A scholar identifies an alarming trend among US men.

[Maxima1]

Everything you say is dishonest as usual. I will simply point out one simple thing that encapsulates your entire way of 'debating' - where the hell did I mention any 30 million word gap study or anything, or even bring in poverty? Nowhere and didn't imply it either. In fact I even said that in no way I was implying one gender has it worse than the other, but I was clarifying your misleading comments. Again, you just make shit up in your wacked mind about what you are arguing against and make things up.

Bigly sad.

Go back to your original post that I was responding to. You quoted and bold the portion that said hanging was less than 10%. I was pointing out that was wrong.

That's rich. You have a habit of trying to attack irrelevant things if you can't take an argument head-on. The sample size of the survey for why people choose methods was irrelevant to me quoting the background information (external source) on fatality rate.

 

[MrSquished]

Go back to your original post that I was responding to. You quoted and bold the portion that said hanging was less than 10%. I was pointing out that was wrong.

That's rich. You have a habit of trying to attack irrelevant things if you can't take an argument head-on. The sample size of the survey for why people choose methods was irrelevant to me quoting the background information (external source) on fatality rate.

If you want to falsely bring in arguments about a 30 million word shortage and all that and making up entire arguments I never made, please quote me where I provided false information.

 

[Pohemi]

So you're just going to ignore what I said about Pew? Amusing btw seeing the railroad thread. XD

In 2019, full-time, year-round working women earned 82% of what their male counterparts earned, according to the Census Bureau’s most recent analysis.

Why does a gender pay gap still persist?

Much of this gap has been explained by measurable factors such as educational attainment, occupational segregation and work experience. The narrowing of the gap is attributable in large part to gains women have made in each of these dimensions.

I ignored your bad argument, maybe. You are using data describing ALL of the workforce in total, divided by gender. How about finding some data on differences in pay between genders in the same jobs? Oh, right. Because that would be honest. Better to use data you can misrepresent an argument with, as if nobody will notice.

That's rich. You have a habit of trying to attack irrelevant things if you can't take an argument head-on.

Not only are you strawmanning imaginary arguments, but you then project your own strawman fuckery on others. You're a dishonest clown.

 

[Maxima1]

If you want to falsely bring in arguments about a 30 million word shortage and all that and making up entire arguments I never made, please quote me where I provided false information.

The little survey inquiry you nitpicked was so basic that it doesn't matter in that case, but you thought attacking it would "get" me when 1). I didn't mention anything about the survey 2). it's so basic the findings aren't illuminating so what's your point on it being a "small study" if you don't disagree with it (or do you?),

I know you didn't. I'm pointing out terrible studies are everywhere and you surely would eat up a lot of it if it aligned with your priors. Hell, you posted from some random website, and didn't even look at the research they were gathering info from, but since me linking the the survey on hanging fatality rate challenged your settled opinions you tried to latch onto anything even if it was irrelevant to dismiss it.

I ignored your bad argument, maybe. You are using data describing ALL of the workforce in total, divided by gender. How about finding some data on differences in pay between genders in the same jobs? Oh, right. Because that would be honest. Better to use data you can misrepresent an argument with, as if nobody will notice.

Young, full-time women make over somewhere above 90% of what men make in aggregate. Most of that gap is not unexplained, so only a few percent could even be attributed to discrimination.

So all the government jobs, accountants, engineers, etc. (not silly stuff like whining about partner, CEO, etc.) you believe there is some big difference? Common sense tells you this is stupid.

 

[Moonbeam]

No I didn't, 'they' was meaning the orcas that committed the act. You assumed wrongly about me as per your usual.

At any rate, morality is subjective and the entire topic is navel-gazing anyway./QUOTE]

But what you told me was based on an observation you assumed happened that you didn't see yourself or report was called evil by those in witness. So you yourself added the part about the killer whales being evil as far as I can tell. Furthermore, if morality were actually subjective as you mistakenly claim it to be, then whatever people decide personally or as a group to tag with the label 'evil', is purely a made up notion with no reality at all except to the person or the group. Thus your idea of what is navel gazing and what is important for understanding the questions of the greatest of importance to thinkers and sages over the ages you have made the assumption are of no relevance.

