A who done it, Hamas or Al-Quida.

[Lemon law]

AQ will be in a world of hurt if they become directly involved in attacking Israel. Israel does not pussy foot around. They have too much too lose.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Earth to cybrsage, Israel may not pussyfoot around nor does the USA, but that has not deterred Al-Quida in anyway.

We are damn near into year 10 of the GWB's war on international terrorism, and if anything we have more international terrorism now than when we started.

Or are you, cybrsage, the only one in the world who has failed to realize that reality?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Earth to cybrsage, Israel may not pussyfoot around nor does the USA, but that has not deterred Al-Quida in anyway.

We are damn near into year 10 of the GWB's war on international terrorism, and if anything we have more international terrorism now than when we started.

Or are you, cybrsage, the only one in the world who has failed to realize that reality?

International terrorism didn't suddenly begin on 9/11 or when GWB took office.

Besides that, being a top guy in AQ is virtually a guaranteed death sentence these days, or are you the only one in the world who has failed to recognize that reality?

 

[Lemon law]

International terrorism didn't suddenly begin on 9/11 or when GWB took office.

Besides that, being a top guy in AQ is virtually a guaranteed death sentence these days, or are you the only one in the world who has failed to recognize that reality?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you TLC may operate under the delusion that killing Ben Laden meant anything. Point granted Ossama Bin Laden was a charsamatic rich playboy type in love with with Cencil de Millle type theatrics, but Ossama bin Laden was at best a front man and not the brains of Al-Quida. Now that we In the USA finally got Bin Laden, Al-Quida continues on unabated as new and more competent leaders often replace those that the USA kill.

There may be a lesson there to learn, but I really wonder if TLC will have the brains to commecffttt the dots?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you TLC may operate under the delusion that killing Ben Laden meant anything. Point granted Ossama Bin Laden was a charsamatic rich playboy type in love with with Cencil de Millle type theatrics, but Ossama bin Laden was at best a front man and not the brains of Al-Quida. Now that we In the USA finally got Bin Laden, Al-Quida continues on unabated as new and more competent leaders often replace those that the USA kill.

There may be a lesson there to learn, but I really wonder if TLC will have the brains to commecffttt the dots?

For someone who claims to keep abreast of ME news you sure do come off as ignorant of the same. Do you realize how many of AQ's top membership have been permanently retired in the last 10 years? Or are you just turning a blind eye to the facts?

And AQ will likely always be around much like the Mafia, Bloods, Crips, Yakuza, and any other thugs. That doesn't mean they are what they used to be. AQ doesn't continue "unabated." We have cut off their nuts and they are a former shadow of themselves, so please stop trying to make the bogeyman appear larger than it really is. You aren't scaring anyone with that kind of bullshit.

And...brains? lol. Coming from you the irony of that statement is nearly overwhelming. Thanks for the chuckle. I doubt I'm the only one in this forum laughing at the irony either considering your track record of brainlessness in here.

 

[shira]

First to cybrsage, even if I accept your 276 figure for 2012, we are talking 1.6 missile attacks per day with most of them minor. But 30+ missiles in 2 days, yes I would call it a major uptick in the missile attacks. As many of the those 276 2012 attacks came not from Hamas, but in fact Stateless terrorists.

After that I think EK has the more thoughtful response, but the question now is, will the larger world permit Israel to lash out at all its neighbors for the work of mainly stateless terrorists. Maybe the USA will go the last mile for Israel, but even our allies in the EU are really questioning Israel's failure to stop its settling on land it does not own.

As 33 years of Israeli diplomacy is now an almost totally loss. As US foreign policy is unraveling in the entire mid-east region.

As my intent was more to report the news and not make predictions.

How many missile attacks per day against New York City would American citizens consider minor?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So - if it's AQ, then what?[/QUOTE}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As the Haybasusa question really boils down to "So - if it's AQ, then what"

As the only answer I can give you is Katie bar the door for all the good it will do anyone. Including Israel, the USA, or even the surrounding Arab nations. And lets add in State based terrorists like Hezbollah and Hamas, who may hate Israel but still are not interested in making their people the object of Israeli collective punishment.

Only the Stateless terrorists of Al-Quida profit from that tactic, and if Stateless terrorists can sneak in and borrow the lands of surrounding Arab States to launch attacks against Israel and even the US troops in the region, only Al-Quida profits when the USA and Israel strikes back in fruitless collective punishment. As surrounding Arab governments suddenly find themselves under attack, not for their own sins, but for the actions of Al-Quida.

