A64 3400+ New Retail @ $320 Good Deal?

[irenealan]

I can get a deal on a New A64 3400+ Retail @ $320, should I get it or save $100 to get a 3000+ and OC it? Is it a good price for the 3400+? or should I wait for the 939 chipset?

Is there really much performance different between the 754 and 939? Also which motherboard would you guys recommend for moderate OC? A Shuttle AN50R or the Gigabyte GA-K8NPRO?

Very much thanks for your rapid response as I need to close the deal soon if I really need to get it thanks!

 

[myocardia]

Of course that's a good deal. Are you sure it isn't a rebadged 3200 though? If it isn't, pick one up for me too. The only bad thing about the socket 754, compared to the socket 939 is that the nForce 3-250 will only be for the socket 939 chips, so you don't get a locked pci & agp bus now. But getting a retail 3400 for $320 bucks pretty much negates that drawback, in my mind, since it doesn't really even need to be overclocked. Plus, it will overclock more for each mhz of raised fsb, because of the higher multiplier. That means that it's really the best socket 754 chip to buy, if you want to overclock (and have that much money!).

 

[stardust]

Originally posted by: myocardia
Of course that's a good deal. Are you sure it isn't a rebadged 3200 though? If it isn't, pick one up for me too. The only bad thing about the socket 754, compared to the socket 939 is that the nForce 3-250 will only be for the socket 939 chips, so you don't get a locked pci & agp bus now. But getting a retail 3400 for $320 bucks pretty much negates that drawback, in my mind, since it doesn't really even need to be overclocked. Plus, it will overclock more for each mhz of raised fsb, because of the higher multiplier. That means that it's really the best socket 754 chip to buy, if you want to overclock (and have that much money!).

The nf3-250 should be available for socket754, read anandtech's review. The 939 addes dual channel memory, but looses half the cache.

 

[Shimmishim]

Originally posted by: irenealan
I can get a deal on a New A64 3400+ Retail @ $320, should I get it or save $100 to get a 3000+ and OC it? Is it a good price for the 3400+? or should I wait for the 939 chipset?

Is there really much performance different between the 754 and 939? Also which motherboard would you guys recommend for moderate OC? A Shuttle AN50R or the Gigabyte GA-K8NPRO?

Very much thanks for your rapid response as I need to close the deal soon if I really need to get it thanks!

1. $320 for a 3400+ is a great price! I have a 3200+ which I paid $272 for and it's still about that price at newegg. However, I just purchased a 3000+ newcastle to see if it'll o/c any better. If you look at benchmarks, the extra 512k's of L2 cache don't help out in performance as much as I had originally thought. Looking at all the AT reviews on the newcastle and clawhammer, it just didn't impress me so I opted for a 3000+ instead and saved $60 bucks. I'm hoping to push this 3000+ to 2.7 ghz or higher.

2. The biggest change about the 939 chip besides the number of pins will be the availablility of dual channel boards. I'm not quite sure how soon the 939 is expected to come out but if you REALLY want to get an A64 system right now, then just do it!!! I highly recommend the Shuttle AN50R. It's a great overclocking board though it does lack in vcore and vdimm options (vcore up to 1.7 and vdimm up to 2.9 or 2.8). Also, A64 754 socket nforce3 250 will be released soon.

 

[myocardia]

Seriously? I had heard (but you know how rumors are) that the nForce3-250 was only going to be for the 939's. Hmmm, I may have to see how good of a price I can get on a socket 754 chip, then! Because dual-channel makes almost no difference with the A64's, even less than the cache, it seems (unless you're doing video encoding, then it makes a huge difference).

 

[irenealan]

Thanks Myocardia but how can a 3400+ be a rebadged 3200+ since one operates at 2.2 and the other works at 2.0? Thanks for your help!

So based on what you are saying for a A64 chip, the Cache or dual channel won't matter much... but the clock speed is what matters most for performance?

