Ok I did a search on the forums I was fairly surprised to see this isn't being discussed and due to the huge amount of coverage this is getting in the UK I am curious to see how this is being reported over on the other side of the pond.
A-10 Cockpit Video
Link to the video feed from the cockpit of an A-10 mistakenly firing upon British forces thinking they are Enemy combatants.
For those not wanting to lookup the details of the incident themselves I'll give a brief summary.
2003 Lance Corporal of Horse Matty Hull and two Iraqi civilians die and four other soldiers seriously injured when their convoy is attacked by two US A-10 aircraft near Basra in southern Iraq. The incident occurred despite excellent visibility and the convoy displaying the correct panels identifying them as "friendlies"
*Taken from this article http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2007477,00.html*
Now most of the media attention is on three things here in the UK.
1) The fact that the inquest into the death of Matty Hull stated that no such video ever existed and this was backed up by the UK government who denied any such thing existed also. This has led people to ask why they would cover it up.
2) The fact that despite our *special relationship* with the US, there was a refusal to identify the pilots of have them co-operate in the inquest into the incident. This has led largely to arguments that the US has an unreasonable amount of impunity when it comes to accountability within its military operations; even when it comes to their closest supporters and allies.
3) This one in particular is the one that is really bugging me, most newspapers are screaming about the fact that this video clearly shows that it was the pilots that are at fault and they should be held accountable.
Seeing as I?m the one posting this thread I feel I should state my stance on the situation.
Initially when I heard about this incident a few years ago, I was pretty pissed off about it. It was described that the vehicles were clearly marked as friendlies; the A-10 had strafed the vehicles despite this and came back for a second pass to finish them off. I have friends in the army and there are quite a few incidences of friendly fire even from the first gulf war. I?d hoped that the tragic losses suffered in that first conflict *and many engagements prior to that even* would serve as reason enough to develop a sure fire way that this type of things doesn?t happen.
However upon seeing / hearing the actual video for myself, I have personally come to the conclusion that the Pilots were quite clearly told there were no friendly vehicles in the area. From what I know they had a limited amount of time to respond as the vehicles were heading towards a civilian population where they would become unable to be fired upon without risk of civilian casualties. And it is pretty clear from that video that they couldn?t tell what the vehicles were beyond what looked like *trucks* probably loaded with rockets. They sought confirmation on at least two occasions. To me the only area that annoyed me was the fact that the person relaying information to them did not appear to be doing a particularly good job of providing them that rather important piece of information.
Many people will point out that the A-10 itself wasn?t under any actual threat, however I feel that the proximity of the civilian population + the assurances that the vehicles weren?t friendly was enough of a reason for them to be unsure of their intentions.
The final thing that made my mind up on it is the instant remorse in these pilots voices as they realise what just happened. The timing of the transmission stating they are friendlies is fairly sickening. The remorse in their voices is deploy upsetting and to me shows that these guys are likely suffering enough as it is for what they?ve done.
This is getting a little lengthy so I?ll cut it short.
As someone who was not a supporter of the war *mainly for the way in which we were led into it, I would have supported going in after the first gulf war to remove Saddam however* + who is British and is incredibly saddened by the loss of Corporal Matty Hull, for the reasons given I would just like it made clear that for what it?s worth the pilots have my sympathies and I?m sorry for what they must be going through. Before you point out that it?s the guardian I linked you too? bear in mind that even the tabloids are just as full of angry rhetoric and outrage over this, the bulk of those belonging to Rupert Murdoch. I was shocked when I started seeing the tide of articles chastising these pilots; this is why I?m voicing my support to show that not everyone in this country feels that way. I?m also curious to see the response of people in the US from both sides of the political spectrum. Please try not to turn this into an Iraq war slagging match.
A-10 Cockpit Video
Link to the video feed from the cockpit of an A-10 mistakenly firing upon British forces thinking they are Enemy combatants.
For those not wanting to lookup the details of the incident themselves I'll give a brief summary.
2003 Lance Corporal of Horse Matty Hull and two Iraqi civilians die and four other soldiers seriously injured when their convoy is attacked by two US A-10 aircraft near Basra in southern Iraq. The incident occurred despite excellent visibility and the convoy displaying the correct panels identifying them as "friendlies"
*Taken from this article http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2007477,00.html*
Now most of the media attention is on three things here in the UK.
1) The fact that the inquest into the death of Matty Hull stated that no such video ever existed and this was backed up by the UK government who denied any such thing existed also. This has led people to ask why they would cover it up.
2) The fact that despite our *special relationship* with the US, there was a refusal to identify the pilots of have them co-operate in the inquest into the incident. This has led largely to arguments that the US has an unreasonable amount of impunity when it comes to accountability within its military operations; even when it comes to their closest supporters and allies.
3) This one in particular is the one that is really bugging me, most newspapers are screaming about the fact that this video clearly shows that it was the pilots that are at fault and they should be held accountable.
Seeing as I?m the one posting this thread I feel I should state my stance on the situation.
Initially when I heard about this incident a few years ago, I was pretty pissed off about it. It was described that the vehicles were clearly marked as friendlies; the A-10 had strafed the vehicles despite this and came back for a second pass to finish them off. I have friends in the army and there are quite a few incidences of friendly fire even from the first gulf war. I?d hoped that the tragic losses suffered in that first conflict *and many engagements prior to that even* would serve as reason enough to develop a sure fire way that this type of things doesn?t happen.
However upon seeing / hearing the actual video for myself, I have personally come to the conclusion that the Pilots were quite clearly told there were no friendly vehicles in the area. From what I know they had a limited amount of time to respond as the vehicles were heading towards a civilian population where they would become unable to be fired upon without risk of civilian casualties. And it is pretty clear from that video that they couldn?t tell what the vehicles were beyond what looked like *trucks* probably loaded with rockets. They sought confirmation on at least two occasions. To me the only area that annoyed me was the fact that the person relaying information to them did not appear to be doing a particularly good job of providing them that rather important piece of information.
Many people will point out that the A-10 itself wasn?t under any actual threat, however I feel that the proximity of the civilian population + the assurances that the vehicles weren?t friendly was enough of a reason for them to be unsure of their intentions.
The final thing that made my mind up on it is the instant remorse in these pilots voices as they realise what just happened. The timing of the transmission stating they are friendlies is fairly sickening. The remorse in their voices is deploy upsetting and to me shows that these guys are likely suffering enough as it is for what they?ve done.
This is getting a little lengthy so I?ll cut it short.
As someone who was not a supporter of the war *mainly for the way in which we were led into it, I would have supported going in after the first gulf war to remove Saddam however* + who is British and is incredibly saddened by the loss of Corporal Matty Hull, for the reasons given I would just like it made clear that for what it?s worth the pilots have my sympathies and I?m sorry for what they must be going through. Before you point out that it?s the guardian I linked you too? bear in mind that even the tabloids are just as full of angry rhetoric and outrage over this, the bulk of those belonging to Rupert Murdoch. I was shocked when I started seeing the tide of articles chastising these pilots; this is why I?m voicing my support to show that not everyone in this country feels that way. I?m also curious to see the response of people in the US from both sides of the political spectrum. Please try not to turn this into an Iraq war slagging match.
