A scholar identifies an alarming trend among US men.

[darkswordsman17]

There's some weird assumptions going on here.

Stop putting each gender in a little narrow box, it might have "worked"in th 1950`s and before. The world has changed, and once you have tasted freedom you don't want to crawl back into the box.

Obviously it is much more difficult now and requires the ability to reflect on yourself, your identity and the people you meet. You cannot make assumptions and expectations based on the traditional norms anymore.
That is the cost of personal freedom. Unfortunately it requires that you have been tought how to handle this, either through the educational system or through social network you have. And from my superfluous understanding of the US society this not something these men have access to.

But in their minds, other peoples' freedoms infringe on theirs, nevermind their freedoms have been infringing on others' for decades. As usual, just more of the broken conservative brain syndrome where they cannot handle the things they regularly do, and so resort to "might makes right" idiocy to try to get their way, and if they can't get their way, well they're gonna try and kill a bunch of people when they go out. Often this is their supposed loved ones.

 

[Moonbeam]

The real problem is they're not just tolerated but elevated by clownfucking dipshits like the OP, who are incapable of seeing reality as it is, and instead are desperate to keep their sham fairlyland. They take no responsibility for their actions and blame everyone else, and then demand that we accept that or else they'll perpetrate violence.

It really is...something to see how the OP so desperately tried to portray himself as some deep thinker, not that anyone was really fooled with his rambling nonsense that just showed it was much more likely he'd experienced debilitating head injury, and now just constantly has to show he's just a pathetic scared limp dick right wing caricature. Wait, is OP Herschel Walker?

Did your post get a wall 'o text response blathering on about how its the woke left that forced him to have to use such terms? I wanna gauge where exactly on the descent into full RWNJ the OP has slipped to this time.

The weirdest part is, even his own brain (well unless its multiple people using that account) works against this narrative he pushes. Notice in the leadup to the election he had cooled a lot of this stuff and was often calling out shit behavior by Republicans? He stopped all the gun nut shit, stopped all the both sides arguments, stopped all the blathering rambling and had brief pointed criticisms of overwhelmingly right wing behavior. Once the election was over he's now back to spewing this shit. Even he recognizes how dangerous the shit he's spewing is, which is why he clamps down on it when it matters, but he's been so gaslit he can't stop. I almost feel bad for him, but he knows how to fix it. Just like the other right wingers we saw follow basically the exact same path. Seriously, I hope he gets help before he hurts himself or someone else, as that's the path he's on.

Liberals are typically more open minded than you are and also more relaxed. You have my sympathy. I know how much pain I had to experience to ameliorate that very thing. I remember my first professional visit for help. I was told I was defensive and totally denied it. Hehe, trust me, I know what a clownfucking dipshit looks like.

And please tell fiskimospy the proper way to avoid replying to a troll is to refer to him in a post to somebody else. Nobody will notice what a hypocrite you are that way.

 

[Sunburn74]

Men are doing as badly in life as whites are doing with college admissions to Ivy league schools. Men are doing so badly that almost all the billionaires, CEOs, political leaders, highest paid movie stars, top doctors (chiefs of staff. For example something like 80% of ob gyn chiefs of staff are male in a field where 70% of the doctors are female), military leaders etc are male. I'm a man and know my sex is definitely giving me a leg up.

 

[Moonbeam]

But in their minds, other peoples' freedoms infringe on theirs, nevermind their freedoms have been infringing on others' for decades. As usual, just more of the broken conservative brain syndrome where they cannot handle the things they regularly do, and so resort to "might makes right" idiocy to try to get their way, and if they can't get their way, well they're gonna try and kill a bunch of people when they go out. Often this is their supposed loved ones.

Clearly you are agent provocateur undercover right winger plant whose intention is to push people on the left to violence. I see what you are doing. Right, Agent 007.

Typical right winger, thinks he has a monopoly on the crazy.

 

[Moonbeam]

Men are doing as badly in life as whites are doing with college admissions to Ivy league schools. Men are doing so badly that almost all the billionaires, CEOs, political leaders, highest paid movie stars, top doctors (chiefs of staff. For example something like 80% of ob gyn chiefs of staff are male in a field where 70% of the doctors are female), military leaders etc are male. I'm a man and know my sex is definitely giving me a leg up.