Originally posted by: myocardia
Of course that's a good deal. Are you sure it isn't a rebadged 3200 though? If it isn't, pick one up for me too. The only bad thing about the socket 754, compared to the socket 939 is that the nForce 3-250 will only be for the socket 939 chips, so you don't get a locked pci & agp bus now. But getting a retail 3400 for $320 bucks pretty much negates that drawback, in my mind, since it doesn't really even need to be overclocked. Plus, it will overclock more for each mhz of raised fsb, because of the higher multiplier. That means that it's really the best socket 754 chip to buy, if you want to overclock (and have that much money!).

 

[myocardia]

Okay, sorry, I forgot to specify. Dual-channel seems to make no difference at all in performance (for now, anyway). And the amount of level 2 cache makes <1% difference in all applications, except in video encoding. That's where the 1MB level 2 cache makes a pretty big difference.

edit: And a rebadged chip is a chip that's just been modified to be overclocked when it's installed, so it runs at a higher multiplier, and makes the person buying it think it's the faster chip. Of course, if you aren't going to be overclocking, it's not going to make a difference to you anyway.

 

[stardust]

Originally posted by: irenealan
Thanks Myocardia but how can a 3400+ be a rebadged 3200+ since one operates at 2.2 and the other works at 2.0? Thanks for your help!

So based on what you are saying for a A64 chip, the Cache or dual channel won't matter much... but the clock speed is what matters most for performance?

Originally posted by: myocardia
Of course that's a good deal. Are you sure it isn't a rebadged 3200 though? If it isn't, pick one up for me too. The only bad thing about the socket 754, compared to the socket 939 is that the nForce 3-250 will only be for the socket 939 chips, so you don't get a locked pci & agp bus now. But getting a retail 3400 for $320 bucks pretty much negates that drawback, in my mind, since it doesn't really even need to be overclocked. Plus, it will overclock more for each mhz of raised fsb, because of the higher multiplier. That means that it's really the best socket 754 chip to buy, if you want to overclock (and have that much money!).

Based on AMD rumors, some new chips are going to be released as "handicapped" CPUs. 2.2ghz w/ 512kb Cache badged as 3200+. I haven't seen any of them yet. Think of those CPU's as the equivalent of radeon 9800SE models.

 

[irenealan]

Yes Shimmishim I look into the benchmark too but I wasn't able to find a newcastle... all I have seen is a 3000+ from newegg which doesn't say whether it's a newcastle... can you enlighten me on how to get one and oc it over 2.2 cuz all I have seen before is that the most an A64 can oc is up to .2 or .3 ghz more... I really wonder how you can oc a 2.0 chip to 2.6 by raising just the FSB... would it require alot of cooling and voltage then? Sorry I am still a newbie in OCing... Thanks for your help!

Maybe I should get the newcastle to save $100 then getting this 3400+ for $320!

You know what guys I found alot of Ebay aunction sells a new retail 3400+ around $350 so $320 is not that hot a deal!

Originally posted by: Shimmishim

Originally posted by: irenealan
I can get a deal on a New A64 3400+ Retail @ $320, should I get it or save $100 to get a 3000+ and OC it? Is it a good price for the 3400+? or should I wait for the 939 chipset?

Is there really much performance different between the 754 and 939? Also which motherboard would you guys recommend for moderate OC? A Shuttle AN50R or the Gigabyte GA-K8NPRO?

Very much thanks for your rapid response as I need to close the deal soon if I really need to get it thanks!

1. $320 for a 3400+ is a great price! I have a 3200+ which I paid $272 for and it's still about that price at newegg. However, I just purchased a 3000+ newcastle to see if it'll o/c any better. If you look at benchmarks, the extra 512k's of L2 cache don't help out in performance as much as I had originally thought. Looking at all the AT reviews on the newcastle and clawhammer, it just didn't impress me so I opted for a 3000+ instead and saved $60 bucks. I'm hoping to push this 3000+ to 2.7 ghz or higher.

2. The biggest change about the 939 chip besides the number of pins will be the availablility of dual channel boards. I'm not quite sure how soon the 939 is expected to come out but if you REALLY want to get an A64 system right now, then just do it!!! I highly recommend the Shuttle AN50R. It's a great overclocking board though it does lack in vcore and vdimm options (vcore up to 1.7 and vdimm up to 2.9 or 2.8). Also, A64 754 socket nforce3 250 will be released soon.

