Who's going to write all this 'software' and what's the incentive when you are trying to put food on the table? Also, I've contracted for a lot of companies who are respective 'monopolists' in their respective industries and I don't see an army of Open Source geeks trying to put them out of business.
Who's going to write all this 'software' and what's the incentive when you are trying to put food on the table? Also, I've contracted for a lot of companies who are respective 'monopolists' in their respective industries and I don't see an army of Open Source geeks trying to put them out of business.
Nothinman
Elite Member
- Sep 14, 2001
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The software already exists, Linux on the desktop has been good enough for me for at least a decade now. Windows is just grandfathered in, besides games and a few niche commercial apps I don't see Windows having any advantages over Linux right now.
But games matter at getting people to convert. Until Linux gaming is on par with Windows gaming, I cannot switch my home computers over.
In day to day computer use, no there's not much advantage to Windows. I use Ubuntu at work for my OS, and have no problems with it basically; well, until I try to play WMA lossless audio files I extracted on my home PCs.
In any case, there's a reason people still use Windows, besides 'used to it'. I personally like having a GUI for troubleshooting things; command line has its place, but a lot of my experience with just about anything designed for linux is that the program usually depends on editing .cfg files and logs, and less about having a nice GUI to enable or disable things.
Nothinman
Elite Member
- Sep 14, 2001
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Games won't convert people, if that were the case then consoles would rule all because there are a lot less problems to deal with. And Linux won't be on par with Windows in game support any time soon, hell OS X just now got limited Steam support and lots of people see Macs as valid alternatives.
People use Windows because they're used to it, the one thing Windows fails at hardest is troubleshooting. Event viewer is almost completely worthless and most apps tell you absolutely nothing in the name of being user friendly. Most of the time the first answer is "reinstall whatever's broken" or grab a 3rd party tool like procmon and hope it gives you more information about what might be the real problem. I've done my share of troubleshooting both systems and Linux absolutely kills Windows in the troubleshooting arena, there's just no contest.
I don't know how recently you've looked at Linux but I barely touch the command line these days, except for things I prefer to do there. There's just so many tasks that are quicker that way once you know how to do them.
And you can blame MS for the lack of WMA support on any system besides Windows. Open formats like MP3, FLAC, Vorbis, etc work just fine. The fact that you chose a format created, owned and supported by one company is on you.
Linux will always be in last place. No support. No software. Experienced users are always hostile to new users with questions and problems. Only place where Linux makes sense is in server clusters. But those are few and far in between.
I respect Bill Gates because for 100$ I got a software environment that does what I need it do. Let's me add what I want to add. And does just about everything.
Viruses are not Microsoft's fault, they are the fault of the 10.1% minority of non Windows users in the world that can't stand to see someone use an OS they don't like. I blame you the Unix users for creating viruses on the only successful non unix platform in the world. I blame you the Unix user for spreading this negativity towards microsoft and windows because they are bigger and better than you will ever be. I would love for nothing more than to see mac and linux viruses get the same attention and reach the same magnitude and windows viruses do.
It's a Windows World and I'm glad I'm living in it. 90% of the world runs windows you should too.
Edit: Red Means Serious. Green Means Joking. Because some people are Autistic. And Blue to balance it all out.
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lxskllr
No Lifer
- Nov 30, 2004
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Nothinman
Elite Member
- Sep 14, 2001
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Wow, emo. Support is there if you want to pay someone like RedHat, Canonical, HP, etc for it and IMO the software available is almost always better than the closed source, Windows alternatives. I've been using Linux on my desktop for around a decade now and the only thing Windows has is games.
And every Android user is another Linux user, so it won't be a Windows world forever
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
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There is not much advantage to the average man using Linux. At $100 for an Windows OS or spending some bucks for MacOS with the ability to do 'windows' too. It's an easy pick unless you have a farm of workstations/servers and not much dough.
If you are a gamer, it's a Windows/Console world.
Everything else Windows or Mac.
If you are more a mechanic than driver, load up *nix.
If you are a gamer, it's a Windows/Console world.
Everything else Windows or Mac.
If you are more a mechanic than driver, load up *nix.