I don't have a problem with your state of delusion, I call it the inevitable ignorance that comes with growing up in the dark, but I must protest your implication that the problem is on my end.

The very fact that you called those orcas evil, plus the notion that morality is subjective, reveals your inconsistent hypocrisy. At a superficial level you prove my case that the notion of evil is an invention of the mind. On that we agree.

 

[Jaskalas]

What an interesting topic. Not the least of all... the replies.

To witness people who are supposedly Democrats, be confronted with a disenfranchised group... and instead of empathy, compassion, or a way forward together... the universal response appears to be to !@#$ off and to speak of "agency". Ah yes, the mythical bootstraps Republicans tell the poors to use. As if that exists. Yet when an apparent enemy has need, Democrats here bring forth the Republican talking point. Or we point to someone else and imagine that pain and suffering cannot exist for everyone, as if it is something exclusive.

The fundamental flaw is for you to believe that we are not ALL human. That we are not all deserving. That is when you lose them. Before there is even a fight for the soul of this nation, you surrender the largest demographic.

This society of ours is sick and mortally wounded. Reaganomics has resulted in a cut throat dog-eat-dog environment where we fight over scraps and Wall Street runs amok with trillions freely given... by us. The humans living in these conditions, as the Middle Class collapses... they are all deserving of so much more than they are getting. Think of how they are living, fighting and clawing to be the top rat on top the hill. Placing anyone above them, even symbolically, is a call to arms for baser instincts. It is red meat to the death and destruction we have been trained to provide. The moment they think you want their cheese, it's over. It is a Pavlovian response borne of a sick society, humans conditioned to compete against and to HATE one another.

If you do not look at the flipping of the Rust Belt as Reagan's victory and Clinton's defeat, you have not been paying attention. The 80s saw a big Republican !@#$ you to the country. The 90s saw a Democrat retreat in not mounting a successful challenge to the new status quo. One where, decades later, those not considered poor or deserving by you.... are living paycheck to paycheck. They may have a token of esteem such as a house, or a new car. Maybe their kids are even in College. But those lavishes were paid for by their souls. By overworking and overextending in a mountain of debt. They are one accident or hospital bill away from losing a life time of work. It is a grueling grind and it has bred resentment, hatred. It has sucked the soul of the nation out and replaced it with bitter discontent. Republicans successfully harnessed this discontent by 2016.

Do not twist this topic into men vs women. Have at it, and you lose. The only thing of concern should be how to win people over, and if not... best ID the nearest gun store cause you're going to need it. Terrorism and fascism will compete for the shape of things to come. By this broken husk of a group you deem worthy to mock and to spite and to consider lost already.

In conclusion, if you think anyone not already voting Dem is a lost cause....
You waste your words, when your own logical conclusion would have you driving to the nearest gun store.
But should you think words are worth saying... that hope may yet exist, then the topic should rightly be directed at WHAT the problem is... and HOW to solve it.
Otherwise none of us need bother with words, when the issue of America's failures will be resolved through other means.

Perhaps what I wonder... after reading through so many personal attacks, and hostile declarations for the subjects of... the thread's subject. Has anyone anything constructive to add? Or has civil discourse run its course?

 

[Pohemi]

Young, full-time women make over somewhere above 90% of what men make in aggregate. Most of that gap is not unexplained, so only a few percent could even be attributed to discrimination.

So all the government jobs, accountants, engineers, etc. (not silly stuff like whining about partner, CEO, etc.) you believe there is some big difference? Common sense tells you this is stupid.

Holy fuck you're an idiot. You even QUOTED my last comment, and proceeded to AGAIN post the exact same shit I called you out for. You don't even realize it because you're frothing too hard.

 

[Maxima1]

Holy fuck you're an idiot. You even QUOTED my last comment, and proceeded to post the exact same shit I called you out for. You don't even realize it because you're frothing too hard.

Accounting for occupational segregation and other factors is accounting for that obviously you dolt.

 

[Pohemi]

What an interesting topic. Not the least of all... the replies.

And other than your first full paragraph (sort of?), none of your post was addressing the thread topic. This is about gender inequality, not the general political atmosphere of the country.

How about you stop derailing into #bothsides, and stop trying to turn men into victims.

Accounting for occupational segregation and other factors is accounting for that obviously you dolt.