 

[stardust]

Originally posted by: myocardia
Okay, sorry, I forgot to specify. Dual-channel seems to make no difference at all in performance (for now, anyway). And the amount of level 2 cache makes <1% difference in all applications, except in video encoding. That's where the 1MB level 2 cache makes a pretty big difference.

Dual channel for the 939 A64 is for PCI-E compatibility. Since AGP is very limited in bandwidth, games run on dual channel show little improvement over single channel. I believe 4gb bandwidth of PCI-E will actually help contrast the 2.

 

[irenealan]

Thanks Myocardia, I thought you mean the Cache is less important than the dual channel and the DC is what helps in encoding! Thanks for clarification... so the DC is not that hot a thing! Why everyone keep mentioning the 939 when it has 50% less cache!! I keep thinking if I should wait but really there's no set date and I don't know how much longer I have to wait to get a 64bit system!!

Originally posted by: myocardia
Okay, sorry, I forgot to specify. Dual-channel seems to make no difference at all in performance (for now, anyway). And the amount of level 2 cache makes <1% difference in all applications, except in video encoding. That's where the 1MB level 2 cache makes a pretty big difference.

 

[irenealan]

oh I see so if I get it... how can I make sure it's not rebadged... is there anyway I can find in Bios or Software that the chip is really running 2.2 with 1m cache at stock? If now then I may return the chip!

Originally posted by: stardust

Originally posted by: irenealan
Thanks Myocardia but how can a 3400+ be a rebadged 3200+ since one operates at 2.2 and the other works at 2.0? Thanks for your help!

So based on what you are saying for a A64 chip, the Cache or dual channel won't matter much... but the clock speed is what matters most for performance?

Originally posted by: myocardia
Of course that's a good deal. Are you sure it isn't a rebadged 3200 though? If it isn't, pick one up for me too. The only bad thing about the socket 754, compared to the socket 939 is that the nForce 3-250 will only be for the socket 939 chips, so you don't get a locked pci & agp bus now. But getting a retail 3400 for $320 bucks pretty much negates that drawback, in my mind, since it doesn't really even need to be overclocked. Plus, it will overclock more for each mhz of raised fsb, because of the higher multiplier. That means that it's really the best socket 754 chip to buy, if you want to overclock (and have that much money!).

Based on AMD rumors, some new chips are going to be released as "handicapped" CPUs. 2.2ghz w/ 512kb Cache badged as 3200+. I haven't seen any of them yet. Think of those CPU's as the equivalent of radeon 9800SE models.

 

[stardust]

Originally posted by: irenealan
oh I see so if I get it... how can I make sure it's not rebadged... is there anyway I can find in Bios or Software that the chip is really running 2.2 with 1m cache at stock? If now then I may return the chip!

Originally posted by: stardust

Originally posted by: irenealan
Thanks Myocardia but how can a 3400+ be a rebadged 3200+ since one operates at 2.2 and the other works at 2.0? Thanks for your help!

So based on what you are saying for a A64 chip, the Cache or dual channel won't matter much... but the clock speed is what matters most for performance?

Originally posted by: myocardia
Of course that's a good deal. Are you sure it isn't a rebadged 3200 though? If it isn't, pick one up for me too. The only bad thing about the socket 754, compared to the socket 939 is that the nForce 3-250 will only be for the socket 939 chips, so you don't get a locked pci & agp bus now. But getting a retail 3400 for $320 bucks pretty much negates that drawback, in my mind, since it doesn't really even need to be overclocked. Plus, it will overclock more for each mhz of raised fsb, because of the higher multiplier. That means that it's really the best socket 754 chip to buy, if you want to overclock (and have that much money!).

Based on AMD rumors, some new chips are going to be released as "handicapped" CPUs. 2.2ghz w/ 512kb Cache badged as 3200+. I haven't seen any of them yet. Think of those CPU's as the equivalent of radeon 9800SE models.

I doubt you will have one of those unless you recieved ur CPU from a friend that works at AMD or a partner... I would go Here and verify spec ids.

