A8N-SLI Deluxe: many defective boards identified

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
Most everyone having power related problems with this board seem to fall in 2 categories

1. Dual Rail Power Supplies - They are terrible for this board! This board needs 25a to the motherboard. the best dual rail I've seen is 20a and 18a. Most are like 15a and 15a. And regardless of what anybody tells you 15a + 15a = 15a, not 30a. Replace your power supply with a quality single rail PS and your problems will go away. Dual rail power supplies where made for, and best suited for servers supporting multiple hard drive arrays, not SLI motherboards supporting dual graphics cards.

2. Offbrand(cheap) power supplies. Just in the posts you reference I noted AKASA and ULTRA Xconnect. The ULTRA Xconnect has only been out a few months and is already legendary for its poor quality.
With the incredible power requirement created by 2 high end graphics cards using anything less than a top quality power supply rated >=25a from the top makers Antec, Enermax, Fortron, OCZ, Seasonic, PC P&C, etc... is just asking for trouble.
 

mrscintilla

Senior member
Dec 11, 2004
239
0
0

mofrack

Member
Jan 11, 2005
142
0
0
I can also confirm that with a quality single 12V rail PSU, my A8N-SLI Deluxe has not had any power problems of any kind to date. Unless Asus or a top distributor recalls a batch of mobos from market, or starts RMAing them with no questions asked, I think any info of bad boards making it to market is BS.
 

FastEddie

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,946
0
0
[rant mode[rm]
The number one Hardware problem has been power supplies. You get alot of symptomatic issues with a psu not up to the task, (locking up in the bios, inability to save a bios change once in the bios, no video on boot, bsods when transfering large files to and from the disk). Bad power will also mimic symptomatic behavior is other components leading the user to believe that they have bad ram, bad video cards, bad hardrives, (perfect example was a raid0+1 configuration where the user kept loosing the array via BSODS in windoze. Everytime the psu was pressed to write to four drives at the same time would bring a BSOD). He just couldn't understand that his name brand psu, that had 15a on the 12v rail, was stressed to the max. It's almost gotten to the point with me that I'll ask what psu someone is running first, so I don't have to spend five or six hours chasing those phantom symptoms!

And no, it's not always the power supply, but when doing the math and when that math adds up that the psu is currently running at 95% capacity on one particular voltage rail---I mean, that really doesn't leave much room for error on a units written specs.

The number one non-hardware problem has been that glitch found between the keyboard and the chair. I mean, why do peeps think they can take a hardrive out of a functioning P4 system, stick it in a brand new build without a reformat and a reinstall of the os, then want to rma their new board because they can't get it to boot into windoze without BSODS or the big freeze. Another common glitch between those two physical spots was to install XP, load everything that came on the Asus cd (EVERYTHING--i.e., active armour, etc), then have the box lock up halfway through the autoupdate of SP2! I mean, at lease turn the firewall off, if you can't wait till you have a functioning OS before installing everything under the sun!
[rant mode[/rm]

The perfect example TheNiceGuy, you linked to the perfect example of what I'm talking about. The Akasa 460-watt, PaxPower, ATX v2.0 PSU only has 15a on the 12v rail. And they are rma'ing parts because of it. I mean that's just down right stupid!


But you know, we are a community and here to help one another. And damn sure ain't getting paid for this. :laugh:
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
0
0
Had to read this post because I am contemplating buying the A8N. Can somebody explain what is meant when you say "dual rail" or "single rail" power supply? Want to make sure I get the right kind so I don't have potential to run into this problem. Where does it say on the specs or how can I tell if the PSU is a single rail? Thanks!
 

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
I feel you pain FastEddie. If some of these folks would do just a little research and planning! Come on! Read a book or something! Maybe, like computer building guide or ...hmm...... the manual!

The mind is such a terrible thing to waste! :D
 

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
Originally posted by: ahurtt
Had to read this post because I am contemplating buying the A8N. Can somebody explain what is meant when you say "dual rail" or "single rail" power supply? Want to make sure I get the right kind so I don't have potential to run into this problem. Where does it say on the specs or how can I tell if the PSU is a single rail? Thanks!

Dual rail PS should be advertized as such. Most PS's are single rail, if it doesn't say chances are 99% its a single rail. All power supplies list the amps on the 12v on the box, or in the spec sheets, and most places like Newegg, Zipzoomfly etc... list this info on there for sale pages. Just make sure you get one with at least 18-20a for a single card system, or 25a and up if you ever want to SLI
 

FastEddie

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,946
0
0
Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
I feel you pain FastEddie. If some of these folks would do just a little research and planning! Come on! Read a book or something! Maybe, like computer building guide or ...hmm...... the manual!

The mind is such a terrible thing to waste! :D

The guy in the link, this Sander Sassen, is the CEO of Hardware Analysis! I sent him an email explaining why he's having such a problem with the board. I did the math for him too. He's trying to take 22a off a 12v rail that will only supply 15a---and that 15amp at peak load. No, they don't read the manual, they don't have to---he's a friggin' CEO, why should he read the stinkin' manual.

