify. its a good discussion, you could probobly learn something, so sit back, read and take a pill.

if anyone has a dual rail psu, and has problems, get out your multi meter measure voltage in various places, idle and loaded. if voltage is fluctuating majorly, start to draw conclusions then. has anyone even done this, that owns a new dual 12v rail psu?
 

jelliott

Member
Jan 1, 2005
72
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Originally posted by: FastEddie
[

F4810 This still applies. The dual rail psu's don't have variable amp 12v rails, where if one real needs more amps, it can draw it from the other. These dual rails are fixed which is why they list max amps on each of the two rails. The AUX 12 connector (CPU) can't majically send the needed amps on through trace paths that don't exist.

IM guessing then even if the rails are adjustable, that wouldnt matter? Meaning, I could turn them up a bit more..??
 

Vtach

Member
Jan 19, 2005
37
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Ok i just read maximum pc my new issue and it said the ezplug should be used cause it will draw the extra power from there with out using the needed converter plug from 20-24.... Dont yell at me this is what they said so I tried it to see what would happen .... duno yet let ya know soon....
 

FastEddie

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,946
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Originally posted by: jelliott
nevermind.. both rails are on the same 12v pot..


That would be the perfect dual rail psu, if the rails could be adjusted to provide the ATX connector 22a on the 12v, and the 12v AUX connector 14a. That would be a psu designed for SLI.
 

FastEddie

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,946
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And you may get there with that psu. It's the only dual rail psu that packs 20a at the ATX connectors 12v pin. But if you have stability issues---that's where it will lay. ;)
 

jelliott

Member
Jan 1, 2005
72
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ok.. another silly question. (because I'm trying to learn something here)

If the 20a and 18a are "basically 20 amps max".. would the combined wattage be 240 watts or 456 watts? (Provided you have them maxed out)

and if they were maxed out, what would prevent the 18a rail from going to 20a, since they are one in the same?

 

FastEddie

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,946
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That's part of my point! Watts really don't mean that much, it's the amperage that's important. There are 350watt psu's that have 26a on the 12v rail---they may play very close to 100% efficiency watt wise, but the amps are there. I wouldn't want to run a psu at 100% efficiency as there is no margin to play with. If the needed rail maxes at 20amp and the board calls for 22amp, for just a microsecond, you'll have a problem.

These boards don't really need the most expensive top of the line psu's, but the single rail design that provides 26a on the 12v rail is optimal. That will put a user in the 80-90% efficiency level, which won't damage the psu, or cause the stability problems we've been seeing. A psu with 35a on the 12v rail would be slightly better, as it moves you to a 70% efficiency level----less stress on the psu.

Wait, the high end psu manufacturers will design a psu specially for these SLI boards. It just irks me that a companies marketing dept. slaps an SLI sticker on a dual rail unit that's running two 15a 12v rails and think they can capitalize on an emerging market.
 

jelliott

Member
Jan 1, 2005
72
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ok.. i think i am starting to follow a bit more now. thanks for the reply without the need for a flame resistant suit. :)

I will see how this works out tomorrow and then go from there...
 

83racecrew

Junior Member
Jan 19, 2005
3
0
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Guitardaddy...you talk about reading an electronics book....apparently you should as well.

A computer power supply does nothing more than convert your AC electricity into DC.

Power is power (measured in watts), whether it is AC or DC...so if the specs of a PSU are something like 10A @ 120VAC (or 110V whichever you prefer to use) then you have available 1200 watts of POWER (120*10) when you convert it to 12VDC for example you would have 100A @ 12VDC because you have to balance the equation (120*10 = 12*100)...that is in a perfect world...the conversion process will make the right side of the equation a lower number due to loss in the circuits, etc. If we convert the AC to 24VDC the equation would be (120*10 = 24*50).


Originally posted by Guitardaddy:
"putting two sources together with the same flow rate doesn't double the flow rate. "

Your reference to fire hoses earlier......if I have 2 hoses flowing 80gal per min each.....how many gallons per minute will I be dumping on the ground ? ..... I believe your answer would be 80 but there is no way that is correct...the answer is 160 gals per min would be flowing onto the ground or into whatever I want to put it in. How could you possibly say I would only get 80 gal per min from 2 hoses?????????? Each hose would fill an 80 gal cont in 1 min....therefore at the end of that min I would have 160 gals of water...right????

Originally posted by Guitardaddy:
"Wattage is like volume, Ampherage is like water pressure, If you add a second hose you are certainly increasing the volume but you are not increasing the pressure"

With that said.....VOLTAGE is the "pressure" in an electrical circuit....AMPERAGE is the "volume"....not the other way around....if you find one of those books about electricity...you will find that exact reference.


So back to the fire hoses.....if hose 1 is at 100 psi....and hose 2 is at 200 psi...both flowing 80 gal per min.....which one has more power??? ding ding ding....hose 2 does because it has twice as much pressure at the same flow rate which leads me into .....circuit A = 120V @ 10A vs circuit B = 240V @ 10A ...which has more POWER (watts).....Cicuit B does because 240*10 = 2400 vs 120*10 = 1200.

I hope this clears up some misinformation given in this thread. :)

83
 

FastEddie

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,946
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83racecrew--I understand you completely! But for alot of people here, you've just clouded this issue tremendously. :)
 

jelliott

Member
Jan 1, 2005
72
0
0
How about for example.. and this may not make any sense to anyone but me.. but i will try.

IF the 12v leads all came from the same solder/same power source point in the PSU, i understand they would be all the same amps. thats a gimmie..