 

[irenealan]

thanks for everyone's help... now I just wonder where I can get a newcastle 3000+... can someone give me a pointer? Thanks!

 

[MDE]

All of the A64 3000+ chips are Newcastles, the only difference is 512KB L2 on the Newcastles and 1MB on the Clawhammers.

 

[Shimmishim]

Originally posted by: MDE
All of the A64 3000+ chips are Newcastles, the only difference is 512KB L2 on the Newcastles and 1MB on the Clawhammers.

newegg is where i ordered mine from but yeah MDE is right

A64 3000+ = newcastle
A64 3200+ and 3400+ = clawhammer

 

[Shimmishim]

Originally posted by: irenealan
Yes Shimmishim I look into the benchmark too but I wasn't able to find a newcastle... all I have seen is a 3000+ from newegg which doesn't say whether it's a newcastle... can you enlighten me on how to get one and oc it over 2.2 cuz all I have seen before is that the most an A64 can oc is up to .2 or .3 ghz more... I really wonder how you can oc a 2.0 chip to 2.6 by raising just the FSB... would it require alot of cooling and voltage then? Sorry I am still a newbie in OCing... Thanks for your help!

Maybe I should get the newcastle to save $100 then getting this 3400+ for $320!

You know what guys I found alot of Ebay aunction sells a new retail 3400+ around $350 so $320 is not that hot a deal!

well you can use clockgen to change the mults. i changed the mult from 10x to 9x so i am running 9 x 289.

you can only go as high as your chip is at stock so if you get a 3000+ or a 3200+ the highest mult is 10x.

also... from what i've seen, lots of A64 3200+'s hit 2.4 even on stock cooling.... you may need to do a volt mod to your board (assuming you don't get high vcore options like the an50r).

 

[irenealan]

why would you like to change the multiplier to 9x when you can have it for 10x? then you don't have to raise the FSB so high! with 10x, you may reach 2.4 with 240FSB... too bad I got a pair of Corsair Value Select PC3200 512mb ram and I don't know how much FSB it can raise up to!

Also can someone tell me if I were to OC a chip from 200 to 220 FSB, that means I need to raise the memory FSB from 200 to 220 also right... then do I need to change the voltage or the steppings? My ram is currently doing 2.5,5,5,8! Thanks.

Originally posted by: Shimmishim

Originally posted by: irenealan
Yes Shimmishim I look into the benchmark too but I wasn't able to find a newcastle... all I have seen is a 3000+ from newegg which doesn't say whether it's a newcastle... can you enlighten me on how to get one and oc it over 2.2 cuz all I have seen before is that the most an A64 can oc is up to .2 or .3 ghz more... I really wonder how you can oc a 2.0 chip to 2.6 by raising just the FSB... would it require alot of cooling and voltage then? Sorry I am still a newbie in OCing... Thanks for your help!

Maybe I should get the newcastle to save $100 then getting this 3400+ for $320!

You know what guys I found alot of Ebay aunction sells a new retail 3400+ around $350 so $320 is not that hot a deal!

well you can use clockgen to change the mults. i changed the mult from 10x to 9x so i am running 9 x 289.

you can only go as high as your chip is at stock so if you get a 3000+ or a 3200+ the highest mult is 10x.

also... from what i've seen, lots of A64 3200+'s hit 2.4 even on stock cooling.... you may need to do a volt mod to your board (assuming you don't get high vcore options like the an50r).

 

[myocardia]

Irene, you can't overclock an A64 hardly at all with Value ram. It doesn't matter whether it's from Kingston or Corsair. And you aren't going to be able to overclock enough to notice any difference at all, if your Value ram is only running 2.5-5-5-8 at 200 fsb! Those are the worst timings I've ever heard of for PC3200!

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: stardust

Originally posted by: irenealan
Thanks Myocardia but how can a 3400+ be a rebadged 3200+ since one operates at 2.2 and the other works at 2.0? Thanks for your help!

So based on what you are saying for a A64 chip, the Cache or dual channel won't matter much... but the clock speed is what matters most for performance?

