If an officer of the law pulls you over for something minor, and ask if he/she may search your vehicle, do you have a right to refuse? If you do refuse, what then?
GagHalfrunt
Lifer
- Apr 19, 2001
- 25,284
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Yes, you can refuse. If you do he needs probable cause to do it without permission. It's pretty easy to invent probable cause though, if the cop wants to search he's almost certainly going to find a way to do it.
waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
- 68,143
- 10
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You refusing makes him/her suspicious, and there's your "probable cause". Case closed. It doesn't matter what's supposed to happen or what the laws are.
waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
- 68,143
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mjrpes3
Golden Member
- Oct 2, 2004
- 1,876
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Politely refusing would not hold up as "probable cause" in court. However, there could be rare circumstances where your profile matches with a suspected criminal. Such as you driving a white 98 honda in an area where a crime has just occurred and your car and description match the criminal. Or a minority driving a car in a rich white area, speeding on the freeway, driving downtown, driving in the low income area where they live, etc.
Like I said, it has nothing to do with courts, laws or anything at all. It's up to the officer whether he wants to or not. If he wants to, he will find a way.
There's no sense in babbling on about laws, statutes, fairness, justice and the American way. If they want to do it, they will, and it will be justified.
Don't you people live in the real world?
There's no sense in babbling on about laws, statutes, fairness, justice and the American way. If they want to do it, they will, and it will be justified.
Don't you people live in the real world?
when he asks you out of the car roll the windows up get out and lock the car, he then needs a warrent to get into the car
her209
No Lifer
- Oct 11, 2000
- 56,336
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Yup, cops can say pretty much anything and it will be your word against theirs. For example, he could say, I'm going to have to search your car because your eyes look bloodshot or, your car looks/sounds like it has illegal aftermarket modifications.
You don't get it, IT DOESN'T MATTER.
You might assume I'm a cop hater. It's actually the other way around. I have a few cop friends and it's almost ridiculous the stuff they will talk about with each other.
It's not major stuff, but just things that they shouldn't do, but do anyway because they know there's no way they will get in trouble for it. They stand up for each other, sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes not.
You might assume I'm a cop hater. It's actually the other way around. I have a few cop friends and it's almost ridiculous the stuff they will talk about with each other.
It's not major stuff, but just things that they shouldn't do, but do anyway because they know there's no way they will get in trouble for it. They stand up for each other, sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes not.
BoomerD
No Lifer
- Feb 26, 2006
- 65,124
- 13,409
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http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/article-29742.html
Searches of Cars and Their Occupants
Cars may be searched without a warrant whenever the car has been validly stopped and the police have probable cause to believe the car contains contraband or evidence. If the police have probable cause to search the car, all compartments and packages that may contain the evidence or contraband being searched for are fair game.
While a police officer cannot search a car simply because the car was stopped for a traffic infraction, the police can order the driver and any passengers out of the car for safety considerations, even though there is no suspicion of criminal wrongdoing other than the traffic infraction. The police also can "frisk" the occupants for weapons if the officers have a "reasonable suspicion" that the occupants are involved in criminal activity and are reasonably concerned for their safety.
Searches of Cars and Their Occupants
Cars may be searched without a warrant whenever the car has been validly stopped and the police have probable cause to believe the car contains contraband or evidence. If the police have probable cause to search the car, all compartments and packages that may contain the evidence or contraband being searched for are fair game.
While a police officer cannot search a car simply because the car was stopped for a traffic infraction, the police can order the driver and any passengers out of the car for safety considerations, even though there is no suspicion of criminal wrongdoing other than the traffic infraction. The police also can "frisk" the occupants for weapons if the officers have a "reasonable suspicion" that the occupants are involved in criminal activity and are reasonably concerned for their safety.
Actually, I think you're the one that doesn't get it. Our message is that you have rights if you choose assert them. Even if they "don't work in the real world," they are still your god given rights. Honestly, I'd rather fight an uphill battle than not fight at all.
Your message seems to be you don't have any rights, so why bother trying to assert them? Is that accurate?