As we may recall, Al-quida tried the same trick in Iraq, after Saddam fell, as Sunni Iraqis initially granted some welcome to Al-Quida. And became disenchanted with Al-Quida when they discovered all it bought the Sunnis was the wrath of the majority which fell on only the Sunnis. Exactly what Al-Quida wanted until the Sunnis wised up and told Al-Quida they would no longer help them. Now Al-Quda has found another base of operation, and once again wants to get every one in the mid-east at each others throats. Regardless if they want it or not.

AQ has been significantly damaged and has few friends. Lets hope that Palestinian or Egyptian elements aren't among them since at this point everyone knows they are toxic. Of it should be found that AQ has found friends that will not go well for them. If there's anything to be said for Obama it would be that he has given them no rest.

 

[Anarchist420]

AQ was not created by the CIA. That is the lie that refuses to die. Even AQ says they never even received any money from the CIA. If they did, they would proudly proclaim to have used the devil's money to fight the devil.

Perhaps AQ isn't real.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Perhaps AQ isn't real.

It's real and we didn't create it. If you want to know the truth, the CIA funded the Islamic mujahideen via Operation Cyclone between 1979-1989. Bin Laden came on the scene to fight the Soviets independently and funded AQ through his family fortune at the time US financing of other groups was coming to an end. The only thing is common was resistance to Soviet occupation. All this is easily found on the wonderful intarweb.

 

[cybrsage]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Earth to cybrsage, Israel may not pussyfoot around nor does the USA, but that has not deterred Al-Quida in anyway.

Aq has gone from controlling an entire nation to being a mere footnote. They are a shadow of their former selves.

Israel makes the US look weak when it comes to vengence for attacks. I point to the Munich massacre and the response of Israel to it.

The panel concluded that the most effective means to make a clear statement that Israel would not tolerate terrorist activity was to authorize the assassination of any Black September terrorists involved in the Munich incident. This directive included any individual identified as either directly or indirectly involved in the planning or the execution of the assault on the Israeli athletes in Munich.

Committee-X assigned the Mossad the task of implementing the panel's directive. The committee made it clear to the Mossad leadership that the objective was to kill the BSO members and create terror within the terrorists' organizations. It was not a mission devised to capture and/or prosecute suspects.

Avner's team had deployed almost two years earlier with a list of eleven PLO terrorists. Throughout this period his team succeeded in terminating eight of the original eleven and one replacement PLO leader outside the list. The collateral damage assessment included: one KGB officer, four PLO security men, one free lance assassin, and two team members.

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/calahan.htm

 

[Lemon law]

We can debate the end fate of Al-Quida until we are blue in the face, but today, 6/20/2012, another 30 rockets were fired at Israel from the Gaza area. Plus one team snuck from Egypt onto Israel and killed an Israeli construction worker.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...ts-missile-in-netivot-for-first-time-1.439928

And please don't blame me for the attacks or ask me to justify them for what amounts to reporting the news. Other than to say, without Israel stopping settlement construction and being a real peace partner in a Palestinian state, why should not we expect Palestinian terrorists to step up the pressure?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Other than to say, without Israel stopping settlement construction and being a real peace partner in a Palestinian state, why should not we expect Palestinian terrorists to step up the pressure?

It's a good thing there are so many eyes when the world craves taking one for another. Otherwise we'd all be blind.

 

[EagleKeeper]

We can debate the end fate of Al-Quida until we are blue in the face, but today, 6/20/2012, another 30 rockets were fired at Israel from the Gaza area. Plus one team snuck from Egypt onto Israel and killed an Israeli construction worker.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...ts-missile-in-netivot-for-first-time-1.439928

And please don't blame me for the attacks or ask me to justify them for what amounts to reporting the news. Other than to say, without Israel stopping settlement construction and being a real peace partner in a Palestinian state, why should not we expect Palestinian terrorists to step up the pressure?

Do not expect that Israel will continue to sit back and take this.

There will be strikes into Gaza as a result of Hamas tolerating/encouraging attacks. And Palestinian supporters will complain about over the board retaliation.

they will ignore all the attacks that Israel has endured and not responded to. That attitude they the supporters desire just makes the attackers bolder; thinking that they can get away with more. The stats show such.

Now that there is a new elected government in Egypt; Israel will be expecting Egypt to demonstrate a willingness to honor the treaties.