Originally posted by: myocardia
Of course that's a good deal. Are you sure it isn't a rebadged 3200 though? If it isn't, pick one up for me too. The only bad thing about the socket 754, compared to the socket 939 is that the nForce 3-250 will only be for the socket 939 chips, so you don't get a locked pci & agp bus now. But getting a retail 3400 for $320 bucks pretty much negates that drawback, in my mind, since it doesn't really even need to be overclocked. Plus, it will overclock more for each mhz of raised fsb, because of the higher multiplier. That means that it's really the best socket 754 chip to buy, if you want to overclock (and have that much money!).

Based on AMD rumors, some new chips are going to be released as "handicapped" CPUs. 2.2ghz w/ 512kB Cache badged as 3200+. I haven't seen any of them yet. Think of those CPU's as the equivalent of radeon 9800SE models.

Um...those are out there already, and are nothing like the 9800SE.
The 3000+ doesn't suck, nor the 2800+. From what we know now, it appears the current 1MB CPUs will be replaced with 512KB CPUs, but keeping the same model numbers, as the cache makes a big difference for workstation and server tests (heavy on memory), but not general use and gaming.

Added emphasis: I seriously doubt they'd release a A64 CPU with only 64KB L2, so I assume you meant B, not b.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: myocardia
Irene, you can't overclock an A64 hardly at all with Value ram. It doesn't matter whether it's from Kingston or Corsair. And you aren't going to be able to overclock enough to notice any difference at all, if your Value ram is only running 2.5-5-5-8 at 200 fsb! Those are the worst timings I've ever heard of for PC3200!

You've not seen some of the wonderful 4-8-8-8 stuff roaming the shelves?
2.5-5-5-8 isn't great, and you can get better unless you want super cheap (rebates), but I doubt you'd notice a difference w/o moving to at least 2-2-2-8.

 

[pelikan]

Originally posted by: irenealan
oh I see so if I get it... how can I make sure it's not rebadged... is there anyway I can find in Bios or Software that the chip is really running 2.2 with 1m cache at stock? If now then I may return the chip!

An A64 can't be rebadged as a faster version because there is no way to raise the multiplier.
Of course you can check to see what speed your cpu is running and how much cache it has.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: pelikan

Originally posted by: irenealan
oh I see so if I get it... how can I make sure it's not rebadged... is there anyway I can find in Bios or Software that the chip is really running 2.2 with 1m cache at stock? If now then I may return the chip!

An A64 can't be rebadged as a faster version because there is no way to raise the multiplier.
Of course you can check to see what speed your cpu is running and how much cache it has.

Good advice, CPU-Z will give you that info irene. Also, while as stated it's multiplier cannot be physically altered from it's factory state I have read of someone swapping IHS between a 3000+ and 3400+ then RMAing the 3000+ as the 3400+ isgusted; so if you can use CPU-z or WCPUID on it while it's running in a system before purchase that would be great.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I don't know what the deal is but it simply won't allow me to edit the above post, so DO NOT THINK THAT'S A BIG SMILE ABOUT SUCH A SCUMBAG practice, I mistakenly used a capital d in disgusted.

 

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by: stardust

Originally posted by: myocardia
Of course that's a good deal. Are you sure it isn't a rebadged 3200 though? If it isn't, pick one up for me too. The only bad thing about the socket 754, compared to the socket 939 is that the nForce 3-250 will only be for the socket 939 chips, so you don't get a locked pci & agp bus now. But getting a retail 3400 for $320 bucks pretty much negates that drawback, in my mind, since it doesn't really even need to be overclocked. Plus, it will overclock more for each mhz of raised fsb, because of the higher multiplier. That means that it's really the best socket 754 chip to buy, if you want to overclock (and have that much money!).

The nf3-250 should be available for socket754, read anandtech's review. The 939 addes dual channel memory, but looses half the cache.

The NForce 3 250 could be used in socket 754, socket 939 AND socket 940..... same as the K8T800, or the sis 755, or even the 1689..... Remember, the chipsets for the K8 are ONLY a peripherials and graphics controller with hypertransport capability..... that is the beauty of the on-die memory controller.


Alex