All I know is that if some of a kind have it good then it can't be true that others of that kind can't be having it bad. Simple logic right? And besides there were statistics quoted in the OP that rate the number of suicides men vs women that obviously can't be factual, right?

 

[MrSquished]

All I know is that if some of a kind have it good then it can't be true that others of that kind can't be having it bad. Simple logic right? And besides there were statistics quoted in the OP that rate the number of suicides men vs women that obviously can't be factual, right?

One of the main reasons suicides in men are much higher is because of the method used. Men are far more likely to own guns and thus use them during an attempt. Suicide by gun is far more successful than other methods, which is what women mostly do. In fact women talk and attempt suicide more often, it's the method used that changes that stat you are using without going into context.

Gender Paradox of Suicide: Relationship Between Gender & Suicide

The traditional gender paradox of suicide is simple: Men die by suicide more often, but women report thoughts of suicide more than men. Learn more here

cams-care.com

The traditional gender paradox of suicide is simple: Men die by suicide more often than women, even though women report thoughts of suicide more often and make more non-fatal suicide attempts than men. In fact, the data from research on the subject is quite striking.

CDC data demonstrates that men account for over 76% of suicide deaths in the United States each year. The CDC also found that there are 3.3 male suicide deaths for every female suicide death. In contrast, in research studies, women are two to three times more likely to discuss thoughts of suicide than men, and there are approximately three female suicide attempts per every one male suicide attempt.

Although rates of suicide are different across age groups (e.g., middle-age and older adults die by suicide more than younger adults) and race/ethnicity (e.g., non-Hispanic White and Indigenous individuals die by suicide more than people of Hispanic ethnicity and/or Black racial identity), the gender paradox remains true across other demographics.

These data points demonstrate a simple truth: men die by suicide far more than women, but women experience thoughts of suicide and attempt suicide more than men. So why does this gender disparity persist when it comes to suicidal thoughts vs suicidal behavior?

Why Do More Men Commit Suicide Than Women?
Certainly, answering this question would provide meaningful information on the broad nature of suicide. However, the findings from this line of research are far more complicated than the paradox itself.

One potential reason that men die more by suicide than women is that men, compared to women, appear to be more fearless of death and able to tolerate more physical pain. As such, they may have a higher capability of a lethal suicide attempt if thoughts of suicide develop. This understanding is fairly intuitive. If people do not fear death and can feel confident they can tolerate the pain associated with suicide, they may be more likely to follow through on a plan to die by suicide. This concept is a central component of the Interpersonal Theory of Suicide, which provides clear hypotheses about how the desire and capability for suicide develops and has been researched for almost 15 years.

This fearlessness of death and tolerance of pain may also explain one key finding within the gender paradox of suicide. Compared to women, men generally use more violent methods for suicide, such as suicide by firearm. For example, approximately 60% of male suicides are by firearm, whereas just over 30% of female suicides include self-inflicted gun violence. This finding is important, since suicide attempts by firearm result in death in nearly 90% of cases. With other suicide methods such as overdose, suffocation/hanging, and self-piercing/burning, death is the result in less than 10% of these cases.

 

[Pohemi]

We’ll in that regard you either have to work very hard to be the idiot you appear to be or it comes naturally. In either case you clearly can’t help but struggle to maintain the absurd ego identifications you have imagined as giving you sacred dignity. Better to appear to be a fool than to recognize you have elevated insignificance to to self importance erroneously. Not to worry. Had you not had that capacity to hide your inner pain from yourself and others as a child you would not have survived. Hats off to the ego that allowed you to survive.

But you might show a bit of respect to conservatives who, with respect to alternative reality creation, have it, even, all over you.

More bloviated pontification...shocker. And wtf does your last sentence even mean?? Do you engrish?

 

[darkswordsman17]

Men are doing as badly in life as whites are doing with college admissions to Ivy league schools. Men are doing so badly that almost all the billionaires, CEOs, political leaders, highest paid movie stars, top doctors (chiefs of staff. For example something like 80% of ob gyn chiefs of staff are male in a field where 70% of the doctors are female), military leaders etc are male. I'm a man and know my sex is definitely giving me a leg up.

How dare you persecute us! This is the worst kind of discrimination, the kind against me!

