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A quick note on politics and the Corona epidemic....

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,381
3,172
126
The liberal approach using what we glean from science and reason saves lives and the conservative approach that the cure can’t be worse than the disease based on an attempt to look macho kills people. The insane rejection of science because fools can’t deal with the fear such data actually causes them to feel, creates their own deaths as a result. We create what we fear and conservatives are full of it. Hard for tough guys to see their own cowardly stupidity.

The real problem, though, is that you don’t have to be afraid yourself to suffer from it. The virus kills regardless of party.

It takes a profound inability to feel shame to be proud to be a member of a death cult. Trump says to us all, ‘be brave and drink your cup of virus. It will make you a man.’
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
16,484
2,061
126
Or it's easy to have an evolutionary point of view when your not sick.
I think about this every time I forget to wear my mask at work, which is all to often. It's very easy to be focused on what your doing rather than what you should be doing. And this after going through a bout of something with a cough so bad codeine couldn't control it. At one point I actually thought my throat was bleeding I coughed so hard.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
59,816
12,215
136
The liberal approach using what we glean from science and reason saves lives and the conservative approach that the cure can’t be worse than the disease based on an attempt to look macho kills people. The insane rejection of science because fools can’t deal with the fear such data actually causes them to feel, creates their own deaths as a result. We create what we fear and conservatives are full of it. Hard for tough guys to see their own cowardly stupidity.

The real problem, though, is that you don’t have to be afraid yourself to suffer from it. The virus kills regardless of party.

It takes a profound inability to feel shame to be proud to be a member of a death cult. Trump says to us all, ‘be brave and drink your cup of virus. It will make you a man.’
We're the chorus and we agree, we agree, we agree.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,327
2,851
126
The insane rejection of science because fools can’t deal with the fear such data actually causes them to feel...
I suppose you could take us on a journey... where the destination circles the globe and somehow arrives at that destination.... but I do not think their rejection of science has any depth to it like that. It is group-think derived from propagandists who trained their lemmings to follow corporate profits - thus an anti science movement. Derived from a shallow and pathetic incumbency - thus a dogmatic rejection of anything that can harm Dear Leader. Make no mistake, if Barrack Obama was President they'd be screaming he didn't do enough. It is about feels alright. But a rather straight forward ID and Ego trip. Same one that plagues all things American these days.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
16,484
2,061
126
I suppose you could take us on a journey... where the destination circles the globe and somehow arrives at that destination.... but I do not think their rejection of science has any depth to it like that. It is group-think derived from propagandists who trained their lemmings to follow corporate profits - thus an anti science movement. Derived from a shallow and pathetic incumbency - thus a dogmatic rejection of anything that can harm Dear Leader. Make no mistake, if Barrack Obama was President they'd be screaming he didn't do enough. It is about feels alright. But a rather straight forward ID and Ego trip. Same one that plagues all things American these days.
I disagree with the bolded part. At this point it's safe to say that the vast majority of adults in this country understand how the virus is spread, and the risk of infection. It's all on them, and most know it.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
5,250
357
126
Let's see the whataboutism for Biden from the GOP. But yeah complaints how after one week he's sworn in, how come he screwed everything up.
 

Leymenaide

Senior member
Feb 16, 2010
423
47
91
I disagree with the bolded part. At this point it's safe to say that the vast majority of adults in this country understand how the virus is spread, and the risk of infection. It's all on them, and most know it.
I wish I could agree with you. I live in suburban North Carolina. You cannot go into Home Depot with a mask and expect to not be accosted. It is still bad. These people still do not get it.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
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I disagree with the bolded part. At this point it's safe to say that the vast majority of adults in this country understand how the virus is spread, and the risk of infection. It's all on them, and most know it.
Problem is the conservative news went absolutely ape shit about Ebola and even some now silent members of these forums went nuts over how poorly Obama handled it. Fuck Chris Christie didn’t want a medical worker who is a citizen allowed into the country with it.
Corona.....crickets....

Now regarding the President, nobody I know who is of reasonable intelligence expected Corona to be a zero death toll kind of virus. We did expect some sort of plan which to this date the President still does not appear to have other than anything that makes me look good is the plan.
 
Feb 4, 2009
27,477
7,929
136
I wish I could agree with you. I live in suburban North Carolina. You cannot go into Home Depot with a mask and expect to not be accosted. It is still bad. These people still do not get it.
Definitely a regional thing. I can’t remember the last time I saw someone in a large store without a mask.
Gas stations occasionally but that is it.
 