Gut feeling that a massive retaliation and/or slapdown will occur within next 3-4 months IF Hamas and Egypt do not reign in the trouble makers.

 

[Lemon law]

As the only relevant part of the latest EK post is, IMHO, "Gut feeling that a massive retaliation and/or slapdown will occur within next 3-4 months IF Hamas and Egypt do not reign in the trouble makers"

(1) Ek's gut feeling, INHO, is so biased its not funny. As his version seems to be Israel is as innocent as the new driven snow for depriving Palestinians of all human rights while stealing their land. Earth to EK, there are two sides to the issue, and truth be told neither side has not been guilty of stupidity and injustice. Given that fact, what do we now? Quite frankly EK, your gut is a damn poor predictor. You can bitch about my gut as a predictor too, but the same issue of Israeli land theft in 1948-51 has never gone away or will it ever.

(2) Now that the events of the Arab Spring has lost Israel any alliance with Egypt, because Mubarak is now toast, and in the process losing Israel 33 years of positive diplomacy, why do EK, busily pretend, that the loss of Egyptian is the sum total of all Israeli disasters in just the events of the Arab Spring and before???????????? As the entire mid-east is now A TINDER BOX, as none of it is good for Israel. Now as Turkey is openly hostile to Israel, and trying to reassert its diplomatic role in the mid-east, Assaud in Syria has a brutal track record in repressing his own people, Then there is the question of Iran, the two US failed Quamires in Iraq and Afghanistan, and even the question of how stable Saudi Arabia will continue to be. As we can also ask, if Egypt refuses to be the other half of the Israeli crippling embargo of the Gaza economy, why should that be an act of war on the part of Egypt?

As its been almost 50+ years now, since two most arguably dim bulb President in US history, LBJ and Nixon, somehow thought Israel would be an asset to US diplomacy in the mid-east.

Pardon me EK, only a fool, given the behavior of the Present Israeli govermment, would count on that always being true.

 

[cybrsage]

We can debate the end fate of Al-Quida until we are blue in the face, but today, 6/20/2012, another 30 rockets were fired at Israel from the Gaza area.

Only 30? Bah, that is just a relative lack of terrorists Rocket attacks from the Gaza, right?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

(2) Now that the events of the Arab Spring has lost Israel any alliance with Egypt, because Mubarak is now toast, and in the process losing Israel 33 years of positive diplomacy, why do EK, busily pretend, that the loss of Egyptian is the sum total of all Israeli disasters in just the events of the Arab Spring and before???????????? As the entire mid-east is now A TINDER BOX, as none of it is good for Israel. Now as Turkey is openly hostile to Israel, and trying to reassert its diplomatic role in the mid-east, Assaud in Syria has a brutal track record in repressing his own people, Then there is the question of Iran, the two US failed Quamires in Iraq and Afghanistan, and even the question of how stable Saudi Arabia will continue to be. As we can also ask, if Egypt refuses to be the other half of the Israeli crippling embargo of the Gaza economy, why should that be an act of war on the part of Egypt?

Egypt is too busy dealing with its elections. Syria is too busy dealing with its own internal problems. The issue with Turkey was a minor bump in the diplomatic road. Iraq is not a quagmire no matter how many times the usual idiots repeat that word.

Basically, all of those problems are internal problems that each of those countries must deal with on their own. It says far more about them than anything in relation to Israel. Israel will continue on despite your fervent desire to see them obliterated, LL. And you can protest that you have never said anything of the sort but your incessant idiocy in this forum regarding Israel speaks volumes, so don't bother protesting. You wouldn't be fooling anyone.

 

[EagleKeeper]

As the only relevant part of the latest EK post is, IMHO, "Gut feeling that a massive retaliation and/or slapdown will occur within next 3-4 months IF Hamas and Egypt do not reign in the trouble makers"

(1) Ek's gut feeling, INHO, is so biased its not funny. As his version seems to be Israel is as innocent as the new driven snow for depriving Palestinians of all human rights while stealing their land. Earth to EK, there are two sides to the issue, and truth be told neither side has not been guilty of stupidity and injustice. Given that fact, what do we now? Quite frankly EK, your gut is a damn poor predictor. You can bitch about my gut as a predictor too, but the same issue of Israeli land theft in 1948-51 has never gone away or will it ever.

