A Short Treatise on Reincarnation

[voodooguy]

Reincarnation is incompatible with the beliefs of all three monotheistic religions.

If you believe in any one of the three monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) then you are required to believe that, when a person dies, his soul goes to Heaven or Hell, and stays there for an eternity. (Or until Armageddon in any case)

If souls could reincarnate themselves willy-nilly, then Heaven and Hell would lose all meaning. The point of leading a religious and good life is that you will remain in Heaven forever. The reason religious people avoid sin is because a sinful life causes you to remain in Hell forever.

Therefore, if you believe in reincarnation, you are Godless.


The previous threads were locked because they were NEFF threads.
This thread actually has something to contribute,therefor it will remain unlocked unless people start the NEFFING again.

AnandTech Moderator

 

[Lithium381]

seems to me like this oine will get locked with the rest, only not as quickly

 

[voodooguy]

The other threads are mostly humorous threads.

I am trying to inform people here.

 

[Schlocemus]

Uhhhhh....

 

[SendTrash]

<< Why did my thread get locked? >>

I guess the mods hate John Lennon

 

[Elledan]

First of all, reincarnation is far more likely to exist than some kind of afterlife.

Second of all, reincarnation is an important part of Buddhism and some other religions.

 

[Wallydraigle]

So what are you trying to say? That that makes one or the other "right" or "wrong"? I personally know several people who call themselves Christians and also believe in reincarnation. It might not be orthodox, but it suits them just fine, and more power to them. I am pretty sure that at least one branch of Judaism believes in reincarnation as well. I'm not sure what you are getting at.

 

[Elledan]

<< Why did my thread get locked? >>

Because the mods can only be programmed to lock certain topics, without the ability to exclude certain threads.

Actually, I don't know you can send them a PM with a request to unlock the thread.

 

[voodooguy]

<< So what are you trying to say? That that makes one or the other "right" or "wrong"? I personally know several people who call themselves Christians and also believe in reincarnation. >>



There is no right or wrong in religion.

I am simply saying that, if you are a Jew, Christian, and Muslim, you cannot believe your religion AND reincarnation at the same time.

You have to choose one or the other.

A Christian who believes in reincarnation is no longer a Christian. He has denounced the essential beliefs of his religion by believing in something that goes against the Bible. He leads a life of contradiction and denial.

As for Buddhism and similar religions, sure, they allow for reincarnation. But those are not monotheistic religions. Those are polytheistic religions.

P.S. Elledan, how do you calculate that reincarnation is "more likely" than afterlife? I would like to see your assumptions and the math that you have worked out to arrive at that result.

 

[pulse8]

<< You have to choose one or the other. >>



Which is one of the main reasons I very much dislike religion.

 

[Wallydraigle]

You're not getting it. It might not be possible to be a particular brand of Christian and believe in reincarnation, but like you said, there is no right or wrong. Why would you even argue me on that point?



<< There is no right or wrong in religion.

I am simply saying that, if you are a Jew, Christian, and Muslim, you cannot believe your religion AND reincarnation at the same time. >>



That statement seems very contradictory to me. If there is no wrong, why can't you pick what you want to believe? Even though you feel there is no wrong, someone who does this somehow illegitimizes their beliefs as far as you are concerned?

 

[Wallydraigle]

I already stated that there is at least one branch of Judaism that believes in the doctrine of reincarnation, and there is considerable evidence that early Christians did as well, even the Apostles, the first disciples of Christ. You might find this very interesting. Religion is never as clear cut as you are trying to make it. I don't understand why you would even try to argue such a point. People will believe what they want to. Most don't care if they are in their "proper category" or not.

 

[voodooguy]

<< That statement seems very contradictory to me. If there is no wrong, why can't you pick what you want to believe? >>



Let me rephrase that.

There is no right or wrong religion to believe in. You can believe in whichever religion you want and nobody has a right to criticize your choice of religion.

HOWEVER once you start believing in a religion, you have to believe in the totality of it. Once you start perverting the beliefs or the practices of a religion, you can no longer call yourself a member of that religion.

A so-called Christian who also believes in reincarnation has perverted Christianity and is no longer Christian.

 

[oLLie]

You call Buddhism a polytheistic religion? How much do you know about Buddhism?