Leymenaide

Senior member
Feb 16, 2010
423
47
91
Definitely a regional thing. I can’t remember the last time I saw someone in a large store without a mask.
Gas stations occasionally but that is it.
My Friends in the north are shocked by the behavior down here. I live on a street of 500K + homes and 90% loudly still love Trump. They are in the FOX bubble. They believe everything they hear on Fox.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
16,484
2,061
126
Problem is the conservative news went absolutely ape shit about Ebola and even some now silent members of these forums went nuts over how poorly Obama handled it. Fuck Chris Christie didn’t want a medical worker who is a citizen allowed into the country with it.
Corona.....crickets....

Now regarding the President, nobody I know who is of reasonable intelligence expected Corona to be a zero death toll kind of virus. We did expect some sort of plan which to this date the President still does not appear to have other than anything that makes me look good is the plan.
Ebola is a totally different thing. Every bit as infectious as covid, with a 70 or 80% death rate. It's the difference between getting shout with a bb gun or a howitzer.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
30,439
9,383
136
Problem is the conservative news went absolutely ape shit about Ebola and even some now silent members of these forums went nuts over how poorly Obama handled it. Fuck Chris Christie didn’t want a medical worker who is a citizen allowed into the country with it.
Corona.....crickets....

Now regarding the President, nobody I know who is of reasonable intelligence expected Corona to be a zero death toll kind of virus. We did expect some sort of plan which to this date the President still does not appear to have other than anything that makes me look good is the plan.
Greenman don't know nuthin about nuthin. Its comical when he tries to pretend he does
 
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Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
60,743
12,689
136
Ebola is a totally different thing. Every bit as infectious as covid, with a 70 or 80% death rate. It's the difference between getting shout with a bb gun or a howitzer.
Not quite. Ebola is spread thru contact with infected body fluids. Covid travels thru the air & is much more contagious because of that.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
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Ebola is a totally different thing. Every bit as infectious as covid, with a 70 or 80% death rate. It's the difference between getting shout with a bb gun or a howitzer.
I agree Ebola is nasty shit.

The result: Ebola was handled well or maybe even perfectly. Amazing how the same people who had such super sized concerns about Ebola are silent regarding Corona.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
12,977
2,509
126
Not quite. Ebola is spread thru contact with infected body fluids. Covid travels thru the air & is much more contagious because of that.
Really what saved us with Ebola is how quickly it acts and how obvious it is when someone has an active case. It is really hard to go to work while bleeding from your pores.

I personally know someone that went directly from getting a positive COVID test to getting her hair done because, and I quote 'Do you know how hard it is to get an appointment at the hair salon right now? If I had told her I couldn't make it I would have to wait at least 2 more weeks to get an appointment'.

Leadership does not take COVID seriously, so neither does those that follow them.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
3,929
1,940
136
Ebola is a totally different thing. Every bit as infectious as covid, with a 70 or 80% death rate. It's the difference between getting shout with a bb gun or a howitzer.
That is total bullshit, but are you proud of your lack of intelligence and complete disconnect from facts. My advise to you is to keep you mouth shut, it will make you seem more intelligent.

For the record:
Ebola is spread by direct contact with blood or other body fluids (such as: vomit, diarrhea, urine, breast milk, sweat, semen) of an infected person who has symptoms of Ebola or who has recently died from Ebola.

Now you are just a tiny bit smarter, or perhaps not...
 
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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
14,241
6,867
146
Ebola is a totally different thing. Every bit as infectious as covid, with a 70 or 80% death rate. It's the difference between getting shout with a bb gun or a howitzer.
Not quite. Ebola is spread thru contact with infected body fluids. Covid travels thru the air & is much more contagious because of that.
Greenman while I agree with you Ebola is much more deadly (something like 1-5% for COVID vs 25%-90% for Ebola depending on strain) It’s not nearly as infectious as COVID as Jhhnn said.

This a chart of R0 values for various past epidemics. R0 represents the average number of people someone will pass the infection on to in a susceptible population without controls.

COVID ends up being anywhere from as infectious as Ebola to 4 times as much.

After a population puts controls on the infections they use the term RE. If RE can be forced below 1 for long enough the epidemic will end.

For Ebola in the US that’s a much easier proposition. Ebola only transmits through contact with bodily fluids of the infected. So getting to RE <1 doesn’t require Herculean efforts

COVID on the other hand is borderline airborne. Hence why it’s R0 can run much higher and forcing RE <1 is so difficult.

Finally because infections increases exponentially vs mortality which is linear, it doesn’t take many more doublings of infections for COVID to kill way more people than Ebola.

Example: assume worst case R0 for both COVID (5.7) & Ebola (2.5)
Assume fatality rate of 90% for Ebola but only 2% for COVID.

After 5 rounds of infections COVID will have infected 6000+ killing ~120 while Ebola will have infected around 100 killing 90.

