A tale of two reviews

[qwertyaas]

I'm not really understanding why people are mentioning cell phone contract pricing.

If you get an iPod Touch, will you be dropping your cell phone plan?

Yes, an iPhone needs a cell phone contract. But so does any other phone... It's as if some people here believe an iPhone is the only cell with a monthly cost.

Regardless, about the iPod Touch. It is a nice device but a bit redundant if you are already carrying around a Smartphone. I prefer to have my smaller device for music (4G/5G Nano - not a fan of the new one).

 

[MrX8503]

It's because the cell phone plan pays for BOTH the service and part of the costs for the device.

I really don't understand why this is hard to grasp. When you pay $2k it's not for just the service.

 

[Tom]

I'm not really understanding why people are mentioning cell phone contract pricing.

If you get an iPod Touch, will you be dropping your cell phone plan?

Yes, an iPhone needs a cell phone contract. But so does any other phone... It's as if some people here believe an iPhone is the only cell with a monthly cost.

Regardless, about the iPod Touch. It is a nice device but a bit redundant if you are already carrying around a Smartphone. I prefer to have my smaller device for music (4G/5G Nano - not a fan of the new one).

umm, carrying around your smaller device is redundant too, so what's your point ?

cell phone contracts are not necessary to use an iPod Touch along with a prepaid cell phone.
an ATT cell phone contract is not needed to use an iPod Touch along with a Sprint contracted phone.
an ATT cell phone contract is not needed to use an iPod Touch along with a Tmobile contracted phone.
an ATT cell phone contract is not needed to use an iPod Touch along with a Verizon contracted phone.
A smartphone cell contract with any carrier isn't necessary to use an iPod Touch.
No cell phone at all is required to use an iPod Touch.

All cell phone contracts from all carriers are not the same price as the ATT cell phone contract that is required with an iphone.

The ONLY criticism that Anand has about the iPod Touch is that it isn't an iphone without a cell radio.

It's ludicrous to think Apple would want to sell an iphone, that sells for $600 with a cell radio, without a cell radio for $229. So criticizing them for doing so is equally ludicrous.

Using the $199 contract price of an iphone, as if that price has anything to do with the actual cost the consumer pays for it, is also ludicrous. And that price has absolutely nothing to do with the cost to make the iphone, the only thing it has to do with is MARKETING. Next week the iphone contract price might be $99 or $0, or $299..nione of which means anything about what it costs to make, or how much Apple is receiving for the phone. So starting from a premise that Apple sells the iphone for $199 so the Touch should have all the features, is just incorrect, the premise is just false.

It's possible to have a meaningful discussion/review that compares the Touch to an iphone, but not if one of the premises is just completely false, ie that an iphone costs $199.

 

[Narmer]

It's because the cell phone plan pays for BOTH the service and part of the costs for the device.

I really don't understand why this is hard to grasp. When you pay $2k it's not for just the service.

Actually it doesn't. The contract only says that you will get a discount off a phone if you stay with the carrier for a certain amount of time. It has nothing to do with specific plans. Also, can switch phones if you like so long as you stay with them. The fact a contract works the same for all phones takes the phone out of the equation.

 

[zerocool84]

We're still going on about this? I thought this thread died last week.

 

[Narmer]

umm, carrying around your smaller device is redundant too, so what's your point ?

cell phone contracts are not necessary to use an iPod Touch along with a prepaid cell phone.
an ATT cell phone contract is not needed to use an iPod Touch along with a Sprint contracted phone.
an ATT cell phone contract is not needed to use an iPod Touch along with a Tmobile contracted phone.
an ATT cell phone contract is not needed to use an iPod Touch along with a Verizon contracted phone.
A smartphone cell contract with any carrier isn't necessary to use an iPod Touch.
No cell phone at all is required to use an iPod Touch.

All cell phone contracts from all carriers are not the same price as the ATT cell phone contract that is required with an iphone.

The ONLY criticism that Anand has about the iPod Touch is that it isn't an iphone without a cell radio.

It's ludicrous to think Apple would want to sell an iphone, that sells for $600 with a cell radio, without a cell radio for $229. So criticizing them for doing so is equally ludicrous.

Using the $199 contract price of an iphone, as if that price has anything to do with the actual cost the consumer pays for it, is also ludicrous. And that price has absolutely nothing to do with the cost to make the iphone, the only thing it has to do with is MARKETING. Next week the iphone contract price might be $99 or $0, or $299..nione of which means anything about what it costs to make, or how much Apple is receiving for the phone. So starting from a premise that Apple sells the iphone for $199 so the Touch should have all the features, is just incorrect, the premise is just false.

It's possible to have a meaningful discussion/review that compares the Touch to an iphone, but not if one of the premises is just completely false, ie that an iphone costs $199.