Don't take it so hard. I was only half-joking at the poster I was quoting.
But, if Linux is meant to be free then why do I have buy a companies version of a linux product to gain support? Doesn't that go against the spirit of Linux? Open and Free?
What does Open Source have to do with quality? I have chrome and I like it. But that doesn't mean I like all 'open source' products. Likewise with MS 'closed source.' I like windows, but I dislike IE. Doesn't mean liking windows = loving microsoft and vice versa.
I have an Droid X and I like it. But, I want more from it. I'm hyped about the windows phone but cautiously optimistic. I want from my droid the same experience my windows desktop offers me. I don't like macs/iphones/ipads but I respect how they sync with other apple products.
I'd love it if Windows Phone 7 synced with my Desktop 7 install. If I could use it as remote to my desktop that be cool and worth buying.
I think people are forgetting that if you are a computer illiterate, people already have enough trouble using Windows let alone Linux. Linux is nice, I like terminal and things like that but Windows seems a lot easier to use. I wouldn't recommend Linux to many computer users I know who can't even Google a problem they have.
Then if you play games or want to use certain applications, Windows is nice. Everything supports Microsoft Word, but you can have annoying formatting issues if you use something else. Its just convenience really. And I don't think pre-built PC prices would decrease by $100 so for the vast majority of users, Windows doesn't even cost all that much. The prebuild/laptop industry really dictates which OS will be used. Linux is kind of a pain on a Laptop, my friend had to buy a new computer for Linux because his Sony Vaio Z wouldn't work with it properly. So that is another major problem with Linux, laptops don't use it well, and the thing is there is this thing called "opportunity cost". If you are say paid $100 an hour and it takes you 10 hours to figure out Linux, lets say your opportunity cost for that is $1000. So when you take into account "opportunity cost" Linux isn't really free
Then if you play games or want to use certain applications, Windows is nice. Everything supports Microsoft Word, but you can have annoying formatting issues if you use something else. Its just convenience really. And I don't think pre-built PC prices would decrease by $100 so for the vast majority of users, Windows doesn't even cost all that much. The prebuild/laptop industry really dictates which OS will be used. Linux is kind of a pain on a Laptop, my friend had to buy a new computer for Linux because his Sony Vaio Z wouldn't work with it properly. So that is another major problem with Linux, laptops don't use it well, and the thing is there is this thing called "opportunity cost". If you are say paid $100 an hour and it takes you 10 hours to figure out Linux, lets say your opportunity cost for that is $1000. So when you take into account "opportunity cost" Linux isn't really free
lxskllr
No Lifer
- Nov 30, 2004
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That's a different kind of free, and less important than the other kind of free. That kind of free relates to cost. No cost software is great, but it isn't yours to do as you wish. Depending on license, you can't distribute it, or modify it, and it's only yours to use under limited terms.
The other kind of free gives you the power to do with it as you choose. If it doesn't work exactly as you like, you can change it so it does. Your friend wants a copy too? You can give him one. That program might cost you money, but it's free.
With open source, anyone can look at the code. More eyes looking at something reveals more problems. If you don't trust a company to not collect data from your machine, you can check open source code to make sure it doesn't. With closed source, you just trust them, or not. There's no way to verify.
Nothinman
Elite Member
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As lxskllr says, the software and it's usage, distribution, etc are all what's free. If you want someone's help then you're going to have to pay for their time. And lots of people volunteer their time on forums like this, mailing lists, etc so you don't have to pay for support but it's an option.
Free software generally produces higher quality code because more people see it. When you know other people will be looking at and critiquing your code you spend more time on readability, good habits, etc. Yes, there are exceptions and not all free software is awesome but it's a good general rule. Virtually every closed source program that's been leaked or rereleased under a free license has been greeted with "OMG WTF were they thinking?" even after it was cleaned up.
Our engineers have the Droid X and they don't seem nearly as nice as my Incredible. The software put out by Motorola isn't anywhere near as nice as HTC Sense or even the stuff in CyanogenMod which I'm running now. And the hardware's more locked down than my Incredible so you can't even put CyanogenMod on it right now if you wanted. Despite Motorola being viewed as the face of Android, I don't think their Android products are really that great. I think the Xoom is a step forward since they gave you the ability to unlock it, but we'll see if that applies to anything else.