(2) Now that the events of the Arab Spring has lost Israel any alliance with Egypt, because Mubarak is now toast, and in the process losing Israel 33 years of positive diplomacy, why do EK, busily pretend, that the loss of Egyptian is the sum total of all Israeli disasters in just the events of the Arab Spring and before???????????? As the entire mid-east is now A TINDER BOX, as none of it is good for Israel. Now as Turkey is openly hostile to Israel, and trying to reassert its diplomatic role in the mid-east, Assaud in Syria has a brutal track record in repressing his own people, Then there is the question of Iran, the two US failed Quamires in Iraq and Afghanistan, and even the question of how stable Saudi Arabia will continue to be. As we can also ask, if Egypt refuses to be the other half of the Israeli crippling embargo of the Gaza economy, why should that be an act of war on the part of Egypt?

As its been almost 50+ years now, since two most arguably dim bulb President in US history, LBJ and Nixon, somehow thought Israel would be an asset to US diplomacy in the mid-east.

Pardon me EK, only a fool, given the behavior of the Present Israeli govermment, would count on that always being true.

My gut predictor has been accurate well more than yours.

Find one of your predictions that actually has come to fruit.

Back to the original premise; does LL feel that Israel should sit back and continue taking the hits without responding. if Yes, why?

 

[Lemon law]

As Ek asks, " Find one of your predictions that actually has come to fruit." As this entire thread is one prediction that I made a number of years ago. That anti Israeli stateless terrorists would sneak into the territory of other mid-east nations, launch attacks from there without the knowledge of that country, and then really reap the bounty when Israel attacks their neighbor, not for their sins, but instead the sins of Stateless terrorists.



As Ekl asks a a rather weird question in, " Back to the original premise; does LL feel that Israel should sit back and continue taking the hits without responding. if Yes, why? "

As one reason EK is listed above you, if Stateless terrorists can sucker Israel into attacking its neighbors, what happens to Israeli deterrence? Maybe we can say, if the Jordain government does not attack Israel, Israel won't attack Jordan. But if a Stateless terrorist launches attacks on Israel from Jordan, and Jordan is suddenly under attack from Israel, what can the government of Jordan do? Because regardless if they are good or bad, they get attacked by Israel. So why not counter attack Israel might become the mantra of all Israel' neighbors---as they are damned if they do and damned if they don't if Stateless terrorists can pull it off.

And then EK pretends, Israel is all sweetness and light and innocent as the new driven snow. When the elephant in the room is the fact that Israel can never hope to make friends in the mid-east until the Palestinian State issue is solved.

 

[EagleKeeper]

You have terrorists coming into the Israel, attacking it. It makes no matter if they are state or stateless. they still are operating within a country with that countries knowledge/blessing.

Those terrorists are operating with support from the people that control that territory.

So you feel that Israel should take what ever is dished out to it and not defend herself.

 

[Lemon law]

You have terrorists coming into the Israel, attacking it. It makes no matter if they are state or stateless. they still are operating within a country with that countries knowledge/blessing.

Those terrorists are operating with support from the people that control that territory.

So you feel that Israel should take what ever is dished out to it and not defend herself.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Again a nonsense argument we already covered. Are you saying the the USA can't control or prevent Mexican drug cartel from freely operating in the USA because the American people in Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas conspire to help them? So why should various countries in the mid-east, including Israel, be any different? It just takes a few terrorists, even a 1/4 percent of the population is more than sufficient, to hide in plain sight, in populated areas, or in sparsely populated area. Meanwhile they look everyone else, 99.9% of the time they act like everyone else. As they await their time to strike. As they smuggle in rocket parts, on common pack mules, assemble them on site, then get the hell out of the area, as they launch the rocket by remote control.

The same is true in Pakistan as Pakistan has arrested more Al-Quida operatives than all other nations combined. But still, plenty of Al-Quida agents are hiding in plain sight in Pakistani cities.

 

[Lemon law]

It looks like a shaky cease fire has emerged today, at least between Israel and Hamas. As for what the article lists as other Palestinian terror groups, that may be another question.

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=274757

And in related Mid-East news, now that Egyptian elections are over, the question is will the Egyptian army return to civilian control or balk at relinquishing power.

 

[cybrsage]

The Egyptian army has always been a very professional one. I suspect they will slowly relinquish power as they transition power over properly.

As for a cease fire - to HAMAS that means "you cease firing and we will not, but if you shoot back we will claim you broke the cease fire".