I think you need to re-read the review. His only criticism wasn't the fact that it wasn't an iPhone. That's how the review was titled because if the Touch was only missing a cell chip, then it would be considered a poor man's iPhone. However, since it was cheapened in so many ways, it was worse than a poor man's iphone. That, I believe, is why he said it's not a poor man's iPhone. Could Anand invite himself into the thread to clear this part up?

 

[MrX8503]

Actually it doesn't. The contract only says that you will get a discount off a phone if you stay with the carrier for a certain amount of time. It has nothing to do with specific plans. Also, can switch phones if you like so long as you stay with them. The fact a contract works the same for all phones takes the phone out of the equation.

You clearly don't know what subsidizing a phone means or what it means to be on contract. Rather than re explaining it and wasting my time I'll just say this. You're wrong, a contract goes towards the cost of a new phone. That's why they call it subsidizing.

 

[Pliablemoose]

We're still going on about this? I thought this thread died last week.

Yeah, you know, typical thread about how miserable Apple products are.

1.) Apple introduces a segment leading device
2.) People get their panties in a wad
3.) Apple sells as many of the new device as they can make
4.) Repeat

I use a 3G iPhone as an iPod, maybe Narmer can just buy an iPhone 4 and do the same. Problem solved.

 

[Tom]

I think you need to re-read the review. His only criticism wasn't the fact that it wasn't an iPhone. That's how the review was titled because if the Touch was only missing a cell chip, then it would be considered a poor man's iPhone. However, since it was cheapened in so many ways, it was worse than a poor man's iphone. That, I believe, is why he said it's not a poor man's iPhone. Could Anand invite himself into the thread to clear this part up?

You just restated in a different way what I said. He criticizes the screen..because it isn't as good as an iphone. He criticizes it for not having a gps, because the iphone has a gps. He criticizes it for not having the same camera as an iphone. he criticizes it for not having as much memory as an iphone.

But, it isn't an iphone. It costs much less than an iphone. It isn't designed to compete with the iphone.

It should be evaluated for what it is, and how it compares to similar products. Similar in function, and PRICE.

Comparing it to the iphone even would be ok, as long as it's very clear that there's a huge difference in price. Instead there's a big mischaracterization of the cost of an iphone.

 

[Narmer]

You clearly don't know what subsidizing a phone means or what it means to be on contract. Rather than re explaining it and wasting my time I'll just say this. You're wrong, a contract goes towards the cost of a new phone. That's why they call it subsidizing.

You said the cellphone plan subsidizes the phone. I said the contract subsidizes the phone. Learn to read.

 

[Narmer]

Yeah, you know, typical thread about how miserable Apple products are.

1.) Apple introduces a segment leading device
2.) People get their panties in a wad
3.) Apple sells as many of the new device as they can make
4.) Repeat

I use a 3G iPhone as an iPod, maybe Narmer can just buy an iPhone 4 and do the same. Problem solved.

This thread is not anti-Apple. (I give away Apple products for Christmas and birthdays but I would never buy one for myself because of iTunes.) This thread is about two reviews and how one glosses over the Touch's shortcomings.

 

[Narmer]

You just restated in a different way what I said. He criticizes the screen..because it isn't as good as an iphone. He criticizes it for not having a gps, because the iphone has a gps. He criticizes it for not having the same camera as an iphone. he criticizes it for not having as much memory as an iphone.

But, it isn't an iphone. It costs much less than an iphone. It isn't designed to compete with the iphone.

It should be evaluated for what it is, and how it compares to similar products. Similar in function, and PRICE.

Comparing it to the iphone even would be ok, as long as it's very clear that there's a huge difference in price. Instead there's a big mischaracterization of the cost of an iphone.

I think you miss the point I was trying to make. People compare it to the iPhone because it's a derivative of the iPhone. Hence, they compare the specs. WHen it comes down to it, the gap (in terms of features and quality) between the specs between this year's iPhone and Touch are vastly more pronounced compared to the last two years.

 

[Tom]

I think you miss the point I was trying to make. People compare it to the iPhone because it's a derivative of the iPhone. Hence, they compare the specs. WHen it comes down to it, the gap (in terms of features and quality) between the specs between this year's iPhone and Touch are vastly more pronounced compared to the last two years.

The new Touch has a camera that can record HD video. That's a major upgrade that makes it closer to an iphone. The last Touch didn't have a camera at all, did it ?

The new Touch has a mic and can do wifi based video chat. Again, that makes it more like the latest iphone, not less like it.

Neither the old or new Touch had gps, so that didn't change.

So the Touch is more like an iphone in some major ways, and less like an iphone in some cosmetic ways. The screen and memory differences are just cosmetic, they don't reduce functionality much, I guess you can't run some demo which Anand wanted to run, I guess that's tragic.