No, it isn't. You're still a clown.

 

[Maxima1]

No, it isn't. You're still a clown.

You're retarded.

 

[MrSquished]

What an interesting topic. Not the least of all... the replies.

To witness people who are supposedly Democrats, be confronted with a disenfranchised group... and instead of empathy, compassion, or a way forward together... the universal response appears to be to !@#$ off and to speak of "agency". Ah yes, the mythical bootstraps Republicans tell the poors to use. As if that exists. Yet when an apparent enemy has need, Democrats here bring forth the Republican talking point. Or we point to someone else and imagine that pain and suffering cannot exist for everyone, as if it is something exclusive.

The fundamental flaw is for you to believe that we are not ALL human. That we are not all deserving. That is when you lose them. Before there is even a fight for the soul of this nation, you surrender the largest demographic.

This society of ours is sick and mortally wounded. Reaganomics has resulted in a cut throat dog-eat-dog environment where we fight over scraps and Wall Street runs amok with trillions freely given... by us. The humans living in these conditions, as the Middle Class collapses... they are all deserving of so much more than they are getting. Think of how they are living, fighting and clawing to be the top rat on top the hill. Placing anyone above them, even symbolically, is a call to arms for baser instincts. It is red meat to the death and destruction we have been trained to provide. The moment they think you want their cheese, it's over. It is a Pavlovian response borne of a sick society, humans conditioned to compete against and to HATE one another.

If you do not look at the flipping of the Rust Belt as Reagan's victory and Clinton's defeat, you have not been paying attention. The 80s saw a big Republican !@#$ you to the country. The 90s saw a Democrat retreat in not mounting a successful challenge to the new status quo. One where, decades later, those not considered poor or deserving by you.... are living paycheck to paycheck. They may have a token of esteem such as a house, or a new car. Maybe their kids are even in College. But those lavishes were paid for by their souls. By overworking and overextending in a mountain of debt. They are one accident or hospital bill away from losing a life time of work. It is a grueling grind and it has bred resentment, hatred. It has sucked the soul of the nation out and replaced it with bitter discontent. Republicans successfully harnessed this discontent by 2016.

Do not twist this topic into men vs women. Have at it, and you lose. The only thing of concern should be how to win people over, and if not... best ID the nearest gun store cause you're going to need it. Terrorism and fascism will compete for the shape of things to come. By this broken husk of a group you deem worthy to mock and to spite and to consider lost already.

In conclusion, if you think anyone not already voting Dem is a lost cause....
You waste your words, when your own logical conclusion would have you driving to the nearest gun store.
But should you think words are worth saying... that hope may yet exist, then the topic should rightly be directed at WHAT the problem is... and HOW to solve it.
Otherwise none of us need bother with words, when the issue of America's failures will be resolved through other means.

Perhaps what I wonder... after reading through so many personal attacks, and hostile declarations for the subjects of... the thread's subject. Has anyone anything constructive to add? Or has civil discourse run its course?

I have and fully support policies that would benefit men in America. Especially those who are suffering from economic hardships. And not once in this thread that I argue that they don't exist or dismiss them whatsoever. I've been too busy countering misinformation being posted by the usual suspects.

However on that note I would say that I think the battle lines have been drawn and economically disadvantaged white men have chosen their side. It is pretty clear that when you are in a union and support all that unions give you yet you hate the Democrats and support the republicans because you like to hate others, even though time after time the Democrats vote for things that benefit you, then at some point we have to decide who are the enemies and who are people we can deal with.

We have the entire history of the world to recognize that when a population does not recognize who the enemies are at some point, they get destroyed from within. I think that time has come. Those men have shown what truly drives them and it is hating immigrants, gays, women, minorities versus voting for a party that will increase their economic successes and instead of vote for a party that consistently wants to take away their opportunities.

I think the Democrats have tried long enough and the longer we think that we can just reach out to people means we will never be prepared for what the enemy is doing. I'm not saying change our policies or not try to reach out, but you also have to realize the battle lines have been drawn. Those men have chosen the side they want to be on and they're only digging in deeper and deeper.

The old adage that sometimes you have to cut your losses is true, because while the other side is preparing for battle you'll be caught with your pants down.