*I'll admit that I don't know much about it myself*

 

[Wallydraigle]

Please read the article I posted. It may very well be that Christians who don't believe in reincarnation are the ones who have perverted the religion. All religions change over time. Of course until one religion shifts into another there are going to be sects who take some of both. I don't understand how you think that's illegitimate. For years, even centuries, Christianity itself was viewed as a perverted form of Judaism. Now it's legitimate, mostly because of emperor Constantine. Beliefs change. It doesn't help anyone trying to be so rigid about it.

 

[voodooguy]

<< All religions change over time. >>



The Bible does not change over time.

The beliefs of Christianity are outlined in the Bible.

Any so-called "sect" that contradicts the teachings of the Bible (as in the case of reincarnation) has perverted Christianity, and its members can no longer rightfully call themselves Christians.

Let me repeat that again. It does not matter that the members of a sect calls themselves Christians. If their beliefs contradict with the words of the Bible, they are NOT Christians.

If I call myself a shoe, I am not necessarily a shoe. If a person calls himself Christian, he is not necessarily Christian.

 

[Perknose]

<< If you believe in any one of the three monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) then you are required to believe that, when a person dies, his soul goes to Heaven or Hell, and stays there for an eternity. (Or until Armageddon in any case) >>



I believe your facts are not quite correct, sir. My many Jewish friends have long since let me know that the Jewish religion's sense of Heaven and Hell are murky, at best. At a minimum, Jews are most definitely not required to believe in Heaven or Hell. Judaism focuses much more on your being a good person in this lifetime.

I wish that more people had this focus, and didn't try to impose their rigid interpretations of scripture on others. I really, really do.

 

[Elledan]

<<
<< All religions change over time. >>



The Bible does not change over time.

The beliefs of Christianity are outlined in the Bible. >>


Then explain Protestantism.

In a sense you're correct, though. Religions are ideologies and ideologies never change since they're rigid structured. If an ideology fails to fulfill a certain purpose (for some people), a new ideology is created.

Presto: Catholicism and Protestantism.

 

[Elledan]

<< P.S. Elledan, how do you calculate that reincarnation is "more likely" than afterlife? I would like to see your assumptions and the math that you have worked out to arrive at that result. >>


It's quite simple, actually. Let me show you:

Reincarnation can take place in this universe, even this planet and does not require the creation of some mysterious, supernatural world, or any other supernatural things for that matter. It's compatible with science.

An afterlife requires a supernatural world, probably some supernatural beings (e.g., gods, angels) and is therefore incompatible with science.

When we apply Occam's Razor to these two theories, only the theory of reincarnation remains.

 

[Perknose]

<< Therefore, if you believe in reincarnation, you are Godless. >>



Tell that to a practicing Hindhu, and he/she'll call down Siva, Kali, Vishnu et. al. on your arrogant ass.



<< As for Buddhism and similar religions, sure, they allow for reincarnation. But those are not monotheistic religions. Those are polytheistic religions. >>



LOL, inform yourself! Buddhists are NOT only NOT polytheistic, they believe in exactly one less God than do monotheists. You getting this?

 

[voodooguy]

<< Reincarnation can take place in this universe, even this planet and does not require the creation of some mysterious, supernatural world, or any other supernatural things for that matter. It's compatible with science. >>



That is not quite correct. Reincarnation assumes the existence of souls, which are quite supernatural beings, since they are not constrained by the laws of physics. Reincarnation also assumes the existence of a "limbo", a place where souls can go and wait until they are reincarnated.

If souls can exist, why not other supernatural beings? If limbo can exist, why not Heaven and Hell?

Occam's Razor does not apply in this case. Reincarnation is just as sensible (or nonsensical) as belief in Heaven and Hell.

 

[voodooguy]

<< Siva, Kali, Vishnu et. al. >>





<< Buddhists are NOT only NOT polytheistic, they believe in exactly <STRONG>one less God</STRONG> than do monotheists. >>



Confused much?

 

[Perknose]

<< Reincarnation is just as sensible (or nonsensical) as belief in Heaven and Hell. >>



At long last, good sir, we agree.

 

[Elledan]

<<

<< Siva, Kali, Vishnu et. al. >>





<< Buddhists are NOT only NOT polytheistic, they believe in exactly <STRONG>one less God</STRONG> than do monotheists. >>



Confused much? >>

You're confusing Buddhists with Hinduists.

 

[voodooguy]

<< You're confusing Buddhists with Hinduists. >>



Who cares, they are all Godless.