 

[qwertyaas]

umm, carrying around your smaller device is redundant too, so what's your point ?

cell phone contracts are not necessary to use an iPod Touch along with a prepaid cell phone.
an ATT cell phone contract is not needed to use an iPod Touch along with a Sprint contracted phone.
an ATT cell phone contract is not needed to use an iPod Touch along with a Tmobile contracted phone.
an ATT cell phone contract is not needed to use an iPod Touch along with a Verizon contracted phone.
A smartphone cell contract with any carrier isn't necessary to use an iPod Touch.
No cell phone at all is required to use an iPod Touch.

All cell phone contracts from all carriers are not the same price as the ATT cell phone contract that is required with an iphone.

The ONLY criticism that Anand has about the iPod Touch is that it isn't an iphone without a cell radio.

It's ludicrous to think Apple would want to sell an iphone, that sells for $600 with a cell radio, without a cell radio for $229. So criticizing them for doing so is equally ludicrous.

Using the $199 contract price of an iphone, as if that price has anything to do with the actual cost the consumer pays for it, is also ludicrous. And that price has absolutely nothing to do with the cost to make the iphone, the only thing it has to do with is MARKETING. Next week the iphone contract price might be $99 or $0, or $299..nione of which means anything about what it costs to make, or how much Apple is receiving for the phone. So starting from a premise that Apple sells the iphone for $199 so the Touch should have all the features, is just incorrect, the premise is just false.

It's possible to have a meaningful discussion/review that compares the Touch to an iphone, but not if one of the premises is just completely false, ie that an iphone costs $199.

Fair enough - I was talking regarding my perspective. And with regard to my perspective, stating the iPhone 4 costs $199 + $1,880 in contract fees doesn't really make sense.

That cost will be there regardless. I am on AT&T but opted for a Captivate. I paid $199 + tax for my phone. That is all - not ~$2,000. My AT&T bill has been the same before and after I got my Captivate. And it would be the same if I got an iPhone instead.

But as to why it isn't an iPhone 4, I agree with you. Because if you buy an un-subsidized iPhone, the device is actually $600 - 700. Not $200 - 300 as the iPod is.

 

[Narmer]

The new Touch has a camera that can record HD video. That's a major upgrade that makes it closer to an iphone. The last Touch didn't have a camera at all, did it ?

The new Touch has a mic and can do wifi based video chat. Again, that makes it more like the latest iphone, not less like it.

Neither the old or new Touch had gps, so that didn't change.

So the Touch is more like an iphone in some major ways, and less like an iphone in some cosmetic ways. The screen and memory differences are just cosmetic, they don't reduce functionality much, I guess you can't run some demo which Anand wanted to run, I guess that's tragic.

 

[MrX8503]

You said the cellphone plan subsidizes the phone. I said the contract subsidizes the phone. Learn to read.

I'm referring to the cellphoneplan/contract as a whole, the entire package. Regardless, you don't understand how it works.

 

[cronos]

I just got back from actually holding the new Touch in my hands and tested some things. Here's what I found so surprising:

When Anand said the new Touch is 'ridiculously thin', he is exaggerating more than just quite a bit.

I looked it up and it's 0.31 inch vs. 0.28 inch. This thing just barely feels different in my hands than my 2nd generation Touch that I brought along. I'm pretty sure most people who kept repeating how outrageously thin the new Touch is never owned an iPod Touch before in their life. And by 'own' I mean actually *own* and use it daily for more than a week.


Added: Oh and btw the HD video camera is as great as the reviews have been saying while the still camera is really not bad at all, at least not as bad as I thought.

 

[MrX8503]

I just got back from actually holding the new Touch in my hands and tested some things. Here's what I found so surprising:

When Anand said the new Touch is 'ridiculously thin', he is exaggerating more than just quite a bit.

I looked it up and it's 0.31 inch vs. 0.28 inch. This thing just barely feels different in my hands than my 2nd generation Touch that I brought along. I'm pretty sure most people who kept repeating how outrageously thin the new Touch is never owned an iPod Touch before in their life. And by 'own' I mean actually *own* and use it daily for more than a week.


Added: Oh and btw the HD video camera is as great as the reviews have been saying while the still camera is really not bad at all, at least not as bad as I thought.

I was questioning how thin it really felt. The 3rd gen had more of a tapered edge, so it probably gives you a thinner feel.

I hate it when reviewers say "its thin" and shows pictures of the device. I want pictures of the device laying face flat down on the screen next to a similar device to get a better idea. But not a lot of reviewers does this.

 

[Narmer]

I'm referring to the cellphoneplan/contract as a whole, the entire package. Regardless, you don't understand how it works.

Sure I don't