 

[Moonbeam]

I have and fully support policies that would benefit men in America. Especially those who are suffering from economic hardships. And not once in this thread that I argue that they don't exist or dismiss them whatsoever. I've been too busy countering misinformation being posted by the usual suspects.

However on that note I would say that I think the battle lines have been drawn and economically disadvantaged white men have chosen their side. It is pretty clear that when you are in a union and support all that unions give you yet you hate the Democrats and support the republicans because you like to hate others, even though time after time the Democrats vote for things that benefit you, then at some point we have to decide who are the enemies and who are people we can deal with.

We have the entire history of the world to recognize that when a population does not recognize who the enemies are at some point, they get destroyed from within. I think that time has come. Those men have shown what truly drives them and it is hating immigrants, gays, women, minorities versus voting for a party that will increase their economic successes and instead of vote for a party that consistently wants to take away their opportunities.

I think the Democrats have tried long enough and the longer we think that we can just reach out to people means we will never be prepared for what the enemy is doing. I'm not saying change our policies or not try to reach out, but you also have to realize the battle lines have been drawn. Those men have chosen the side they want to be on and they're only digging in deeper and deeper.

The old adage that sometimes you have to cut your losses is true, because while the other side is preparing for battle you'll be caught with your pants down.

I think what Jaskalas is suggesting is that when you think you know who gets cut as a loss, your certainty about the evil of the others, it really amounts to you pulling your own pants down.

 

[MrSquished]

I think what Jaskalas is suggesting is that when you think you know who gets cut as a loss, your certainty about the evil of the others, it really amounts to you pulling your own pants down.

Like I said when Obama was elected I was naive and truly thought this country was moving forward, had just leaped a huge hurdle, that at its core America and the right could redeem themselves and move forward.

Let's see what happened since Obama got elected. They got worse and worse until Trump.

I used to be as naive as you but I'm not anymore. I think it's concerning you still are. If you haven't learned your lesson of what the conservatives are in the last 14 years and that's your problem not mine. I'm hoping to reach people that still have some senses left in them

 

[Moonbeam]

Like I said when Obama was elected I was naive and truly thought this country was moving forward, had just leaped a huge hurdle, that at its core America and the right could redeem themselves and move forward.

Let's see what happened since Obama got elected. They got worse and worse until Trump.

I used to be as naive as you but I'm not anymore. I think it's concerning you still are. If you haven't learned your lesson of what the conservatives are in the last 14 years and that's your problem not mine. I'm hoping to reach people that still have some senses left in them

Long before Republicans became an obvious threat, back in the days when you used to be naive, I knew the real threat conservative thinking poses, because I saw the psychological dimensions of repressed self hate knowing how we are all infected with it. You still don’t see that and are still blind to the extent of the danger, but most importantly blind to how your reactions augment that threat and can contribute nothing to solving it. I can so state but I can’t make you see it. It’s just the way you need to feel.

 

[senseamp]

US men keep voting for trickle down. And, well, it's working. They are getting trickled down on.

 

[MrSquished]

Long before Republicans became an obvious threat, back in the days when you used to be naive, I knew the real threat conservative thinking poses, because I saw the psychological dimensions of repressed self hate knowing how we are all infected with it. You still don’t see that and are still blind to the extent of the danger, but most importantly blind to how your reactions augment that threat and can contribute nothing to solving it. I can so state but I can’t make you see it. It’s just the way you need to feel.

I can't help people who think Hitler was a misunderstood painter.

 

[MrSquished]

And you know moonbeam, you can use Obama as an example of the left being led by someone with pure politeness and thinking there was actual openness to debate and work together on the other side. That at their core these were people that could be decent if you treated them nicely. Obama was a very definition of polite and making it effort to reach across the aisle and everything you say we should be doing.

What did we get out of that. We got the tea party, we got Trump, his entire movement and the freedom caucus, and we got more openly vile racism and bigotry and misogyny then we've had in a while. And then we also got an attempt to overthrow democracy, and they stole a supreme court seat from him.

I mean just thinking there's no bad people out there and they were just perceived poorly really worked out well didn't it. This is very recent history. If you can't learn from old history that's a problem but if you can't even learn from the stuff that happened in the last 10 to 15 years and you are in real deep trouble