A reason to boycott Razer

[Craig234]

Razer is practising what I see as misleading marketing for one of their mice.

The Krait mouse is marketed primarily - the first point on their web site and the only bold one, parroted in most if not all discussions of the product - as 'optimized for RTS/MMORPG'.

How, exactly, you might wonder, can a mouse be optimized for an MMORPG? It doesn't seem they know, either - there's no explanation.

Admirably, their company web contact is answered by the president. Not admirably, he's an apologist for the problem.

The entire basis for the claim is about a term 'APM' - actions per minute, which he claims they've patented a way to get up to 1,200.

However, in discussions I've seen - the term seems little known in the US but widely used in Asia - the practical use for "APM"'s appears to be in the low hundreds with macroing.

So, in RTS games where APM's are relevant, it appears that the addition capacity is of little if any use, and in MMORPG's, even less.

So, the tagline seems to me to be simply their marketing group deciding that for all the mice which legitimately compete for the shooter market, why not tap into the other major markets, RTS and MMORPG, where no mouse maker is targetting - big cash cows to grab with the tagline, and sme buyers who will select the mouse 'optimized' for their genres.

I think this sort of deceipt is a very bad thing, and Razer's president simply defended it in denial, even after I sent him a product review making the same arguments.

The product gets good reviews otherwise, and I'm sympathetic to the 'justification' he sent me that it's a competitive marketplace, but it seems to me he's not listening to anything but the sales. So, the only way to oppose such deceitful marketing is to get his attention with reduced sales.

For that reason, I'm suggesting the consideration of a boycott of Razer until they fix this.

As I do boycotts with some care, I'm open to counter arguments against the boycott.

 

[Ika]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Razer is practising what I see as misleading marketing for one of their mice.

The Krait mouse is marketed primarily - the first point on their web site and the only bold one, parroted in most if not all discussions of the product - as 'optimized for RTS/MMORPG'.

How, exactly, you might wonder, can a mouse be optimized for an MMORPG? It doesn't seem they know, either - there's no explanation.

Admirably, their company web contact is answered by the president. Not admirably, he's an apologist for the problem.

The entire basis for the claim is about a term 'APM' - actions per minute, which he claims they've patented a way to get up to 1,200.

However, in discussions I've seen - the term seems little known in the US but widely used in Asia - the practical use for "APM"'s appears to be in the low hundreds with macroing.

So, in RTS games where APM's are relevant, it appears that the addition capacity is of little if any use, and in MMORPG's, even less.

So, the tagline seems to me to be simply their marketing group deciding that for all the mice which legitimately compete for the shooter market, why not tap into the other major markets, RTS and MMORPG, where no mouse maker is targetting - big cash cows to grab with the tagline, and sme buyers who will select the mouse 'optimized' for their genres.

I think this sort of deceipt is a very bad thing, and Razer's president simply defended it in denial, even after I sent him a product review making the same arguments.

The product gets good reviews otherwise, and I'm sympathetic to the 'justification' he sent me that it's a competitive marketplace, but it seems to me he's not listening to anything but the sales. So, the only way to oppose such deceitful marketing is to get his attention with reduced sales.

For that reason, I'm suggesting the consideration of a boycott of Razer until they fix this.

As I do boycotts with some care, I'm open to counter arguments against the boycott.

... you're boycotting because they say its good for RTS/MMORPG? ...

anyway, APM was a very popular topic when starcraft was all the rage (as was slayer[boxer]). basically, the faster your APM was, the higher your starcraft skill was assumed to be. basically, Razer is using a popular misconception to market its product.

 

[Kakumba]

sooo, whats your point here? man, if you were to boycott every company for something THAT minor, you would be naked living on the street, because you would refuse to buy ANYTHING.

Razer FTW.

 

[wpeng]

The bottom line is that the mouse does not make the gamer. Buy it because it's more comfortable/more convenient/looks cooler. Don't buy it to improve your gaming performance.

 

[Trippytiger]

So... you think we should boycott Razer because their mouse performs as advertised? I'm sorry, but no. That's like saying we should boycott General Motors because the Corvette is capable of reaching speeds that the average driver can't legally reach. It's absurd. Likewise, just because the average person can't make 1200 actions per minute doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with Razer making mouse that can handle 1200 APM's or advertising its capabilities.

