A Question of Ethics

Flyback

Golden Member
Sep 20, 2006
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You are in a position to create something that falls under freedom of expression. If you create it, you stand to make massive profit. For argument let us use a number of at least tens of millions.

However, if you create and release it you are guaranteed that people will die. Maybe not intended by you, but they will die nonetheless. A magical, all-knowing Oracle can guarantee that if you release it then 1000 people will die (not intended, promoted or suggested by you in any means outside of the open-to-interpretation "art"). If you choose not to release it then they will not die from the same cause--they could live long lives and be productive members of society.

The examples could be:
- A rap CD (or a music label with many CDs), which, upon release, indirectly creates a rise in gang-on-gang violence due to some lyrics. 1000 people die over a few years.
- A video game that many children, in their stupidity, try to imitate on their own (backyard wrestling, or some such) and they or people they attack die as a result. 1000 people in total are killed because of this.
- A painting that insults Mohamed and causes massive rioting around the world. 1000 people die.

In all cases you could make tens of millions of dollars. You know with certainty, though, that people will die even if it is not your intent. Is it ethical or unethical, given that you are absolutely certain what the outcome will be?

Is it not your fault because people are ultimately responsible for their own actions? Would you produce the item, make the money and shrug off the deaths as the actions of others and there responsibility in entirety?

Also keep in mind that it won't just be the people who had interacted with the artifact, but people who may just be at the wrong place and wrong time (someone get shot in gang crossfire, an angry teen attacks the first student they see, or a bystander going home gets trampled in a riot).

Basically: do you have a responsibility to not release it if you know with certainty that people will die?
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
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If you know with certainty that proper use will result in some people dying, then it's hard to argue in favor of releasing it.

However, things like automobiles, bicycles, and even bathtubs are guaranteed to kill some people sometime because of improper use. The key is that these items are safe when used properly. If a responsible person can use the product without problems, there's no reason not to release it. After all, technically even food is guaranteed, with certainty, to cause death in some cases (choking, allergic reactions, etc). Hell, pennicillin can cause death. My sister is allergic to pennicillin and found out only after being given some, it's a small miracle she lived through that. On the whole though, it's far better that pennicillin was released.

ZV
 

DAGTA

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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You are not responsible for other people's actions. HOWEVER, if you know for certain that releasing it WILL lead to people dying, I feel you would be wrong to release it.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: DAGTA
You are not responsible for other people's actions. HOWEVER, if you know for certain that releasing it WILL lead to people dying, I feel you would be wrong to release it.
How far do you take that though? As I've pointed out, a reasonable person knows for certain that the following things will lead to some people dying:

- Food (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will choke and die)
- Water (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will drown)
- Bathtub (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will drown)
- Shower (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will slip and crack their head)
- Pennicillin (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will be violently allergic)
- Bicycle (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will crash/fall off and die from the injuries)
- Electricity (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will electrocute themself)

Do you see the pattern? Was it wrong to release any of those things?

ZV
 

DAGTA

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
8,172
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Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: DAGTA
You are not responsible for other people's actions. HOWEVER, if you know for certain that releasing it WILL lead to people dying, I feel you would be wrong to release it.
How far do you take that though? As I've pointed out, a reasonable person knows for certain that the following things will lead to some people dying:

- Food (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will choke and die)
- Water (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will drown)
- Bathtub (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will drown)
- Shower (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will slip and crack their head)
- Pennicillin (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will be violently allergic)
- Bicycle (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will crash/fall off and die from the injuries)
- Electricity (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will electrocute themself)

Do you see the pattern? Was it wrong to release any of those things?

ZV


I see the pattern but I feel differently about those things than I do about something like a music CD or movie. Different types of things.

Someone dying from an accident is different than people dying because of violence.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
36
91
Originally posted by: DAGTA
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: DAGTA
You are not responsible for other people's actions. HOWEVER, if you know for certain that releasing it WILL lead to people dying, I feel you would be wrong to release it.
How far do you take that though? As I've pointed out, a reasonable person knows for certain that the following things will lead to some people dying:

- Food (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will choke and die)
- Water (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will drown)
- Bathtub (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will drown)
- Shower (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will slip and crack their head)
- Pennicillin (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will be violently allergic)
- Bicycle (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will crash/fall off and die from the injuries)
- Electricity (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will electrocute themself)

Do you see the pattern? Was it wrong to release any of those things?

ZV
I see the pattern but I feel differently about those things than I do about something like a music CD or movie. Different types of things.

Someone dying from an accident is different than people dying because of violence.
What about the American Revolution then? Would you have advocated a repression of the ideal of Democracy because it required a violent revolution to achieve it?

ZV
 

DAGTA

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
8,172
1
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Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: DAGTA
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: DAGTA
You are not responsible for other people's actions. HOWEVER, if you know for certain that releasing it WILL lead to people dying, I feel you would be wrong to release it.
How far do you take that though? As I've pointed out, a reasonable person knows for certain that the following things will lead to some people dying:

- Food (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will choke and die)
- Water (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will drown)
- Bathtub (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will drown)
- Shower (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will slip and crack their head)
- Pennicillin (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will be violently allergic)
- Bicycle (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will crash/fall off and die from the injuries)
- Electricity (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will electrocute themself)

Do you see the pattern? Was it wrong to release any of those things?

ZV
I see the pattern but I feel differently about those things than I do about something like a music CD or movie. Different types of things.

Someone dying from an accident is different than people dying because of violence.
What about the American Revolution then? Would you have advocated a repression of the ideal of Democracy because it required a violent revolution to achieve it?

ZV

Again... different. A revolution involves people fighting for what they believe is their right to a better life. That's different than killing someone because of some lyrics on a CD.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
36
91
Originally posted by: DAGTA
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: DAGTA
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: DAGTA
You are not responsible for other people's actions. HOWEVER, if you know for certain that releasing it WILL lead to people dying, I feel you would be wrong to release it.
How far do you take that though? As I've pointed out, a reasonable person knows for certain that the following things will lead to some people dying:

- Food (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will choke and die)
- Water (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will drown)
- Bathtub (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will drown)
- Shower (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will slip and crack their head)
- Pennicillin (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will be violently allergic)
- Bicycle (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will crash/fall off and die from the injuries)
- Electricity (guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will electrocute themself)

Do you see the pattern? Was it wrong to release any of those things?

ZV
I see the pattern but I feel differently about those things than I do about something like a music CD or movie. Different types of things.

Someone dying from an accident is different than people dying because of violence.
What about the American Revolution then? Would you have advocated a repression of the ideal of Democracy because it required a violent revolution to achieve it?

ZV
Again... different. A revolution involves people fighting for what they believe is their right to a better life. That's different than killing someone because of some lyrics on a CD.
How is it different?

Democracy existed as words on a page until someone decided to fight for it.

What makes the lyics of a song different? We're obviously not talking about lyrics that are intended to be inciting of a riot as the discussion is about unintentional death. Any controversial idea will hold the certainty that someone, somewhere will die because of it. Whether that controversial idea is "good" or "bad" is irrelevant.

ZV