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A suggestion for this country going forward related to China and viruses

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
21,945
6,552
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Point blank, everyone traveling from China should get their temperature taken before entering customs. If you have a fever a mandatory quarantine would be required. An infrared forehead scanner can be used for speed.

Once quarantined person has a choice of a physical to determine cause of fever. If person doesn't have a virus they would be allowed in. If a person is suspected of a virus or they refuse an exam they could either be quarantined or return to China.

I been thinking about this and checked a few sources concerning viruses emanating from China.
The Asian Flu in 1956 killed between one and four million people worldwide. SARS in 2002 infected 8,098 and killed 774 in seventeen counties. H7N9 emerged ten years later to strike at least 1,223 people and kill four out of every ten of them. Now, the milder, yet more infectious COVID-19 has sickened more than 70,000 across the globe, resulting in 1,771 deaths.

All of these outbreaks originated in China, but why? Why is China such a hotspot for novel diseases?
This article was written early in the spread of COVID-19 but answers some of those questions.

Not trying to single out the Chinese people. This would apply to anyone traveling from China or has been there in the last 30 days based on passport. Medical experts can determine how high a fever qualifies for further examination.
 
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eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
4,488
34
91
Yes the initial wave was from China. But current WHO numbers, 85% are coming from Europe and US. If these vacationers actually took this travel warning seriously, it wouldn’t have gotten this out of control.
 
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Atari2600

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2016
1,105
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Point blank, everyone traveling from China should get their temperature taken before entering customs. If you have a fever a mandatory quarantine would be required. An infrared forehead scanner can be used for speed.
What about the "Spanish" flu of 1918?

That supposedly originated in the US.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
21,945
6,552
136
What about the "Spanish" flu of 1918?

That supposedly originated in the US.
One in 1918. The last 4-5 from China since 1955. I go where the trouble is. China has not to date seem interested in changing their exotic animal habits so be it.
 

abj13

Senior member
Jan 27, 2005
759
291
136
1) Fever is a poor screening option for "sick" patients. It is well known in influenza that patients are infectious and can spread it to others PRIOR to the onset of symptoms

2) China is not the sole source of potential pandemic infections. See MERS, Ebola, or Zika

3) We are far better served having a pandemic response team and getting the CDC/researchers at the frontlines across the world. We should not be disbanding key roles in the administration for recognizing infections. We should not be disbanding teams try to identify new infectious agents BEFORE they become problematic. We should not ignore testing options like the WHO could have supplied for SARS-CoV-2. We had invested billions into pandemic preparation services across the world, and the current administration decided it wasn't a priority.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
21,445
3,234
126
How about we push for a worldwide moratorium on the handling and marketing of live or dead bats, and ensure rural markets are away from bat nesting sites? Sorry China, but no more bat soup for you unless you’re willing to catch and clean and cook them yourself.

Of course, a worldwide ban on wet markets with live exotic/wild animals packed in unnaturally close quarters would be even better. Make it a condition for any and all international trade.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
21,945
6,552
136
1) Fever is a poor screening option for "sick" patients. It is well known in influenza that patients are infectious and can spread it to others PRIOR to the onset of symptoms

2) China is not the sole source of potential pandemic infections. See MERS, Ebola, or Zika

3) We are far better served having a pandemic response team and getting the CDC/researchers at the frontlines across the world. We should not be disbanding key roles in the administration for recognizing infections. We should not be disbanding teams try to identify new infectious agents BEFORE they become problematic. We should not ignore testing options like the WHO could have supplied for SARS-CoV-2. We had invested billions into pandemic preparation services across the world, and the current administration decided it wasn't a priority.
Hmm. As usual Trump had an answer to that.

I had this an an non-invasive method of testing. Maybe everyone entering the country should have a temp check.
 

ShookKnight

Senior member
Dec 12, 2019
531
456
96
If we don't "deal" with China, how are US businesses going to make 80 to 90% profits on goods?
 

Atari2600

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2016
1,105
1,139
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Good point but at least it was our problem.
Your problem?

Your own CDC estimated it killed over a quarter of a million people across the world...

 
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pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
5,738
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Far too late for that.

I was moaning at least a month ago that we were letting people go to and from northern Italy without being tested even in a cursory way, yet alone quarantined. People were just arriving by the planeload and getting on public transport and disappearing. China wasn't the source for most of Europe, it was Italy, and (for the middle-east) Iran. But its far too late to do anything about that now.

We could start stigmatising people who go on ski-ing holidays though. The virus appears to have a correlation with ski-ing (Switzerland was also a hot-spot of people getting infected). And I feel there's a need for a new out-group.

I also have a theory about noodles and pasta. The spread of the virus clearly correlates with countries that consume a lot of those things (who knew that Iran eats a lot of noodles? Apparently it's in the top 10!).

So, everyone who eats pasta or goes ski-ing should be viewed with suspicion.
 
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chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,567
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Far too late for that.