 

[Moonbeam]

One of the main reasons suicides in men are much higher is because of the method used. Men are far more likely to own guns and thus use them during an attempt. Suicide by gun is far more successful than other methods, which is what women mostly do.

I have no problem with this kind of post. It addresses an objection to what I have posted rationally.

An alternative interpretation might be that men having it worse than women of feeling the have been made useless by society, are more determined to die than women. Note also that whereas there are three times the actual suicides among men, that does not track proportionally with the fact that men are only twice as likely to use guns than women. That can't explain everything unless women botch suicide by gum to make up the difference.

None of this, however, in my opinion makes it any less likely that we should spend more time and thought into ending the misery so many men and women are feeling that is driving these horrible statistics

The whole effort of the author in the OP apparently was to deal with the topic in a manner that does not lead to division along party or gender lines. He gave facts, described causes and assigned no blame. His appeal was to reason, I think.

 

[Moonbeam]

More bloviated pontification...shocker. And wtf does your last sentence even mean?? Do you engrish?

What it means is that despite your wildly distorted view of reality you suck at it, imaginatively, compared to conservatives. Try throwing in lizard people somewhere next time.

 

[Moonbeam]

How dare you persecute us! This is the worst kind of discrimination, the kind against me!

Please please stop persecuting me here. Can't you see I'm a victim. You are destroying me with your withering criticisms. How cruel can you be? I'm sorry I hurt your tender feelings and made you feel so bad. I was so insensitive. I understand why you feel a need to get even. I was very bad and you have every right to cry like a baby. You poor poor dear.

 

[Maxima1]

One of the main reasons suicides in men are much higher is because of the method used. Men are far more likely to own guns and thus use them during an attempt. Suicide by gun is far more successful than other methods, which is what women mostly do. In fact women talk and attempt suicide more often, it's the method used that changes that stat you are using without going into context.

Not really convincing, since the ratio of firearm deaths for men is significantly higher that women, yet in the UK where there is much less access, the ratio of male to female suicide is still similar: about 3 UK vs. 3.5 US.

Men are doing as badly in life as whites are doing with college admissions to Ivy league schools. Men are doing so badly that almost all the billionaires, CEOs, political leaders, highest paid movie stars, top doctors (chiefs of staff. For example something like 80% of ob gyn chiefs of staff are male in a field where 70% of the doctors are female), military leaders etc are male. I'm a man and know my sex is definitely giving me a leg up.

A lot of CRNAs are men, yet most nurses are women. Whose fault is it that the women didn't do the additional nursing schooling? Whose fault is it when an investment banker woman settles down with a high SES man or when a pharmacist decides to work part-time?

 

[MrSquished]

Not really convincing, since the ratio of firearm deaths for men is significantly higher that women, yet in the UK where there is much less access, the ratio of male to female suicide is still similar: about 3 UK vs. 3.5 US.



A lot of CRNAs are men, yet most nurses are women. Whose fault is it that the women didn't do the additional nursing schooling? Whose fault is it when an investment banker woman settles down with a high SES man or when a pharmacist decides to work part-time?

So facts aren't convincing in the US, where the OP is talking about, because you don't like them because, UK?

That's fascinating. Never met a fact you didn't like eh?

Par for the course for a resident racist and bigot and misogynist.

 

[Maxima1]

How are those not connected? Being paid less in just about every industry doesn't count as, "getting screwed more than men"? So you just wanted to say Dank was wrong, and then agree with him in the next sentence?

Only about 1-3% of the gap is unexplained differences (from Pew) that could be attributed to discrimination. The rest is explained by job segregation (who would thunk the manual labor stuff that nobody wants pays more?), work experience, etc..

Declining earning capacity has nothing to do with being a man. That has to do with a general trend towards growing wealth inequality and devaluation of labor by the ownership and wealthy class. I find it sad you are conflating that with gender. That is a kindergarten level mistake of logic. In fact this is typical GQP agitprop. You take an issue that is caused by the top 1% and the power structure, almost all white men - and then you blame that on something else, like you are here, on just being men. Thus they turn an economic trend that benefits them into something that riles up the have nots but not based in any reality. And you are just carrying their water.

This is worldwide. They've always done better in education.

So facts aren't convincing in the US, where the OP is talking about, because you don't like them because, UK?

That's fascinating. Never met a fact you didn't like eh?

