A soln to CA budget crisis: charge for public school (k-12)

[woolfe9999]

How about we charge for police, fire protection, roads, etc... oh wait we already do. Its called taxs.

I think this is unfairly dismissive of the OP's idea. The notion here is that those with children in school take on some extra burden to support the schools. Taxes apportion it to everyone, including those without children in school. Everyone needs roads, police and fire protection in place so the analogy isn't great. This is hardly a novel idea since we already pay tuition for public colleges and universities.

 

[Infohawk]

I think this is unfairly dismissive of the OP's idea. The notion here is that those with children in school take on some extra burden to support the schools. Taxes apportion it to everyone, including those without children in school. Everyone needs roads, police and fire protection in place so the analogy isn't great. This is hardly a novel idea since we already pay tuition for public colleges and universities.

And what if people don't/can't pay? Do you really think any states are going to disallow the kid from going to school because of poverty? No, they will give a waiver to those kids and then it will just be another tax on the parents of kids who can afford it. In other words, more distribution of wealth from the middle class (primarily since rich people tend to go private) to the poor.

And higher education is different because not everyone is forced to participate. (Although sadly you see the same distribution of wealth from the middle-class at public schools.)

 

[First]

Maybe we should just get smarter with our spending. You know, like not building $150 million highschools and not giving free college educations to every crotchdropping that can get a 400 on the SAT.

California's stupid ass spending is what got us here. We have enough in tax revenue that we should be able to pay for our schools. Hell, there are schools in central California where the primary spoken language is fucking Mexican, and they're that way BY FUCKING DESIGN, not by necessity.

Teachers are paid too much, there are too many administrators, the administrators are paid too much, and the facilities are overbuilt and overbudget. Fix that shit and the rest won't be a problem.

This is a terrible post. Mexican? lol. Fucking tard.

 

[First]

Mexican's its own dialect of Spanish, and it's different enough that it can be called something else, imo.

But, I addressed that administration problem...the highschool I went to had 3 full time people working in the attendance office processing tardy school kids...there were maybe 50 tardies a day in our 2500 kid school. They were probably making $18/hr 10 years ago with benefits. They needed ONE person in there from 8am to 10am, when most of the delinquents came late, and then the rest could have been done by the secretary in the main office.

There were almost more office staff at the school than there were actual teachers. And I KNOW they were all paid way too much.

Mexican isn't a dialect, kiddo, lol.

For the amount of hours they work they're underpaid. You're clueless if you think they're overpaid considering the amount of grading and after-school work they have to do. Some districts have to deal with horrid circumstances where parents are totally clueless with nothing they can do about it other than report it to administrators.

 

[davmat787]

Why is more money always the solution in some peoples opinion? When does a supposed lack of funds stop being the excuse? This mentality just reeks of a cop out to the base problem.

 

[Jaskalas]

Thread fail.

I've a solution, spend less.

 

[woolfe9999]

And what if people don't/can't pay? Do you really think any states are going to disallow the kid from going to school because of poverty? No, they will give a waiver to those kids and then it will just be another tax on the parents of kids who can afford it. In other words, more distribution of wealth from the middle class (primarily since rich people tend to go private) to the poor.

And higher education is different because not everyone is forced to participate. (Although sadly you see the same distribution of wealth from the middle-class at public schools.)

All valid points. I was merely pointing out that Marin's response to the OP was overly dismissive of the issue he raises. Charging a fee per student is *not* the same thing as just using tax revenues. It has different implications. In any event, there has to be some solution here because it's getting out of hand.

 

[drebo]

Mexican isn't a dialect, kiddo, lol.

For the amount of hours they work they're underpaid. You're clueless if you think they're overpaid considering the amount of grading and after-school work they have to do. Some districts have to deal with horrid circumstances where parents are totally clueless with nothing they can do about it other than report it to administrators.

My high school French teacher made $100k one year, teaching 4 classes. How much grading did she actually have to do? Not a whole lot, considering the first 10 minutes of class was spent grading our own papers. Teachers who are "overwhelmed" by the amount of "extra" work they need to do are teachers who don't know how to teach.

Also, Mexican is its own dialect...it has idioms and colloquialisms that do not exist in Spanish spoken in other parts of the world. Similar to how Brittish English is different than American English is different than Australian English. Or Brazilian Portugese is different than Portugese spoken in Portugal.