 

[shortylickens]

I have two Razer mice and they work great.

Why should I boycott them? Because you dont like their ads?
Well then in that case I dont think Apple should be selling any of their products.
Their ads are all lies and hype anyway.

And they are a heck of a lot smoother than the logitech and microsoft mice I've owned over the years.
I cant prove they make me a better player, but it is kind of nice to have the cross hairs go where I want and survive a level, instead of dying and reloading every 60 seconds.
(This is especially irritating in Far Cry with no saves and infrequent checkpoints.)

 

[Craig234]

Well, here's a chance to clear up some misconceptions from some:

"So... you think we should boycott Razer because their mouse performs as advertised?"

Of course not. I'm suggesting boycotting Razer for advertising hype that it does NOT deliver.

It claims the mouse is "optimized for RTS and MMORPG", but this is a false claim to trick RTS and MMORPG players into buying it as if it's better than other mice for those genres by having some sort of design that is spefically for improving gameplay in RTS and MMORPG games, when, while it has many other strengths as a good general mouse, it is not "optimized for RTS and MMORPG" in any way that improves gameplay specific for those genres. I asked them to market the mouse on its real strengths, to just say it's "good for RTS and MMORPG" for its other strenghts, and the president refuses to change the ads to be honest.

"That's like saying we should boycott General Motors because the Corvette is capable of reaching speeds that the average driver can't legally reach. "

No, it's not like that, because they if they just advertised the 1200 APM, that'd be fine.

Instead, it's as if GM advertised the Corvette as 'optimized to let you fly by traffic limited to 55mph to slash your commute time'.

That would be dishonest, because the corvette is designed to do no such thing.

"Likewise, just because the average person can't make 1200 actions per minute"

You need to stop misrepresenting the facts. It's not that the "average person" makes less than 1200 APM. The info I've seen is that *no one* can do more than a small fraction of that. If there were some great players who actually got the benefit implied, that'd be one thing, but as I understand it, that's not the case. And as I said, I invite disagreement - when it's backed up. Show me evidence of players benefitting from 1,000 APM and I'll withdraw the RTS issue (MMORPG remains nonsense). But you haven't.

"doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with Razer making mouse that can handle 1200 APM's or advertising its capabilities."

One more time: it's not about advertising the capabilities. However, the 1200 APM isn't even linked by them to explain the 'optimized' claim; it just sits out there unsupported in their marketing. It was only because of an e-mail from their president that the connection was even identified. It's about their false hype for players of RTS and MMORPG that the mouse is optimized for those genres and will improve their game, when it's not, other than any other generic mouse design issues such as a nice feel or shape.

They need to advertise the true mouse benefits, not lies and hype. If you are happy to be lied to, then buy their products and don't put any preessure on them to be honest.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Well, here's a chance to clear up some misconceptions from some:

"So... you think we should boycott Razer because their mouse performs as advertised?"

Of course not. I'm suggesting boycotting Razer for advertising hype that it does NOT deliver.

It claims the mouse is "optimized for RTS and MMORPG", but this is a false claim to trick RTS and MMORPG players into buying it as if it's better than other mice for those genres by having some sort of design that is spefically for improving gameplay in RTS and MMORPG games, when, while it has many other strengths as a good general mouse, it is not "optimized for RTS and MMORPG" in any way that improves gameplay specific for those genres. I asked them to market the mouse on its real strengths, to just say it's "good for RTS and MMORPG" for its other strenghts, and the president refuses to change the ads to be honest.

"That's like saying we should boycott General Motors because the Corvette is capable of reaching speeds that the average driver can't legally reach. "

No, it's not like that, because they if they just advertised the 1200 APM, that'd be fine.

Instead, it's as if GM advertised the Corvette as 'optimized to let you fly by traffic limited to 55mph to slash your commute time'.

That would be dishonest, because the corvette is designed to do no such thing.

