A question about burning discs via Nero

[ithehappy]

I trust DVDs more than hard drives, thus I still write stuffs to DVDs. I remember that back in 05-06 I used to write a lot of DVDs, but then after few months when I rechecked them the DVD wouldn't run and I lost a lot of stuffs. Then a friend told me to write in UDF format, I followed that advice and since then I have not lost any data written to DVDs. Now was that just a dumb suggestion followed by a placebo effect or was that meaningful?

In any case, I just want to know whether there is any format out there in Nero which will help in retaining the data for as long as possible.

Thanks in advance.

PS: Also which is the best Nero version out there? I don't like having plenty of features which I will never use, I just need a simple app which will let me write DVDs, I don't even need high speeds. Last Nero I used was version 10 as far as I remember, and I haven't used the software for over nine ten months now, so I am little out of touch.

 

[Gunbuster]

So are you still using the same 10 year old DVD burner?

 

[ithehappy]

LOL. Wish I was that lucky. Right now I have the entry level Asus model. The longest I had a DVD writer working was a Sony model, which ran for three years, and then I sold it with the rest of the system.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I've still got nero 8 but I haven't been using it.

 

[ithehappy]

Damn no one writes DVDs any more? All switched to BR or what!

 

[Berryracer]

I always have the latest NERO. Right now using Nero Platinum 2015 suite, why the suite? simply because I love having Nero Video for editing videos easily and Nero Recode for converting videos. not only that, but with those 2, if you copy a normal AVI, MPEG, or any video file to create a video DVD, Nero Recode will do all the necessary conversions to ensure that computer video file is also playable on any DVD player.

Now back to your question, I always just burn using the default format and never had a problem; in fact, I never even checked what format I am burning, I just go to Nero Express and choose make data DVD

They have a good discount now on the Nero site BTW if you want to grab the basic Nero which is just the burner of the full suite which includes Nero Video, Nero Recode, etc. I make sure during installation to uncheck Nero Media Home as I dont need or like having a media center sort of player, like to play my files manually from their folders.

PS: For backup now, I don't backup anything, everything's on my OneDrive as I get 1 TB of free space since I am an Office 365 Home subscriber. Not bad for 9 USD a year and 1 TB for 5 users max so 5TB in total

 

[RampantAndroid]

Old DVDs will fail - probably faster than hard drives used for backup only. Unlike DVDs which are stamped, burned drives us a dye that is darkened by the laser. Some DVD-Rs out there used a dye with some amount of metal in it, some used a dye with no metal in it (Taiyo Yuden was preferred, iirc); the dyes without metal fail in a couple years. Dyes with metal last a couple of years longer, but still degrade. The organic dyes have a very finite life to them. Exposing a disc to UV light or shifting temperatures will also accelerate how fast they degrade.

In short, UDF did nothing for you, I imagine. Anymore, I just use the burning features built straight into Windows.

For reliably backing things up, you're better off buying two reliable hard drives and mirroring them in RAID 1, or running a RAID5 array (with parity.) It's probably cheaper in the very long run, and short of someone torching all of the drives (which could happen to your DVDs anyway) it's going to be really reliable.

 

[silicon]

Old DVDs will fail - probably faster than hard drives used for backup only. Unlike DVDs which are stamped, burned drives us a dye that is darkened by the laser. Some DVD-Rs out there used a dye with some amount of metal in it, some used a dye with no metal in it (Taiyo Yuden was preferred, iirc); the dyes without metal fail in a couple years. Dyes with metal last a couple of years longer, but still degrade. The organic dyes have a very finite life to them. Exposing a disc to UV light or shifting temperatures will also accelerate how fast they degrade.

In short, UDF did nothing for you, I imagine. Anymore, I just use the burning features built straight into Windows.

For reliably backing things up, you're better off buying two reliable hard drives and mirroring them in RAID 1, or running a RAID5 array (with parity.) It's probably cheaper in the very long run, and short of someone torching all of the drives (which could happen to your DVDs anyway) it's going to be really reliable.

what are the archival grade dvd's made of? I see they are a lot more expensive to buy, around $100 for 50 from verbatim.