I was moaning at least a month ago that we were letting people go to and from northern Italy without being tested even in a cursory way, yet alone quarantined. People were just arriving by the planeload and getting on public transport and disappearing. China wasn't the source for most of Europe, it was Italy, and (for the middle-east) Iran. But its far too late to do anything about that now.

We could start stigmatising people who go on ski-ing holidays though. The virus appears to have a correlation with ski-ing (Switzerland was also a hot-spot of people getting infected). And I feel there's a need for a new out-group.

I also have a theory about noodles and pasta. The spread of the virus clearly correlates with countries that consume a lot of those things (who knew that Iran eats a lot of noodles? Apparently it's in the top 10!).

So, everyone who eats pasta or goes ski-ing should be viewed with suspicion.
I am sure there will be studies on this but there are lots of Chinese workers in Italy especially in the Milan area working in the textile industry so they can get the Made in Italy tags for clothing. This was around the Chinese New Year period so lots of travel to and from China around that time. China and Iran have a big trading relationship so that is why you saw all the Iranian leaders getting sick.
It started in China and moved to these other hot spots e.g. Silicon Valley, Seattle Washington in the West and NYC in the East. Milan Fashion week was late February so all those people going back and forth is a likely vector.

Honestly, they need CCTV that reads temperatures of everyone coming off of a plane. Taiwan does that. People with fevers are tested and tracked and quarantined. Those that they have come in contact with are also tested and potentially quarantined. They also have traveler data fed into their CDC to track where people have gone.
I can see in future lots more intrusive surveillance and monitoring. China does it the most and even then it took them a long time to manage the situation.
 
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pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
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you can still be a carrier and not exhibit any outwardly signs (like a fever)
True, though I would have thought that even crude methods that would pick up a share of infectees, would help slow the spread of such things. Mainly I see international air travel as by no means an everyday thing, so I'd be fine with a bit of extra inconvenience if it helped reduce such outbreaks. But I don't think it should be directed at particular countries, except when there's a known large outbreak in that country that hasn't yet spread.

I don't see that, where we are now, escalating nationalist sentiments with regard to China is going to help. They'll just respond by pushing even nuttier conspiracy theories blaming the US.

While it is fair to say the Chinese cultural trope that seems to value consumption of exotic animals is one contributor to this problem, maybe every culture has it's own style of creating such problems. I think only Western profit-and-costs obsessed industrial agriculture would have thought it a good idea to feed ground-up diseased sheep to cattle, for example. In any case surely its better to try and find a co-operative solution and persaude everyone to do the right things, than to raise nationalist tensions by being quick to throw blame around?
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
14,287
843
126
Apparently, or one would think -- this may reflect a shortcoming in Chinese government oversight. It's a paradox that the Chinese government allows these so-called traditional "wet markets" with exotic live animals -- a tip of the hat to "freedom" and Chinese popular tradition, when it is otherwise considered to be authoritarian. Would it be that their equivalents to the USDA and the FDA are insufficient?

On this side of the Pacific, Trump is attempting as much as possible to destroy institutions such as the USDA.

On a lighter note, why doesn't the P.F. Chang outfit offer a tasty bat dish alongside their Mandarin Orange Chicken and Mongolian Beef?

Like Hannibal Lecter (Anthony Hopkins) says to the young Chinese boy on the airplane at end of "Hannibal", preparing to offer the unsuspecting lad some sautéed FBI brains, "My mother always told me to try new things . . . ."
 
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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
16,130
1,341
126
Far too late for that.

I was moaning at least a month ago that we were letting people go to and from northern Italy without being tested even in a cursory way, yet alone quarantined. People were just arriving by the planeload and getting on public transport and disappearing. China wasn't the source for most of Europe, it was Italy, and (for the middle-east) Iran. But its far too late to do anything about that now.

We could start stigmatising people who go on ski-ing holidays though. The virus appears to have a correlation with ski-ing (Switzerland was also a hot-spot of people getting infected). And I feel there's a need for a new out-group.

I also have a theory about noodles and pasta. The spread of the virus clearly correlates with countries that consume a lot of those things (who knew that Iran eats a lot of noodles? Apparently it's in the top 10!).

So, everyone who eats pasta or goes ski-ing should be viewed with suspicion.
A better solution is to means test Presidential candidates so we dont end up with moronic dotards managing a crisis.

It's all Trumps fault. All of it in every country.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
18,803
673
126
How about we push for a worldwide moratorium on the handling and marketing of live or dead bats, and ensure rural markets are away from bat nesting sites? Sorry China, but no more bat soup for you unless you’re willing to catch and clean and cook them yourself.

Of course, a worldwide ban on wet markets with live exotic/wild animals packed in unnaturally close quarters would be even better. Make it a condition for any and all international trade.
It's not just China and it's not just bats, pretty good short 60 minutes Australia documentary here,
 

Newbian

Lifer
Aug 24, 2008
24,568
548
126
What about the "Spanish" flu of 1918?

That supposedly originated in the US.
If you read up on it some experts believe it started in China actually however no one is 100% sure about this one as it's been suggested for multiple areas in the world also such as France and Britain
 
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