A worrying trend ... Doctor's are going broke.

[SirStev0]

vi_edit: I think that the little independent guys are an economic anachronism. It makes much more sense to have administrative overhead shared between a number of physicians.

This.

Just using EMR as an example. I worked with a doc who was shopping for an EMR system. He was one of the older guys that even though it was going to turn his entire practice upside down for about 4 months was going peacefully and was transitioning.
He was looking at some of the cheaper packages since he was one of those independent private practice guys. For those cheaper program packages which did NOT necessary included installation, security, infrastructure ect. he was looking at a 20,000 dollar investment.

And that is also not taking into account the transitional phase of implementing these systems. A lot of these guys have only an average amount of computer experience.
This is a guy who I was just getting to get the hang on text messaging.
He was about to have every thing he does changed and flipped upside down to eventually make it somewhat easier. And I know it would be at least 6 months of getting used to... and that whole time he would probably have to lighten his schedule to account for that learning curve.

I am actually a huge proponent of EMR but just looking at how upside down this guy was going to be for at least 6-8 months and how much of a huge investment it was going to be, I really felt bad for him.

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Doctors (in general) already make enough damn money. Drive around a staff parking lot in a hospital and tell me how many brand new BMWs/Mercedes-Benz/Porsche/Inifinties you don't see.

I work in healthcare, however not as a provider, I work IT. I can tell you that nearly every doc you see driving around in one of those deserves it. I dont know how many times I've been paged in for something or other and see them still working, sometimes doing 12-14 hours a day. and most of them aren't compensated that well. Unless you are in a specialty like oncology/radiology/OB you aren't raking in the cash. And even then all it takes is a single fuckup and you are pretty much done. Insurance rates for an OBGYN can be in excess of 100k a year for a doc that is experienced and has never had a case against him/her.

They make a good living, but they work hard at it also.

 

[IAteYourMother]

On loans: I haven't met a med student yet that didn't try to start living a doctor's lifestyle while still in school. "I need a quiet place I can study" translates to "I need to rent a house for three times what any other student would consider paying". The loans aren't simply a factor of tuition. They are a result of lifestyle decisions made by med students.

Here are tuitions/fees/insurance costs of medical schools. Note that this does not include everything else needed, including housing, food, transportation, luxuries.

Relevant numbers are on the very right.

Private Schools:
http://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/report.cfm?select_control=PRI&year_of_study=2012

Public Schools:
http://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/report.cfm?select_control=PUB&year_of_study=2012

Essentially, to have reasonable tuition, you need to get accepted to a public school AND be an in-state resident. And even then, tuition costs are typically around 30k/year. God forbid you attend a public school as an out of state resident, it's even more expensive than private schools.

Keep in mind that it's incredibly difficult to get into medical schools, so it's not like college where you'll almost always have the luxury of choosing between a cheaper and more expensive option.

 

[Pliablemoose]

RN for ~30 years now, physicians are pretty poor at managing their practices and money, most just don't think in a manner to maximize profit and minimize expenses, they're too busy. I know a ton of physicians that work into their 70's because they can't retire, they've spent all their $. Many of them have lost everything at one time or another, poor investments, poor life choices, etc...

When insurance companies pull in billions in profit and their CEO's make millions in bonuses, there's something inherently wrong with the system.

 

[CottonRabbit]

Good article for anyone considering medicine:

http://uncommonstudentmd.com/medsch...y-you-should-not-go-to-medical-school-a.html#

 

[RavenSEAL]

Fact is we are just better people than you and therefore not only deserve to drive expensive European luxury cars but also a huge salary on top of that. Because, you see, while you are at home jerking off to Battlefield 3 Montages, I am out playing god and saving lives.

There you go, now that I insulted you, you have an actual reason to dislike doctors instead the "they drive cars that are cool and I don't and my mom told me I was the smartestest boy alive so I should" mentality. I am sure that will help your rage boner later this evening.

I work 2 jobs, help maintain my home, go to college at the same time and can barely afford a fucking car. So if you wanna talk to me about busting your ass and making sacrifices, you're doing it wrong.

Also,

 

[TheVrolok]

I work 2 jobs, help maintain my home, go to college at the same time and can barely afford a fucking car. So if you wanna talk to me about busting your ass and making sacrifices, you're doing it wrong.

Also,

Oh, so you're sacrifices are far more difficult than his, therefore you desire to be rewarded more (or he less)?

 

[RavenSEAL]

Oh, so you're sacrifices are far more difficult than his, therefore you desire to be rewarded more (or he less)?

Did I say that anywhere?

Hint, the answer is no.

 

[TheVrolok]

Did I say that anywhere?

Hint, the answer is no.

Well, from the tone of your writing, and the condescension apparent in your last statement it surely seems like you believe yourself to be coming from a position better suited to complain than he. It seems like he was right on. It appears that you see doctors as having more than you, despite your sacrificing just as much if not more and you resent it, feeling that they do not deserve it.

 

[Slew Foot]

Medicine in the US is on a path toward huge industrial sized complexes where patients can get whatever they need in one spot and all physicians are employees of the hospital who punch a clock. Out of the 143 people in my med school class (2004), ZERO that I know of are in private solo practice. Everyone is either at Kaiser, a university, or part of a large group. What does this mean for old people living in bumblefuck? Better move.

 

[marincounty]

In this economy everyone's going broke. Doctor's here in Marin are complaining they can't afford a house here. Actually they can afford a house, just not the 10,000 sq ft mansion they were expecting. AFAIK malpractice awards for pain and suffering are (wrongly imho)capped at $250,000 in California.