 

[soccerballtux]

How about we charge for police, fire protection, roads, etc... oh wait we already do. Its called taxs.

those taxes only pay for the administrative overhead of running such services. They don't actually pay for the services. A new opt-in fee is needed to pay for the services in these tough economic times.

 

[drebo]

This is a terrible post. Mexican? lol. Fucking tard.

Right...and yet nothing in it is so incorrect that you can cite sources refuting it.

$150 million dollar high schools: http://www.modbee.com/2010/08/01/1274969/gregori-high-students-experience.html

Worthless schools being taught in Spanish on purpose: http://www.turlock.k12.ca.us/sections/parent_info/Dual-Immersion-Program

Free college for illegals, most of which don't speak English well enough to write "Hello World" (I know this from personal experience): http://www.uncoverage.net/2011/03/d...ition-for-illegal-aliens-passes-in-committee/

You're fucking delusional if you don't think California has a spending problem when it comes to the education system. Unfortunately, they're spending it on all the wrong things.

 

[woolfe9999]

Right...and yet nothing in it is so incorrect that you can cite sources refuting it.

$150 million dollar high schools: http://www.modbee.com/2010/08/01/1274969/gregori-high-students-experience.html

Worthless schools being taught in Spanish on purpose: http://www.turlock.k12.ca.us/sections/parent_info/Dual-Immersion-Program

Free college for illegals, most of which don't speak English well enough to write "Hello World" (I know this from personal experience): http://www.uncoverage.net/2011/03/d...ition-for-illegal-aliens-passes-in-committee/

You're fucking delusional if you don't think California has a spending problem when it comes to the education system. Unfortunately, they're spending it on all the wrong things.

Are you able to actually quantify how much money is spent unwisely/inefficiently, or do you actually think you can make your case by proferring anecdotal examples?

 

[drebo]

Are you able to actually quantify how much money is spent unwisely/inefficiently, or do you actually think you can make your case by proferring anecdotal examples?

I wasn't aware that two high schools build down the street from each other for a combined $250+ million was anecdotal evidence.

No wonder liberals are never satisfied.

 

[First]

My high school French teacher made $100k one year, teaching 4 classes.

Your anecdotal BS experience (if true, which it doesn't sound like it is) is just that, an isolated and totally uncommon salary. Hell, my father has a PhD in neuropsychology and he's making $65K with 5+ years experience teaching and years in private and public academia.

How much grading did she actually have to do? Not a whole lot, considering the first 10 minutes of class was spent grading our own papers. Teachers who are "overwhelmed" by the amount of "extra" work they need to do are teachers who don't know how to teach.

Another made-up BS anecdote that doesn't represent reality. You can't possibly grade 4-5 classes in the first 10 minutes of each class, that's pure nonsense. The only way you'd be able to do it is if you simply didn't give out a lot of work, didn't do anything but scantrons and frankly were just a poor teacher to get around doing more work.

Also, Mexican is its own dialect...it has idioms and colloquialisms that do not exist in Spanish spoken in other parts of the world. Similar to how Brittish English is different than American English is different than Australian English. Or Brazilian Portugese is different than Portugese spoken in Portugal.

Mexican isn't a language, you'll have to deal with this reality at some point in your life. It just isn't, lol.

 

[First]

I wasn't aware that two high schools build down the street from each other for a combined $250+ million was anecdotal evidence.

No wonder liberals are never satisfied.

They're BS anecdotes because they're completely atypical, nowhere near common. Not particularly hard to grasp.

 

[Vette73]

I think this is unfairly dismissive of the OP's idea. The notion here is that those with children in school take on some extra burden to support the schools. Taxes apportion it to everyone, including those without children in school. Everyone needs roads, police and fire protection in place so the analogy isn't great. This is hardly a novel idea since we already pay tuition for public colleges and universities.

Ive never called the police, fire protection, or used most of the roads around here.
So again why not charge for police, fire, etc...? Why should I take on the extra burden because you did not wire your house well, not protect your house so the police have to come out, etc...?

 

[woolfe9999]

Ive never called the police, fire protection, or used most of the roads around here.
So again why not charge for police, fire, etc...? Why should I take on the extra burden because you did not wire your house well, not protect your house so the police have to come out, etc...?