BUT, if infact the rails come from different solder points, different sources in the PSU, that would infact mean you would add the amps up in a dual rail system. 20+18=38amps.. or am i not grabbing the concept.. in my little mind, it makes sense. lol
 

Dug

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2000
3,469
6
81
Originally posted by: 83racecrew
Guitardaddy...you talk about reading an electronics book....apparently you should as well.

A computer power supply does nothing more than convert your AC electricity into DC.

Power is power (measured in watts), whether it is AC or DC...so if the specs of a PSU are something like 10A @ 120VAC (or 110V whichever you prefer to use) then you have available 1200 watts of POWER (120*10) when you convert it to 12VDC for example you would have 100A @ 12VDC because you have to balance the equation (120*10 = 12*100)...that is in a perfect world...the conversion process will make the right side of the equation a lower number due to loss in the circuits, etc. If we convert the AC to 24VDC the equation would be (120*10 = 24*50).


Originally posted by Guitardaddy:
"putting two sources together with the same flow rate doesn't double the flow rate. "

Your reference to fire hoses earlier......if I have 2 hoses flowing 80gal per min each.....how many gallons per minute will I be dumping on the ground ? ..... I believe your answer would be 80 but there is no way that is correct...the answer is 160 gals per min would be flowing onto the ground or into whatever I want to put it in. How could you possibly say I would only get 80 gal per min from 2 hoses?????????? Each hose would fill an 80 gal cont in 1 min....therefore at the end of that min I would have 160 gals of water...right????

Originally posted by Guitardaddy:
"Wattage is like volume, Ampherage is like water pressure, If you add a second hose you are certainly increasing the volume but you are not increasing the pressure"

With that said.....VOLTAGE is the "pressure" in an electrical circuit....AMPERAGE is the "volume"....not the other way around....if you find one of those books about electricity...you will find that exact reference.


So back to the fire hoses.....if hose 1 is at 100 psi....and hose 2 is at 200 psi...both flowing 80 gal per min.....which one has more power??? ding ding ding....hose 2 does because it has twice as much pressure at the same flow rate which leads me into .....circuit A = 120V @ 10A vs circuit B = 240V @ 10A ...which has more POWER (watts).....Cicuit B does because 240*10 = 2400 vs 120*10 = 1200.

I hope this clears up some misinformation given in this thread. :)

83


83racecrew is absolutely correct.
 

FastEddie

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,946
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0
Originally posted by: jelliott
How about for example.. and this may not make any sense to anyone but me.. but i will try.

IF the 12v leads all came from the same solder/same power source point in the PSU, i understand they would be all the same amps. thats a gimmie..

BUT, if infact the rails come from different solder points, different sources in the PSU, that would infact mean you would add the amps up in a dual rail system. 20+18=38amps.. or am i not grabbing the concept.. in my little mind, it makes sense. lol

Dual Rail = Dual Source. If both lines were connected to the same source, that would be single rail. The problem with the dual rail is in maxing out one of the rails. There is no way to combine the two seperate rails. That's where the OCZ Tech errored. The 12v AUX connector is a seperate rail of the two rails, and there is no way to combine it to the amps being supplied to the board on the second rail, via the ATX power connector. The motherboard circuitry from the 12v AUX doesn't allow for that.

 

jelliott

Member
Jan 1, 2005
72
0
0
with the OCZ 600 for instance, you have the 4 pin above the cpu, you have the 24 pin and then 1 6 pin and 2 hdd/vga..

My plans are 1 6 pin to 6800gt the 2 hdd/vga to the other 6800gt.. My understanding is that the 6 pin and the 2 hdd/vga's are on different rails.. i am probably wrong, but that was my basis for getting a dual rail. Like i said, im probably wrong..

I guess my problem is, i dont know what rail has what on it. I ASSUMED the way i was going to do it was the right way to get the 38 amps...
 

83racecrew

Junior Member
Jan 19, 2005
3
0
0
Jelliot.....reread your thread back at BE.....SteveOCZ said that the 20A rail flows through the ATX connector and the 18A rail...is through the molex's AND the 12V aux connector (the 4 pin plug you plug into the mobo) Thats how they are getting all 38A if necessary to the mobo (zoinks 38a into the mobo !!)
 

FastEddie

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,946
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0
Originally posted by: 83racecrew
Jelliot.....reread your thread back at BE.....SteveOCZ said that the 20A rail flows through the ATX connector and the 18A rail...is through the molex's AND the 12V aux connector (the 4 pin plug you plug into the mobo) Thats how they are getting all 38A if necessary to the mobo (zoinks 38a into the mobo !!)

It's a hell of alot. The board doesn't need anything close to that. IF the PCI-E power connector (molex converters, etc...) is coming from the 12v AUX rail, then it's taking less stress off of the 20a being supplied via the 20-pin ATX connector's 12v pin. But you aren't reducing the 100% efficiency from that second 20amp 12v rail (the ATX 20-oin connector) buy much. If that second rail had 24 or 25amp on it for the 12v, then it would give you enough headroom on that rail where you shouldn't ever see a problem with saturating or maxing out the psu.

 

FastEddie

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,946
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Oh, and to clarify. The PCI-E molex connector, to assist in SLI, only lights up the second PCI-E port---where I'm not sure it even provides any power to the primary PCI-E port. Use a single card inserted in the secondary PCI-E port, flip the selector to dual mode, and power on. I'm not even sure it'll post without a power message.
 

jelliott

Member
Jan 1, 2005
72
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0
Originally posted by: FastEddie
Oh, and to clarify. The PCI-E molex connector, to assist in SLI, only lights up the second PCI-E port---where I'm not sure it even provides any power to the primary PCI-E port. Use a single card inserted in the secondary PCI-E port, flip the selector to dual mode, and power on. I'm not even sure it'll post without a power message.


i suppose youre talking about the "EZ connector above the PCI-E slots?