A worrying trend ... Doctor's are going broke.

[RavenSEAL]

Stop working shitty jobs I guess? Maybe go back in time and be less of a fuck-up in middle/high/college?
Be Smarter?

I don't know what to tell you to make your shitty life better. Feel free to continue to take your misguided rage out on the internet and, of course, on your penis.
There are also a slew of antidepressants that may or may not help you. For men they are great for taking away that "crankiness" your wife and kids complain about.

Of course, that would require, you know... a prescription from... a ... Doctor.

I came to the US 6 years ago with my family and didn't know a drop of English. I graduated with a 5.0gpa, top 20% and 6 AP College credits. I believe if anyone is a fuck up, it's the 100 people in my class that didn't graduate. Sorry that my family and I barely live over the poverty line and I'm forced to work 2 jobs to help out and maintain myself.

 

[Doppel]

Not in my area. This Christmas season walking around in our mall I was surprised to see very few fat people, like almost none. I work at a high school, and out of 2000 kids we only have a handful that are fat. Even women in their 40's and 50's look good now, I remember growing up thinking older people were just fat by default. Now many of these older women look really hot lol.

When we spoke with our insurance agent this year he said it would be the first year that our rates would go down, because a lot of people live healthier lifestyles now. Gyms are always packed, lots of new gyms opening up, and I know very few people that still smoke...especially since it's $10/pack now and you are very limited to where you can smoke.

Your anecdotes surprise me, especially since they are not backed up by the greater statistical trends that show we are still getting fatter and most of us are looking at increased insurance premiums. A friend of mine is a contractor in NY state and pays his own family's insurance. Went up massively in the last year (he's young and family in good health, too).

 

[marincounty]

More than most? What does that even mean? More than most what? It's completely relative and quality of work, effort it took to get there, etc. should be taken into account. You can't simply say "more than most" and it be fine? I should hope that doctors make more than someone who doesn't spend their entire life before age ~30 training for a job that leaves them in debt, etc. etc. it's all been covered.

Plenty of people go through tough training and end up with crap. You sound angry, I'm glad you're not my doctor.

 

[TheVrolok]

Plenty of people go through tough training and end up with crap. You sound angry, I'm glad you're not my doctor.

I'm not angry at all. I was merely responding to your obvious angst. Please list me a few of the people who go through the equivalent of medical training and end up with crap. I feel fairly sorry for the PhD's in academia, a good deal of hard work and training (though not quite the same as MDs), but without the debt. Regardless, good research scientists are well underpaid in academia.

 

[Sonikku]

insurance companies are force feeding us information to live healthier, thus removing the demand for seeing doctors as often.

bastards.

 

[CottonRabbit]

Not really a surprise, malpractice insurance is through the roof since everyone is sue happy, and insurance companies are force feeding us information to live healthier, thus removing the demand for seeing doctors as often.

Yep, we sure are living healthier...

 

[SirStev0]

I came to the US 6 years ago with my family and didn't know a drop of English. I graduated with a 5.0gpa, top 20% and 6 AP College credits. I believe if anyone is a fuck up, it's the 100 people in my class that didn't graduate. Sorry that my family and I barely live over the poverty line and I'm forced to work 2 jobs to help out and maintain myself.

We could all tell our sad little stories of the poverty and despair and bullshit, and get into a pissing match about who is the sorry sap. Fact is I came from Bumblefuck and am finally on the cusp of actually making something of myself, yet constantly I hear about how my 9 years of education and my upcoming 5 years of slave labor do not qualify me to make more money than the average fuckface on the street.

Fact also is in spite of all that I am not bitter in the least I fucking love doing what I do and wouldn't change it no matter what I made. So I will put up with all the bullshit.

If I was in this for the power or the whores or the cash money, I would have become a scumbag lawyer or an investment banker (also scumbag). Amazing how even with all this occupy bullshit happening on Wallstreet, I still get the impression the Average Joe still resents Doctors much more then all those wall street jerkoffs who gambled away their savings and 401k's and the government assclowns who let it happens.

So hate on haters. In my opinion you can all go fuck yourself, that is of course until one day you need mine or another physicians help and we will be there to help. Maybe a little grumpy and worn down. But still there.

With all that said and the Internet tough guy shit aside, good luck. Hopefully your hard work will pay off and you'll be lucky enough that people won't one day resent the shit out of you for reaping a few small benefits once in a while.