We all have security because the police and fire protection are there. That security comes with a price. Never mind whether you have ever used it. You wouldn't want to live here if it wasn't in place. How do you know that you wouldn't have been a victim of a criminal not locked up because there are no police? It's like an insurance policy.

 

[Vette73]

We all have security because the police and fire protection are there. That security comes with a price. Never mind whether you have ever used it. You wouldn't want to live here if it wasn't in place. How do you know that you wouldn't have been a victim of a criminal not locked up because there are no police? It's like an insurance policy.

I have only seen the police in my area twice in the last 3 years.
That and fire departmnet does not stop fire so why do I pay for that by your reasoning?

 

[drebo]

They're BS anecdotes because they're completely atypical, nowhere near common. Not particularly hard to grasp.

Nowhere near common?

Apparently, they're very common, as both of the last two schools built in this area shared those same traits (over built and over budget).

 

[drebo]

Your anecdotal BS experience (if true, which it doesn't sound like it is) is just that, an isolated and totally uncommon salary. Hell, my father has a PhD in neuropsychology and he's making $65K with 5+ years experience teaching and years in private and public academia.



Another made-up BS anecdote that doesn't represent reality. You can't possibly grade 4-5 classes in the first 10 minutes of each class, that's pure nonsense. The only way you'd be able to do it is if you simply didn't give out a lot of work, didn't do anything but scantrons and frankly were just a poor teacher to get around doing more work.



Mexican isn't a language, you'll have to deal with this reality at some point in your life. It just isn't, lol.

Your childhood never happened, it's just a made up anecdote, because I say so.

Wow, your arguments are real persuasive. "I say it's so, so it's so"...regardless of the fact that 1) you don't live in california, and 2) you don't deal with their schools. You must not live in an area with many Mexicans if you don't realize they have their own brand of Spanish.

Come back when you have some perspective...or half a brain.

My God you're dumb.

See, this is the problem with the Federal government as a whole...it's a bunch of fat, old, white guys (with maybe a black guy or two thrown in) who don't have a fucking clue what's going on in any area except for DC and maybe, if they're not too busy evading taxes, embezzling, and fucking strippers, a small part of their constituency. Do you really think a guy from Maine knows what the problems going on in California are? FUCK NO! Why the hell should he have any say over what goes on here? You clearly have no clue about what's going on in California, and I'm damn fucking glad you have no say about how the state is run.

 

[woolfe9999]

I wasn't aware that two high schools build down the street from each other for a combined $250+ million was anecdotal evidence.

No wonder liberals are never satisfied.

You need to brush up on your definition of anecdotal evidence. You are trying to use examples of inefficient spending to argue that inefficient spending is the root cause of a budget crisis. That doesn't work. You need to quantify it. A one off expenditure of $250 million doesn't get you there, not in a state with a population this size that spends this much in total on education. News articles that show localized examples of poor fiscal judgment don't work. These may or may not be isolated cases. There are bound to be numerous examples of poor judgment in any system this large. You may well be right. But you haven't proven your case.

 

[First]

Nowhere near common?

Apparently, they're very common, as both of the last two schools built in this area shared those same traits (over built and over budget).

Did you just say they're common because two in "your area" were built? Two. Can't even tell if you're being serious. You really think two means 2 shits?

Your childhood never happened, it's just a made up anecdote, because I say so.

Wow, your arguments are real persuasive. "I say it's so, so it's so"...regardless of the fact that 1) you don't live in california, and 2) you don't deal with their schools. You must not live in an area with many Mexicans if you don't realize they have their own brand of Spanish.

Huh? I've lived in LA my whole life, went to LAUSD schools through 12th grade. Your nonsense anecdotes are simply isolated and uncommon. And, frankly, not believable since anyone sane knows french teachers don't typically get paid $100K in any circumstance.

Come back when you have some perspective...or half a brain.

My God you're dumb.

See, this is the problem with the Federal government as a whole...it's a bunch of fat, old, white guys (with maybe a black guy or two thrown in) who don't have a fucking clue what's going on in any area except for DC and maybe, if they're not too busy evading taxes, embezzling, and fucking strippers, a small part of their constituency. Do you really think a guy from Maine knows what the problems going on in California are? FUCK NO! Why the hell should he have any say over what goes on here? You clearly have no clue about what's going on in California, and I'm damn fucking glad you have no say about how the state is run.

You're confusing me with someone else, kid, I've never been to Maine. Your perspective on CA schools is just wrong.