Google, Motorola, HTC, etc could come out with a desktop suite but I think they would rather work with "the cloud" like htcsense.com. I absolutely hate iTunes and am glad that Android has avoided requiring something like that so far.
Viggysmalls said:
Except that Linux is the same or simpler for basic tasks, it comes with a lot more software out of the box and essentially has an "app store" in the form of the package manager. I would highly recommend Linux for users that only need basic functionality and you know won't be trying to do anything weird on their own. Because they'll end up calling you for help regardless, so what's it matter to them if it's Windows or Linux if you're the one managing it for them? Choose the one you know better and they'll thank you for it.
Viggysmalls said:
Windows doesn't work well with lots of hardware either so that's a non-issue. No matter what OS you're using, you need to do research before buying anything. Sure lots of cheap crap from BestBuy comes with a Windows driver disc, but it's still a crapshoot whether that hardware and drivers actually work well or not.
StinkyPinky
Diamond Member
- Jul 6, 2002
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Linux has a lot of hidden costs, especially for a business. It sounds great for a business to just install Ubuntu on desktops for "nothing". But when something goes wrong...where's the support? Add in the fact that people use programs like Photoshop etc that only work on Mac/Win then Linux is a distant third.
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
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QFT...the is the big thing with canned software in a business. You really aren't buying the 'program' you are paying to have the support behind it.
It's like Cisco, part of the deal that lets you open up a TAC case and get a team of engineers at your disposal goes a long way when you only have mid-level engineers employed.
I am not bagging on *nix. Personally its a great OS and I do use it on things like boot discs for password recovery and disk repair when windows or macOS is the real base OS.
If Windows was a $1000 license for home use, I'd be on a linux distribution in a heartbeat. I actually have some Slackware CD's behind me on a shelf from ten+ years ago when I dabbled in it.
mammador
Platinum Member
- Dec 9, 2010
- 2,120
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Linux would only get traction in the market if somebody markets a consumer copy, complete with branding, tech support, etc. As only computer-savvy people use it, the average Joe has no clue about it, or how to use it. That being said, Windows 7 is the only decent MS OS ever made, and MS Office the only competent MS product. Other than that, MS can suck ass.
Nothinman
Elite Member
- Sep 14, 2001
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The support comes from the same place it does with Windows, whatever company you paid for it. In the case of Linux you can get support contracts from RedHat, Canonnical, HP, etc.
And those costs aren't hidden, if you don't realize that you need someone that knows the system in order to support it then you shouldn't be making those decisions. People who claim to know Windows may be cheaper and easier to find, but they're also usually cheap for a reason and hiring them is why you end up with your AD domain named workgroup.com or your "internal" IP ranges be real, routeable IPs used by another company on the Internet. Yes, those are actual occurrences for two of our clients and no, none of our engineers did that. Windows requires so much more in support it's not funny, which technically is good for me because my company makes a good amount of money when one of us has to spend hours cleaning viruses off of people's XP machines.
And things like Exchange and IIS are so terrible to troubleshoot that it's not even funny. It's like MS intentionally makes them obtuse so that no one can really understand them. We also have a client that we migrated to BPOS and recently they lost a mailbox, it just up and disappeared and MS had no explanation as to why and didn't even have the mailbox restored last I checked which was a week after the mailbox disappeared. Another ticket we opened with BPOS for something simple like message tracking logs for an email never got answered, eventually we just told them never mind and to close the ticket.
I'm not saying that Linux is the answer to everything, but lack of support is so far from an issue that it's not even funny.
Nothinman
Elite Member
- Sep 14, 2001
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I don't think there was a Win9X->NT4 upgrade path which rules that out. And I was more suprised that he wasted his time with Win98SE since the main feature there was 32-bit FAT. I think he should've just went Win95->Win98-WinME and skipped all of the minor releases, but it's his time to waste.
Maximilian
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2004
- 12,604
- 15
- 81
Awesome. Ive always wondered what would happen if someone bought windows 1.0 and then became a cheapskate and just bought upgrade versions for everything after that.
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