Par for the course for a resident racist and bigot and misogynist.

I think an obvious reason why the ratios are similar is because you are overstating the gun completion rate relative to other methods.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...tative-study/EB259F432B70A1B4C71E1B842CC13347

Hanging is the most frequently used method of suicide in the UK and has high case fatality (>70%).

 

[MrSquished]

Only about 1-3% of the gap is unexplained differences (from Pew) that could be attributed to discrimination. The rest is explained by job segregation (who would thunk the manual labor stuff that nobody wants pays more?), work experience, etc..



This is worldwide. They've always done better in education.



I think an obvious reason why the ratios are similar is because you are overstating the gun completion rate relative to other methods.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...tative-study/EB259F432B70A1B4C71E1B842CC13347

Hanging is the most frequently used method of suicide in the UK and has high case fatality (>70%).

So again you are looking to the UK to dismiss statistical facts in the US.

Why are you so dishonest?

 

[Maxima1]

So again you are looking to the UK to dismiss statistical facts in the US.

Why are you so dishonest?

lol How is this dishonest? Take away the guns and you don't think this will happen here?

A striking feature of recent suicide trends in England has been a marked increase in suicide by hanging. It is now the most common single method of suicide, accounting for about 2000 deaths per year. Reference Brock and Griffiths1 This trend is most apparent among men but in the past few years, hanging has also eclipsed self-poisoning as the most common method used by women aged 15–34 years. Reference Biddle, Brock, Brookes and Gunnell2 Similar trends, particularly among young men, have been reported internationally. Reference Wilkinson and Gunnell3,Reference Beautrais4 This increase is of concern for two reasons. First, hanging is a lethal method with an estimated fatality rate of over 70%. Reference Gunnell, Bennewith, Hawton, Simkin and Kapur5 Second, hanging poses a challenge to current suicide prevention strategies, which place emphasis on restricting access to commonly used methods such as reducing paracetamol pack size and safety measures at regular jumping sites. 6,Reference Taylor, Kingdom and Jenkins7 A review of 162 completed hangings found that the majority occurred in private households, and in 90% of cases the ligatures and ligature points used were everyday items. Reference Bennewith, Gunnell, Kapur, Turnball, Simkin and Sutton8 Restricting access may thus only be possible for the minority of cases (approximately 10%) occurring within institutional settings. Reference Gunnell, Bennewith, Hawton, Simkin and Kapur5

 

[dank69]

I don’t see this issue as having anything to do with genes. People who once thrived in the rust belt didn’t have their lives turned upside down because they had inferior genes. They had their source of livelihood and their value as people taken from them.

...

This, uh...none of this is right. I say that as someone who believes capitalism needs some serious adjustments.

 

[MrSquished]

lol How is this dishonest? Take away the guns and you don't think this will happen here?

A striking feature of recent suicide trends in England has been a marked increase in suicide by hanging. It is now the most common single method of suicide, accounting for about 2000 deaths per year. Reference Brock and Griffiths1 This trend is most apparent among men but in the past few years, hanging has also eclipsed self-poisoning as the most common method used by women aged 15–34 years. Reference Biddle, Brock, Brookes and Gunnell2 Similar trends, particularly among young men, have been reported internationally. Reference Wilkinson and Gunnell3,Reference Beautrais4 This increase is of concern for two reasons. First, hanging is a lethal method with an estimated fatality rate of over 70%. Reference Gunnell, Bennewith, Hawton, Simkin and Kapur5 Second, hanging poses a challenge to current suicide prevention strategies, which place emphasis on restricting access to commonly used methods such as reducing paracetamol pack size and safety measures at regular jumping sites. 6,Reference Taylor, Kingdom and Jenkins7 A review of 162 completed hangings found that the majority occurred in private households, and in 90% of cases the ligatures and ligature points used were everyday items. Reference Bennewith, Gunnell, Kapur, Turnball, Simkin and Sutton8 Restricting access may thus only be possible for the minority of cases (approximately 10%) occurring within institutional settings. Reference Gunnell, Bennewith, Hawton, Simkin and Kapur5

Of course it matters. Does everything in the UK happen exactly as it does in the US and vice versa? No.