 

[Slew Foot]

If I was in this for the power or the whores or the cash money, I would have become a scumbag lawyer or an investment banker (also scumbag). Amazing how even with all this occupy bullshit happening on Wallstreet, I still get the impression the Average Joe still resents Doctors much more then all those wall street jerkoffs who gambled away their savings and 401k's and the government assclowns who let it happens.

One of the surgeons at my hospital recently got an MBA. According to his professors, smart, altruistic people need an occupation like medicine that pays well and where their talents can serve society as a whole. Without that financial incentive, smart people go into law and finance and figure out ways to screw people out of money.

 

[Joepublic2]

Wait, Doctor's what are going broke? Their dogs?

edit: Yeah, the entire healthcare system in the US is inefficient as hell, so it is no surprise that everybody is getting burned by it.

 

[vi edit]

Medicine in the US is on a path toward huge industrial sized complexes where patients can get whatever they need in one spot and all physicians are employees of the hospital who punch a clock. Out of the 143 people in my med school class (2004), ZERO that I know of are in private solo practice. Everyone is either at Kaiser, a university, or part of a large group. What does this mean for old people living in bumblefuck? Better move.

Yep. If not a part of a giant "wal-med" building, at the very least they'll be owned by a healthcare network in the area. In my area(could be considered bumblefuck central IL), the major healthcare player owns practically all specialty practices...Cardiology, Neuro, pulmonary, gastro, ect. The only group they haven't bought out is the Radiology practice and that's because they are one of the largest private radiology entities in the nation and have the pull to say "f-off" to any buyout offers. On top of the specialty groups they also own a couple thousand physician offices, sell their own durable med products, do home infusion, and the whole range of home care services. It's a one stop shop with services spread out over 1/3 of the state.

And back on the topic of physician pay, I play basketball with a couple dozen of them of all ranges of specialty and practice. A lot of them are still residents, or recently out of residency so there's a bit an age distribution shifted to the youngest of docs (35 and younger) but out of 20 or 30 guys that I know, the only one that owns a remotely flashy car is the cardiac surgeon. His daily driver is a new Accord, but he does have a Porsche Carrera he's drove a few times. All the other guys have very modest, if not downright shitbox cars. There are a lot more $40,000 and $50,000 Tahoes and various other SUV's in the parking deck with the letters "RN" on them their plates there are in the physician parking deck.

 

[LurkerPrime]

And back on the topic of physician pay, I play basketball with a couple dozen of them of all ranges of specialty and practice. A lot of them are still residents, or recently out of residency so there's a bit an age distribution shifted to the youngest of docs (35 and younger) but out of 20 or 30 guys that I know, the only one that owns a remotely flashy car is the cardiac surgeon. His daily driver is a new Accord, but he does have a Porsche Carrera he's drove a few times. All the other guys have very modest, if not downright shitbox cars. There are a lot more $40,000 and $50,000 Tahoes and various other SUV's in the parking deck with the letters "RN" on them their plates there are in the physician parking deck.

Most of them at 35 and younger are still doing (or just finishing) thier residencies or interning for thier specialties. At that point they are making maybe 40-60k working 80+ hours a week (~$10-15/hour, slightly better than a walmart greater). Not to mention most have hefty loans they are paying back on. Its not until they are almost 40 and finished all thier school/residency/internships that they start making the rediculous money, and to be honest, at that point, they deserve it.

 

[rhino56]

My grandfather was a doctor for over 50 years, he started in 1925. he told me once when he put a guy down to do surgery he also fixed his ears as a surprise for him because his ears stuck out so much. The guy was very thankful for the bonus. You would never think of anything like that happening in todays world. Doctors are now told what they can and can't do, who they can treat and with what, we are close to living in communism. People with no medical training are deciding who gets what operation or treatment these days.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

My grandfather was a doctor for over 50 years, he started in 1925. he told me once when he put a guy down to do surgery he also fixed his ears as a surprise for him because his ears stuck out so much. The guy was very thankful for the bonus. You would never think of anything like that happening in todays world. Doctors are now told what they can and can't do, who they can treat and with what, we are close to living in communism. People with no medical training are deciding who gets what operation or treatment these days.