"Likewise, just because the average person can't make 1200 actions per minute"

You need to stop misrepresenting the facts. It's not that the "average person" makes less than 1200 APM. The info I've seen is that *no one* can do more than a small fraction of that. If there were some great players who actually got the benefit implied, that'd be one thing, but as I understand it, that's not the case. And as I said, I invite disagreement - when it's backed up. Show me evidence of players benefitting from 1,000 APM and I'll withdraw the RTS issue (MMORPG remains nonsense). But you haven't.

"doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with Razer making mouse that can handle 1200 APM's or advertising its capabilities."

One more time: it's not about advertising the capabilities. However, the 1200 APM isn't even linked by them to explain the 'optimized' claim; it just sits out there unsupported in their marketing. It was only because of an e-mail from their president that the connection was even identified. It's about their false hype for players of RTS and MMORPG that the mouse is optimized for those genres and will improve their game, when it's not, other than any other generic mouse design issues such as a nice feel or shape.

They need to advertise the true mouse benefits, not lies and hype. If you are happy to be lied to, then buy their products and don't put any preessure on them to be honest.

Wow, you need to see some marketing that's out there because apparently you haven't. BOSE, Monster, AMD, Intel, Alienware, Creative, ATi, NVIDIA, Sony, Samsung, Belkin....the list would go on of companies you need to boycott if you are so offended that they claim they have a mouse optimized for RTS use.

Stop troubling yourself over such a small issue.

 

[Howard]

Jesus Christ, what kind of clothing and shoes do you wear?

 

[Kakumba]

actually, to some extent, this IS optimized for those uses. at least, its more optimised than an old school mouse with a ball. so, shut up. its just normal mareketing, in fact, its better than most companies marketing.

 

[Craig234]

Well, to each our opinion. Some people buy into being powerless and just accept lies.

Purdue, I don't know whether it's more notable how selective you are with your 'vp of anti-suv' signature while going out of your way to post in defense of lying, or whether it's more useful to answer your post, which seems to suggest that if you can't solve every marketing lie with one boycott, then it's not worth battling any. Defeatist attitude, IMO.

You're welcome to post your specific issues with those other companies if you feel strongly enough about them in your own thread. You don't, obviously, so why are you so bored that you spend your time in a thread not of interest to you? You are welcome to your opinion, but you make no rebuttal of any meaning on the issue, you just snipe without a message.

Howard, off-topic. There are many issues; this thread is about one specific issues, dealing with a computer peripheral's misleading marketing, not clothing.

Kakumba, it's absurd to say that the issue is comparing the device to a ball-based mouse. The improvements from ball to optical or laser are *not* RTS or MMORPG specific.

Again, this is a deceitful campaign to try to appeal to the millions of RTS and MMORPG gamers without any basis.

The mouse is good for those genres just as a generic mouse; the claim that it's specifically 'optimized' for those genres over others is phony.

There are some devices which can make those claims with some substance, such as the G15 keyboard. The mouse is not one.

It's not just me who feels this way, I found; I ran across a review of the Krait which higly praised it as a mouse, but trashed its marketing as 'the most overhyped ever'.

http://www.short-media.com/review.php?r=314

Excerpt from the review:

"The claims that are made on the box of this mouse have got to be some of the most over-the-top I've ever seen."

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Purdue, I don't know whether it's more notable how selective you are with your 'vp of anti-suv' signature while going out of your way to post in defense of lying, or whether it's more useful to answer your post, which seems to suggest that if you can't solve every marketing lie with one boycott, then it's not worth battling any. Defeatist attitude, IMO.

The reason I don't like SUV's is not because of their marketing. It is how people tend to drive in them and the reason people buy them. That has nothing to do with me saying "OMG teh car companies r trying to market them by saying they are teh best!!!!11!"

Lets see, why would I not boycott over this?

#1. I am smart enough to know that mice are not optimized for RTS and MMORPG games

#2. I don't pay too much attention to that kind of marketing.

#3. I research

#4. I don't think its worth my time.

So, I suggest you boycott some of the following:

1. Car companies - Don't buy any cars because many manufacturers have listed unrealistic HP and fuel mileage.

2. High end cable manufacturers - Don't buy any fancier cables because they falsely claim drastically superior picture quality and audio fidelity.

3. TV manufacturers - Most all manufacturers ship TV's with overly bright settings on purpose to lead you to believe their picture is better.