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You can try all you want. There's no reason to argue about it, things just don't work that way.
boomhower
Diamond Member
- Sep 13, 2007
- 7,228
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All the cop has to do is articulate why he searched the vehicle. If he is asking to search he likely already has a pretty good reason. You refusing likely will be enough to push it over to probable cause. Of course there will be some who are simply on a fishing expedition and just ask for the sake of it. You would be amazed what people will have in their cars and still let you search it.
But to answer the question, no you don't have to let them. If they find something they have to justify the probable cause in court. If you feel they searched the car without reason, file a cpmplaint. If you don't feel the complaint was taken seriously fole a civil suit.
But to answer the question, no you don't have to let them. If they find something they have to justify the probable cause in court. If you feel they searched the car without reason, file a cpmplaint. If you don't feel the complaint was taken seriously fole a civil suit.
deadlyapp
Diamond Member
- Apr 25, 2004
- 6,634
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It should also be mentioned that there are two "statuses" if you will. Reasonable Suspicion and Probable Cause. Usually they don't have probable cause just by pulling you over, unless as mentioned above, you fit the profile of a crime, but if you act finicky, or suspicious, they can do a cursory search of your passenger cabin. Driver seat, passenger seat, glovebox. If they find something particularly strange, they can escalate to probable cause.
IE: Pulled over traffic stop. Driver seems anxious, off kilt. Officer, under reasonable suspicion is allowed to search the passenger cabin. Finds several shell cases under passenger seat. That now gives him probable cause to search the trunk and the rest of the car if he so wishes.
Don't let cops push you over for no reason. Letting our rights erode just because some spineless bitch thinks the cop will get what they want no matter what and therefore spreads out to get buttfucked, doesn't have to happen. Know your rights against search and use them.
IE: Pulled over traffic stop. Driver seems anxious, off kilt. Officer, under reasonable suspicion is allowed to search the passenger cabin. Finds several shell cases under passenger seat. That now gives him probable cause to search the trunk and the rest of the car if he so wishes.
Don't let cops push you over for no reason. Letting our rights erode just because some spineless bitch thinks the cop will get what they want no matter what and therefore spreads out to get buttfucked, doesn't have to happen. Know your rights against search and use them.
Well obviously there's a common sense element to the cop<->person interaction and plenty of subjective leeway, but like the video stresses, you should take the care NOT to incriminate yourself.
Like not admitting to speeding when you're pulled over is actually something that works in traffic court. Or politely answering the door at the party and not immediately letting them in --- definitely depending on the douchebagginess of the cops they may or may not get in --- but you certainly dont have to bend over backwards and incriminate yourself either.
You're telling me we all have rights, I'm telling you they will be ignored.
I don't like that reality, and I would politely say no to an unreasonable request to search, and I would take it to court if that was ignored.
In the real world, all the officer has to do is say "he was acting suspicious" or "he made a weird hand movement" and it's all over.
For one, if you're innocent (nothing incriminating in the car) and they search it and find nothing, they will send you on your way and you won't do anything about it. If you do something about it, they will say "you were innocent, what's the big deal?". You can scream "My right have been eroded!", but then you're labelled the crackpot and ignored.
If they do find something that will get you into trouble, the court will see that you had a reason to "act suspicious" (even if untrue) and find in favor of the officer.
Of course this excludes cases that may be filed that claim racism, nationality, etc.
I totally agree that being calm and polite is the fastest way to get on your way.
I don't like that reality, and I would politely say no to an unreasonable request to search, and I would take it to court if that was ignored.
In the real world, all the officer has to do is say "he was acting suspicious" or "he made a weird hand movement" and it's all over.
For one, if you're innocent (nothing incriminating in the car) and they search it and find nothing, they will send you on your way and you won't do anything about it. If you do something about it, they will say "you were innocent, what's the big deal?". You can scream "My right have been eroded!", but then you're labelled the crackpot and ignored.
If they do find something that will get you into trouble, the court will see that you had a reason to "act suspicious" (even if untrue) and find in favor of the officer.
Of course this excludes cases that may be filed that claim racism, nationality, etc.
I totally agree that being calm and polite is the fastest way to get on your way.
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