When I was a senior in high school in the late 80s, I spoke with my own doctor about his thoughts on medicine and what the prospects were if I decided to pursue an MD. He was not very optimistic and advised me that if I had other interests, I should pursue them. He spoke of the increasing control of insurers (and he thought one day, the government) would have over medical care and what treatments and tests could be administered, etc. After 23 years, it looks like his outlook was pretty accurate.

 

[vi edit]

Most of them at 35 and younger are still doing (or just finishing) thier residencies or interning for thier specialties. At that point they are making maybe 40-60k working 80+ hours a week (~$10-15/hour, slightly better than a walmart greater). Not to mention most have hefty loans they are paying back on. Its not until they are almost 40 and finished all thier school/residency/internships that they start making the rediculous money, and to be honest, at that point, they deserve it.

Yeh, that's why I qualified it. Several of the guys I play with are hospitalists that are probably not making much more than my wife is as a pharmacist and she was making bank 5-7 years earlier than them and doesn't have to cover a $30,000 insurance policy. My family practice friend is probably making less. The radiologists are just now finishing up residencies and looking into fellowships. Some of them have skipped the fellowship and went right to practice but they had to *REALLY* look for jobs and settle in some places they really didn't want to.

Other family practice docs I know live relatively modest lifestyles considering the alphabet soup following their name. Pediatricians are not exactly raking in the money.

The one guy that is the cardiac surgeon is probably making the most, but he works some insane hours, didn't start making major money until he was around 37 after fellowships and other specialties, and carries an insurance policy that is almost as much as a pediatrician makes a year.

Another guy I know that is a radiology resident is going on to specialize in Invasive Radiology and that's basically a license to print money. He'll make major money, but not till's he's almost 40.

 

[ichy]

I'm pretty sure it's interventional radiology, not invasive radiology. Invasive makes it sound like they shove things up your ass.

There's still SERIOUS money in medicine, but it requires going into areas like IR, opthamology, radiation oncology, etc, all of which are very tough to get into. Primary care docs can do much better if they work for boutique/concierge practices, but most PCPs obviously can't do that.

For PCPs who are willing to work as salaried employees it's not that bad. I'm going from memory here so I could be wrong, but at an urgent care facility like Patient First a family practice doctor gets something like $140k/yr while working 40 hours per week and can make more by picking up more shifts. That's nothing to sneeze at but when you look at med school debt & the time commitment it's not spectacular either. A GREAT gig if you can get it is to work as a medical officer at a government agency like CMS. The pay is not great but it's good, it's a 9-5 type job (or 9-6 if you want to take every other Friday off...) less stress than clinical medicine, no risk of getting sued, etc.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

My grandfather was a doctor for over 50 years, he started in 1925. he told me once when he put a guy down to do surgery he also fixed his ears as a surprise for him because his ears stuck out so much. The guy was very thankful for the bonus. You would never think of anything like that happening in todays world. Doctors are now told what they can and can't do, who they can treat and with what, we are close to living in communism. People with no medical training are deciding who gets what operation or treatment these days.

That's because some people aren't grateful when you do something they don't expect, even when it's free. It's just not worth doing it in case the person you do it to turns out to be one of those.

I'm pretty sure it's interventional radiology, not invasive radiology. Invasive makes it sound like they shove things up your ass.

There's still SERIOUS money in medicine, but it requires going into areas like IR, opthamology, radiation oncology, etc, all of which are very tough to get into. Primary care docs can do much better if they work for boutique/concierge practices, but most PCPs obviously can't do that.

For PCPs who are willing to work as salaried employees it's not that bad. I'm going from memory here so I could be wrong, but at an urgent care facility like Patient First a family practice doctor gets something like $140k/yr while working 40 hours per week and can make more by picking up more shifts. That's nothing to sneeze at but when you look at med school debt & the time commitment it's not spectacular either. A GREAT gig if you can get it is to work as a medical officer at a government agency like CMS. The pay is not great but it's good, it's a 9-5 type job (or 9-6 if you want to take every other Friday off...) less stress than clinical medicine, no risk of getting sued, etc.

Seriously, if you did Medicine for the money, you're really barking up the wrong tree. The money is a nice perk, and it is a nice return on spending 6 years in university plus another 5 or 6 in intern and residency training, but there are other things that make the job more worthwhile IMO.

 

[vi edit]

Yeah interventional. Sorry I've had a week of long nights with my son who was 6 weeks early and earned a stay in a NICU.

IR is getting big because the chance of stroking out on a table with them is a lot less than in the cath lab.