Secondly, if you want to use the UK, the same thing holds true in the UK as in the US at least in terms of suicide attempts, women attempt it more. They do just avoid the most immediately painful methods as well there, as the US article states. Hanging is one of the most immediately painful methods. As my link states, women attempt it in less 'drastic' ways that seem less painful - like say OD'ing which sounds like a more peaceful way to go from a layperson's POV. Ultimately women are suicidal more and attempt more, they just approach it differently.

So suicidal tendencies are actually higher among women in the UK as well, if you want to stay onboard the US/UK thing. They are either less gun fetishists than men, in the US, and in general, the US and UK, avoid the most immediately painful way to suicide, hanging.

https://media.samaritans.org/documents/ResearchBriefingGenderSuicide_2021_v7.pdf

"Men in the UK and the Republic of Ireland are significantly more likely than women to take their own lives – a trend that has persisted for decades (ONS, 2020; CSO, 2020). This is despite the fact that they are less likely, compared to women, to experience suicidal thoughts and to attempt suicide (Canetto & Sakinofsky, 1998; McManus et al., 2016)."

So if you guys are trying to prove that men have it worse, you are fucked no matter which country you use as an example.

Also that article you linked up used 12 men and 10 women as its entire data point in total. That's pretty pathetic.

from your link:

Method
Semi-structured interviews were conducted with 22 individuals who had made near-fatal suicide attempts. Individuals who had attempted to die by hanging were the primary group of interest but individuals using other methods were also recruited to provide comparative data. Ethical approval was granted by Central and South Bristol Research Ethics Committee"

 

[akugami]

Man. Half the posts in this thread is Moonbeam in his own little world, all while ignoring people slapping him in the face with facts. Because to a conservative, the only facts that are real, are the ones they want to believe in.

 

[Pohemi]

Man. Half the posts in this thread is Moonbeam in his own little world, all while ignoring people slapping him in the face with facts. Because to a conservative, the only facts that are real, are the ones they want to believe in.

I don't even see him as a conservative, despite all the bothsides. He's just a rambling idiot pretending to be level-headed, wise, and mysterious.

What it means is that despite your wildly distorted view of reality you suck at it, imaginatively, compared to conservatives. Try throwing in lizard people somewhere next time.

Holy fucking shit. You have less self-awareness and more projection than Taj. Seriously, get some help.

Insane people often think everyone else around them has gone crazy. They don't realize it's them, and are highly resistant to being told so (or being helped). Ring any bells?

 

[Moonbeam]

This, uh...none of this is right. I say that as someone who believes capitalism needs some serious adjustments.

Why do you think it's not right? I know very well you believe capitalism doesn't work without regulation same as me. Are you on board with the idea that the suffering that blue collar workers have experienced to their self respect since the late seventies is due to some genetic defect?

 

[Moonbeam]

I don't even see him as a conservative, despite all the bothsides. He's just a rambling idiot pretending to be level-headed, wise, and mysterious.

Holy fucking shit. You have less self-awareness and more projection than Taj. Seriously, get some help.

Insane people often think everyone else around them has gone crazy. They don't realize it's them, and are highly resistant to being told so (or being helped). Ring any bells?

Ring any bells? Jesus, you are funny.

 

[Moonbeam]

Man. Half the posts in this thread is Moonbeam in his own little world, all while ignoring people slapping him in the face with facts. Because to a conservative, the only facts that are real, are the ones they want to believe in.

You, of course, don't believe a word you just said. You are certainly entitled to your imaginary reality but there is nothing you can do to prove it real.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Man. Half the posts in this thread is Moonbeam in his own little world, all while ignoring people slapping him in the face with facts. Because to a conservative, the only facts that are real, are the ones they want to believe in.

almost as if moonbeam became what he feared 😉

 

[darkswordsman17]

almost as if moonbeam became what he feared 😉

Just more of the usual broken brain Conservativism, project project project. He is what he demonizes. And yet, instead of recognizing that, him, and all the other RWNJ like him, instead view that as validating themselves. Its all the rest of the world that has broken brains, not him, despite him regularly shitting all over his own points, often in the exact post where he made them.

Man. Half the posts in this thread is Moonbeam in his own little world, all while ignoring people slapping him in the face with facts. Because to a conservative, the only facts that are real, are the ones they want to believe in.

Well that is like 98% of Moonbeam posts, so was anyone surprised?