If I had to be sick I’d rather have COVID. If I was protecting myself from getting sick, I’d rather protect myself from Ebola.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,381
3,172
126
My Friends in the north are shocked by the behavior down here. I live on a street of 500K + homes and 90% loudly still love Trump. They are in the FOX bubble. They believe everything they hear on Fox.
And because of them and Fox News your life and their lives are at greater risk. The only cure I can think of to prevent Republican Party psychological mass manipulation is a liberal education, the very thing the manipulation is designed to prevent. Freedom of speech when used for cunning manipulation is a dangerous thing.
 

alexruiz

Platinum Member
Sep 21, 2001
2,669
275
126
Ebola is a totally different thing. Every bit as infectious as covid, with a 70 or 80% death rate. It's the difference between getting shout with a bb gun or a howitzer.
You do realize that this makes the Obama administration look even better, right?

If Ebola is every bit as infectious as COVID, and much more deadly, why are we having many more deaths caused by the less deadly virus?
Answer: Leadership at the top with response guided by the experts
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,327
2,851
126
Ebola was handled surprisingly well, yes. But being a contact bug made it actually possible to contain. Humans generally don't accept the extreme measures needed to stop an airborne virus.
 
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vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
60,817
4,259
126
Ebola had a scare factor to it. You bloody shit yourself to death. Bled out your eyes. We saw images of villages getting burnt in Africa and mass graves. It had a visceral fear. We see people in an ICU on evening drama shows on TV. We've seen parents/grandparents on a vent or in the ICU. Most people do just end up getting a sniffle or a fever. So we let our guard down.

I do have to ask, if you had a bag of skittles and there were 100 skittles in there, and 3-5 of them could kill you. Would you still eat any from the bag?
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,327
2,851
126
I do have to ask, if you had a bag of skittles and there were 100 skittles in there, and 3-5 of them could kill you. Would you still eat any from the bag?
3-5% is the overall rate, including the massive bias towards seniors.
For young and healthy people it may be as low as 1 out of every 10 bags. As an example.

And while that may seem scary. There is an order of magnitude difference in choosing not to eat skittles VS living your life. The real life factors are far more impactful and that plays a role in risk factor and determining behavior.
 
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vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
60,817
4,259
126
3-5% is the overall rate, including the massive bias towards seniors.
For young and healthy people it may be as low as 1 out of every 10 bags. As an example.

And while that may seem scary. There is an order of magnitude difference in choosing not to eat skittles VS living your life.
The problem is that it's not just *YOUR* life.

We do live in a society and we do have a responsibility to make sure that the 1% low risk aren't actively spreading it to the 3%-5% that are highly vulnerable. But I have little faith in people with zero ability to self reflect to have a selfless thought to protect someone else.
 
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vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
60,817
4,259
126
And the other thing is, we *HAVE* to stop focusing on just deaths. This isn't unique to Covid-19. This also matters in gun violence. It's not just deaths.

I'm almost 7 months removed from getting Covid in March. I *STILL* can't taste or smell much. If I was a chef my career would be done. If I had a job that requires full use of smell or taste my life would be upside down. And I didn't spend a day in a hospital. 10 of thousands HAVE. They spent weeks in a hospital. Not working. Not with their family. Racking up bills. Walking away weaker and less of a human than they were. THERE IS A COST THAT ISN'T JUST LIVES.

Same for gun violence. In the Vegas shooting several years back 61 people died. Another 411 had gunshot wounds. We just look at the 61 and go "well that's awful" while completely ignoring the other 411 that may not walk again, may be shitting into a bag attached outside of their body for the rest of their lives. May be living in chronic and long term pain. The medical bills. The mental trauma of watching that, living with it.

But hey, they're still alive right?

We must look at more than just deaths here.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,327
2,851
126
The problem is that it's not just *YOUR* life.

We do live in a society and we do have a responsibility to make sure that the 1% low risk aren't actively spreading it to the 3%-5% that are highly vulnerable. But I have little faith in people with zero ability to self reflect to have a selfless thought to protect someone else.
The problem is the measures necessary to prevent spread. To actually shut COVID down.

Would our country even exist at the end of such a trial? We have no economic safety net in place to keep us afloat while the economy grinds to a halt and all businesses, which all exist on loans these days, collapse. I posit that America is too sick and fragile to survive such a thing. Not without Basic Income and Housing Loans already secured. Not without healthcare severed from employment.

We are completely insane, and our economy reflects that. The United States is a house of cards that demands growth or death. It cannot halt or pause for anything. People fear the consequences if we attempt such a pause. And they should. Already 30-40 million people face eviction. Such a thing shouldn't even be possible. It should be stopped by force. Yet we march on ahead allowing it to happen.

We do not have our priorities right. We do not have our safety net in place. We cannot avoid this storm. Whether COVID kills people, or our economic dysfunction does. Or some combination of both. We will pay the price for our economic malfeasance.
 
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