4. Voting - Don't ever vote for anyone as many politicians make false claims about what they will do in office.

5. Any computer hardware company - Don't buy computer hardware because each company tried to make its product look the best. Creative advertised somewhere a 40% increase in performance with its sound cards for instance.

6. Food - Please, don't eat, because on the box their are often claims of "The best" or "lose 10 pounds in 4 weeks!". Because these are often false claims you should boycott food products.

Now, if you want to boycott razer because they may have made some shakey claims on their packaging then I suggest you boycott most any product because it obviously bothers you quite a bit.

Good luck with that.

 

[us3rnotfound]

http://www.razerzone.com/Products/Gaming-Keyboards/Razer-Tarantula/

Technical Specifications
Anti-Ghosting capability to prevent key jamming when multiple keys are simultaneously pressed.

Optimized Hyperesponse? Gaming Keytop for reduced key latency and maximum response

Gold plated USB connector for maximum conductivity

lol, who gets paid to type these specs?

 

[Kakumba]

ok, THAT is hyped up marketing.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: wpeng
The bottom line is that the mouse does not make the gamer. Buy it because it's more comfortable/more convenient/looks cooler. Don't buy it to improve your gaming performance.

Razers are usually less comfortable (at least IMHO) compared to Logitechs, this is because they're more finger oriented and less palm. However this tends to force a lighter touch on the mouse and generally more control because the grip isn't as lazy.

I'll agree that the mouse isn't going to vastly improve your performance, however it defintely is a luxury to have even the slightest advantages.

 

[alcoholbob]

This isn't a whole lot different from marketting that's been seen in sound cards either. When the entire market is based on incremental gains, you do need some oomph from the marketting department to differentiate yourself.

 

[QueBert]

Google reviews of Razer products, sure the marketing is hyped up. But, unlike a BOSE, who is almost all hype. Razer makes solid ass products. You rarely see a bad review of any of their mice. I myself noticed a decent improvement in my gaming when I went from my Logitech Bluetooth (mx900?) to a Diamondback. It didn't make me a fatal1ty, but any lil bit helps I'll buy the Razer keyboard if it's as good as it looks. As far as their sound card, if the drivers are solid I will gladly throw my Audigy 2 in the trash.

 

[Kakumba]

Using a Copperhead right now. It really is a lot nice to game with than any other mouse I have used.

 

[Craig234]

"...Razer products, sure the marketing is hyped up. But, unlike a BOSE, who is almost all hype. Razer makes solid ass products."

Razer's wrongs have nothing to do with BOSE or any other company. You can't ever get anything fixed if you say that anyone doing anything else wrong is an excuse.

'Sorry, we can't arrest that guy for shoplifting a $100 item, because someone else shoplifted a $150 item the week before.' Makes a tone of sense.

I'm not planning to discuss "but someone else did something!" arguments, because they're irrelevant as I said, but I'll mention for one that BOSE hype is not the same.

'Fluff' is very common, and that's what BOSE does. It's not exactly factually wrong; it's subjective claims.

If that's all that Razer did I would not raise an issue. But they cross the line to more.

They tell millions of gamers of MMORPG and RTS games that the product is 'optimized' for those games specifically, but the facts are different. That's a factual issue.

I don't see Microsoft Mice, Logitech Mice, or any other brand of mice doing this. They'll brag about features and use subjective adjectives, but they don't cross that line.

If you want to lay down like a rug and accept the dishonest ads, then you are helping to cause them. That's your choice, but I think it's a waste of your consumer power.

I think it's better to pressure them to fix the marketing.

 

[Kakumba]

Now that you have posted a clear, concise post with well put opinions, I can see your point.

I am not, however, going to boycott Razer because, to me, their mice (Copperhead to be precise) are the best. Hence, that is what I buy. I *almost* opted for a G5, but the Copperhead wins my cash.

 

[Running]

i have a diamondback right now. its a pretty decent mouse just so uncomfy. went form a mx510 to it. big mistake haha. i love that sculpted hand grip that logitechs have. the razer isn't bad but i don' t think its as good as all the reviews say it is.

 

[Kakumba]

Yeah, not everyone likes that shape. apart from shape, how does ,say, a G5 compare to it? both being laser, would you really be able to tell a difference?