:roll: :laugh:
 

Insomniak

Banned
Sep 11, 2003
4,836
0
0
FastEddie is spot on.

People don't seem to realize that building a new PC is a several day process. My setup went like this:


Day 1:

Assemble PC, and do first boot to BIOS. Enter BIOS, and let system remain there while checking to make sure all LEDs are functional, no warning LEDs on the motherboard, ensure that all fans are spinning and that Hard Disk spindle is spinning. Verify in BIOS that all voltages are within spec, and all temperatures are in acceptable ranges.

Insert WinXP install disk, and test reset button. Reset button works. Boot from CD, and install windows XP. Install drivers for system devices, and call it a night.


Day 2:

First cold boot. Observe post for errors. Boot into windows. Spend the next 3-4 hours configuring windows to taste, installing security updates, and installing essential burn-in and stability testing software.

Lunch.

Reboot, enter and configure BIOS. Boot to windows.

Begin stability testing. Run ASUS Probe and Prime95 together to test/burn-in CPU while keeping an eye on voltages and temperatures. After a good 3 hours with no errors, CPU can be called stable at stock.

Run Memtest to at least 1000% coverage (10 complete cycles of testing). If no errors, memory is stable at stock.

Loop 3dmark03 for a good 2-3 hours. If no issues, GPU is stable at stock. Start up a second Prime 95 run and call it a night, letting Prime run til dawn.


Day 3:

Install/configure/patch commonly used programs and games. Post installations, run a disk cleanup, spyware scan, registry cleanup, and defragment all drives involved. Reboot.


[[Digression: By now, the system should be good and burned in, and you'll know for sure if you have any stability issues, or other problems. To be extra sure, over the next two nights I run a 3dmark03 loop, and a MemTest in order to double check GPU/memory for long uptimes. Things go fine, all is well. ]]

At this point, you'll want to double check all your voltages and temps. If possible, do it across a variety of programs to checkl for consistency. I use a menagerie composed of SANDRA, Everest, CPU-Z, nTune, System BIOS, and ASUS Probe.


If all has been/is well, begin normal system use.










That was my 3 day setup and check. Then you go into Overclocking, which is really like a second setup all in itself as you change settings and re-test for stability.

The bottom line about system builds is this: You can't rush it. We all love getting new toys, but do it right, and you'll have far fewer headaches, and far greater enjoyment.
 

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
Originally posted by: ahurtt
Good to know. So going with what you said above, something like this:

http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=20430

should do the trick if I decide to go with SLI video cards on this board?

Thats a good choice for a basic SLI system, it has 26a on the 12v. If you were going to run several hard drives and extra devices and a pair of 6800's you might want the 550 watt model. I use the Antec 550 and its rock solid on this board
 

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
Great! Great! post Imsomniak.

That needs to be posted as a sticky in the Technical Support Forum. If everyone followed your instructions
there would be much peace and happiness in the in the cyber world:sun:
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
0
0
Thanks GuitarDaddy. I saw that antec TruePower 430 and it looked like it had enough amperage for less than $100 and I trust Antec. But I couldn't find if this PSU has a 24 pin connector or not. Does it matter much?
 

Insomniak

Banned
Sep 11, 2003
4,836
0
0
Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
Great! Great! post Imsomniak.

That needs to be posted as a sticky in the Technical Support Forum. If everyone followed your instructions
there would be much peace and happiness in the in the cyber world:sun:



Actually, if you'll give me a bit, I'd rather post a complete guide with links to useful programs and guides. Stay tuned...I'll see if I can manage that by tomorrow.
 

FastEddie

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,946
0
0
We'll have to make it a sticky then, for sure! ;)

You have it Insomniak, to take one's time in the build lends to much better results in a stable system. I've crunched out boxes, using the same board and near identical components, to build a couple three of them a day---but never in the first experience with a board. The only way you can discover if a board has quirks is to follow some semblance of order in putting it all together. And GuitarDaddy is right----the manual is there for a reason. In this case though, the manual may have hindered a little, placing more emphasis on watts rather than amps. ;)
 

Vedder323

Member
Nov 1, 2004
136
0
0
" [rant mode[rm]
The number one Hardware problem has been power supplies. You get alot of symptomatic issues with a psu not up to the task, (locking up in the bios, inability to save a bios change once in the bios, no video on boot, bsods when transfering large files to and from the disk). Bad power will also mimic symptomatic behavior is other components leading the user to believe that they have bad ram, bad video cards, bad hardrives, (perfect example was a raid0+1 configuration where the user kept loosing the array via BSODS in windoze. Everytime the psu was pressed to write to four drives at the same time would bring a BSOD). He just couldn't understand that his name brand psu, that had 15a on the 12v rail, was stressed to the max. It's almost gotten to the point with me that I'll ask what psu someone is running first, so I don't have to spend five or six hours chasing those phantom symptoms!

And no, it's not always the power supply, but when doing the math and when that math adds up that the psu is currently running at 95% capacity on one particular voltage rail---I mean, that really doesn't leave much room for error on a units written specs.