Quit whining, you're a doctor and make more than almost everyone. Once you are an MD you can call yourself a psychiatrist or a plastic surgeon or a dermatologist-and effectively change careers.
Reminds me about Chief Justice John Roberts complaining about only making $200K+.
BTW my cousin is an MD, her husband doesn't work, and she just moved into her new mini-mansion.

 

[SZLiao214]

I see a few doctors at my sushi par semi regularly and every single one of them seems to have a wife who's job is to spend money. The wives seem to want to continually remodel random stuff around the house just to change things up.

One doctor is neurosurgeon pulling in about half a mil a year. He says he is working 6 days a week to keep up with his wife's spending habits.

 

[Slew Foot]

. Once you are an MD you can call yourself a psychiatrist or a plastic surgeon or a dermatologist

LOL @ idiot

 

[marincounty]

LOL @ idiot

Why am I an idiot? Was what I posted not true? Any MD can call himself a psychiatrist with no training ? No?

 

[SirStev0]

I see a few doctors at my sushi par semi regularly and every single one of them seems to have a wife who's job is to spend money. The wives seem to want to continually remodel random stuff around the house just to change things up.

One doctor is neurosurgeon pulling in about half a mil a year. He says he is working 6 days a week to keep up with his wife's spending habits.

Now, I might have to agree with this... to an extent.

I have seen quite a few "Doctor's Wives" over the last two years. (Doctor's Sig Others, I guess I should say. There was one brilliant guy who was married to the one doc and though he called himself a remodeler the only thing he was ever remodeling was his own basement with his wife's credit card.)

There was one Doc I was with where his wife was an incredibly successful lawyer (and smoking hot). He was an internist and come to think of it was probably one of the happiest docs I worked with...

 

[SirStev0]

Why am I an idiot? Was what I posted not true? Any MD can call himself a psychiatrist with no training ? No?

No. No they can't.
It is called Residency. Residency is your training.
To be a psych you have to do a psych residency.

Amazing that I have to explain that.

 

[TheVrolok]

Why am I an idiot? Was what I posted not true? Any MD can call himself a psychiatrist with no training ? No?

... lol.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

No. No they can't.
It is called Residency. Residency is your training.
To be a psych you have to do a psych residency.

Amazing that I have to explain that.

Well, I'm sure you could still call yourself a psychiatrist.

 

[SirStev0]

I work 2 jobs, help maintain my home, go to college at the same time and can barely afford a fucking car. So if you wanna talk to me about busting your ass and making sacrifices, you're doing it wrong.

Also,

Stop working shitty jobs I guess? Maybe go back in time and be less of a fuck-up in middle/high/college?
Be Smarter?

I don't know what to tell you to make your shitty life better. Feel free to continue to take your misguided rage out on the internet and, of course, on your penis.
There are also a slew of antidepressants that may or may not help you. For men they are great for taking away that "crankiness" your wife and kids complain about.

Of course, that would require, you know... a prescription from... a ... Doctor.

 

[marincounty]

... lol.

Sorry, I had no idea. I think it used to be that way.
Anyway, you make more than most, so suck it up. Reminds me of the nurses striking around here-they average over $100k annually.

 

[SirStev0]

Well, I'm sure you could still call yourself a psychiatrist.

The guy down the street from me calls himself a prophet of god; doesn't make it a fact...
Though that guy who calls himself a pharmacist actually does have some pretty good drugs.

 

[Anubis]

in 2012 we have things called computers that do these things. a lot of the doctors i know still use paper and do everything manually because they think every little expense is money out of their pockets

if you have ever used a medical billing program you would realize its actually easier to just do it by hand

also unless you work for a group installing a full EMR system and having all your records converted to EMR is like a 50K expense and thats not counting all the training and support for the new system


actually in NY its cheaper to not install EMR and pay the fine if you plan on retiring sometime in the next 10 years

 

[zanejohnson]

Stop working shitty jobs I guess? Maybe go back in time and be less of a fuck-up in middle/high/college?
Be Smarter?

I don't know what to tell you to make your shitty life better. Feel free to continue to take your misguided rage out on the internet and, of course, on your penis.
There are also a slew of antidepressants that may or may not help you. For men they are great for taking away that "crankiness" your wife and kids complain about.

Of course, that would require, you know... a prescription from... a ... Doctor.

Or he could travel to another country and get the same meds without a ...gasp...narcissistic doctor...

 

[TheVrolok]

Sorry, I had no idea. I think it used to be that way.
Anyway, you make more than most, so suck it up. Reminds me of the nurses striking around here-they average over $100k annually.

More than most? What does that even mean? More than most what? It's completely relative and quality of work, effort it took to get there, etc. should be taken into account. You can't simply say "more than most" and it be fine? I should hope that doctors make more than someone who doesn't spend their entire life before age ~30 training for a job that leaves them in debt, etc. etc. it's all been covered.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

What did they expect by charging such insane prices?

There is only so many rich that they can pillage.

Come on Rich Republican, start paying these guys double and triple.

You pathetic loser, you haven't the slightest clue what people go through (both in money and blood, sweat, and tears) to become a doctor. My cousin, who is 10 years older than me, did it and after I saw what she went through, I completely changed my mind and went into engineering instead. Sure, I might have made more as a doctor, but I couldn't handle the stress and wasn't dedicated enough to do something like residency.