The number one non-hardware problem has been that glitch found between the keyboard and the chair. I mean, why do peeps think they can take a hardrive out of a functioning P4 system, stick it in a brand new build without a reformat and a reinstall of the os, then want to rma their new board because they can't get it to boot into windoze without BSODS or the big freeze. Another common glitch between those two physical spots was to install XP, load everything that came on the Asus cd (EVERYTHING--i.e., active armour, etc), then have the box lock up halfway through the autoupdate of SP2! I mean, at lease turn the firewall off, if you can't wait till you have a functioning OS before installing everything under the sun!
[rant mode[/rm]

The perfect example TheNiceGuy, you linked to the perfect example of what I'm talking about. The Akasa 460-watt, PaxPower, ATX v2.0 PSU only has 15a on the 12v rail. And they are rma'ing parts because of it. I mean that's just down right stupid!


But you know, we are a community and here to help one another. And damn sure ain't getting paid for this. "

And I assume you are gonna tell me my 2ND! board with all these issues as described are from my 510 deluxe???

 

mofrack

Member
Jan 11, 2005
142
0
0
PC Power and Cooling are not perfect by any means. That said, theres a much better chance of something being wrong with a mass produced motherboard than with a hand-assembled and tested power supply (especially one of the best on the market).

However, I have not had ANY problem getting my A8N SLI board to behave, not have I ever had a problem running an Asus motherboard at stock. Overclocking is another story, but when choosing any hardware, overclocing performance is never gauranteed.

What problems have you been experiencing with this motherboard?
 

Insomniak

Banned
Sep 11, 2003
4,836
0
0
Well, I started writing the guide, and assuming nothing major occurs, I should have it ready for tomorrow. I'll plaster it up in a few forums and we'll see if demands for stickying follow.
 

TheNiceGuy

Golden Member
Dec 23, 2004
1,569
3
81
Thanks guys!
weeks of chasing errors, hopefully solved in one thread! I'll get a new, single rail PSU. Ahurt, I am looking at the same PSU, and also wondering if the pins are OK. Guitar Daddy (helpful as always):

"1. Dual Rail Power Supplies - They are terrible for this board! This board needs 25a to the motherboard. the best dual rail I've seen is 20a and 18a. Most are like 15a and 15a. And regardless of what anybody tells you 15a + 15a = 15a, not 30a. Replace your power supply with a quality single rail PS and your problems will go away. Dual rail power supplies where made for, and best suited for servers supporting multiple hard drive arrays, not SLI motherboards supporting dual graphics cards. "

This is the first time I have heard this info (ans very useful at that). I was under the distinct impression that 2 rails are better that one from all the sites I read. I will get a new PSU.
In my own defense, I spent about 2 months researching/planing before I bought this system. I am new to computers. Also, here I live, I have to get ALL my info from sites like this. I can't go to a big shop in the city and yak the knowledgable guys ear off gleaning tips and info. Returning merchandise for any reason is also very difficult. Additionaly, components are often in Japanese, so I have to book a translator to help me with even basic manuals.

So, once again, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
 

Insomniak

Banned
Sep 11, 2003
4,836
0
0
No problem.

The thing about dual rails is this: While together two 15A rails have 30 amps, you can't connect both rails to one device, so it's basically the same as if you're hooking up all your 12v connections to a PSU with a single 15A 12v rail...or at least, that's how the devices see it.

Thus, each rail can probably only handle 2-3 devices without issue. For people running 3 HDDs, 2 optical drives, 3 case fans, a high end graphics card, and a fan controller, that's just not enough. The rails can't draw enough power, and stability problems ensue.

Think about it like this: Watts are how MUCH power your PSU can deliver, but amps on each rail is HOW OFTEN it gets delivered. If your device needs 4 deliveries per second but can only get two, it's not going to work, even if the deliveries are the right size.
 

Samus

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2001
1,405
7
81
Originally posted by: Insomniak
+1 vote for the A8N-SLI. Very happy with mine.

I had problems until I replaced my Soyo 400-watt power supply with a H|E|C 475-watt ATX/EPS PSU...

BTW guys, even most cheap power supply's are single rail, dual rail power supplies doesn't mean low quality, it just means its for a different application and isn't designed for a PC with a lot of random/spontanious activity.
 

user1234

Banned
Jul 11, 2004
2,428
0
0
Hmmm.... My Antec TRUE380S shows on the unit only 18A on the +12V line, but the Antec spec web page says 24A - maybe it's a newer model (but with the same name) ? Anyway, I only have a single 6600GT and never had power related problems. I did encounter the POST bug in 1003.005 beta bios which I'm sure a lot of people use since it's on ASUS website. Although it is beta, this is such a horrible bug (not being able to POST after disconnecting and reconnecting the power cable), they should never have released it. It gave me as well as many other people a few anxious moments. And I read many people returned or replaced the board because of it, even though it's possible to fix it by flashing to a good version. But apart from that stressful episode, the board has been great on performance, stability, and overclocking tools.

And btw Insomniak, I suggest you modify the guide to include Linux, as it is a far more efficient OS then windows, which ends up consuming a lot of your time, so it's really a waste spending 4 hour to configure it.