 

[silicon]

I trust DVDs more than hard drives, thus I still write stuffs to DVDs. I remember that back in 05-06 I used to write a lot of DVDs, but then after few months when I rechecked them the DVD wouldn't run and I lost a lot of stuffs. Then a friend told me to write in UDF format, I followed that advice and since then I have not lost any data written to DVDs. Now was that just a dumb suggestion followed by a placebo effect or was that meaningful?

In any case, I just want to know whether there is any format out there in Nero which will help in retaining the data for as long as possible.

Thanks in advance.

PS: Also which is the best Nero version out there? I don't like having plenty of features which I will never use, I just need a simple app which will let me write DVDs, I don't even need high speeds. Last Nero I used was version 10 as far as I remember, and I haven't used the software for over nine ten months now, so I am little out of touch.

I am using ImgBurn which is free and works quite well. A used nero years ago but did not like how it installed. The version i bought would detect a previous version(even after using the Nero "cleaning tool" multiple times)and the install would stop. Pretty lame I thought.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Old DVDs will fail - probably faster than hard drives used for backup only. Unlike DVDs which are stamped, burned drives us a dye that is darkened by the laser. Some DVD-Rs out there used a dye with some amount of metal in it, some used a dye with no metal in it (Taiyo Yuden was preferred, iirc); the dyes without metal fail in a couple years. Dyes with metal last a couple of years longer, but still degrade. The organic dyes have a very finite life to them. Exposing a disc to UV light or shifting temperatures will also accelerate how fast they degrade.

In short, UDF did nothing for you, I imagine. Anymore, I just use the burning features built straight into Windows.

For reliably backing things up, you're better off buying two reliable hard drives and mirroring them in RAID 1, or running a RAID5 array (with parity.) It's probably cheaper in the very long run, and short of someone torching all of the drives (which could happen to your DVDs anyway) it's going to be really reliable.

Pretty much what he said. RAID is no substitute for proper backup though.

You can use (non-LTH) blurays for backup.

what are the archival grade dvd's made of? I see they are a lot more expensive to buy, around $100 for 50 from verbatim.

Same as blurays. Phase-change. Should be a lot more reliable long-term then organic dyes. There are also M-DISC for archiving. Have no experience with them though.

As for how long discs last, I'm just going to point out that I still have some CD-Rs (Kodak Ultima/Taiyo-Yuden... ) burned in the late '90s (16-18 years) that are still perfectly readable today. Keep away from heat and humidity, and they last quite long apparently.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Archival media from what I know is usually advertised as having gold in it. In practice, it's not good. It's less reflective than the dyes with silver in then, and not really going to last much longer either. If you're doing incremental backups of data every so often, optical media is OK. If you're doing long term backups where you burn and forget, optical media is not a good idea.

I will again said RAID5 is a better option...or make sure you do incremental backups and keep a couple copies of the discs around. Never expect a burned disc to last more than a couple years. You cannot bet on it lasting the MTBF.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

If you're doing long term backups where you burn and forget, optical media is not a good idea.

Me and Facebook disagrees with you on that...

http://arstechnica.com/information-...lu-ray-discs-are-perfect-for-the-data-center/

Of course you have to use the proper procedures when storing/handling, but a blanket statement that optical media is not a good idea for backup is just plain wrong.

Also see this thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2429096

I will again said RAID5 is a better option...or make sure you do incremental backups and keep a couple copies of the discs around. Never expect a burned disc to last more than a couple years. You cannot bet on it lasting the MTBF.

RAID in itself is not a backup solution.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Me and Facebook disagrees with you on that...

http://arstechnica.com/information-...lu-ray-discs-are-perfect-for-the-data-center/

Of course you have to use the proper procedures when storing/handling, but a blanket statement that optical media is not a good idea for backup is just plain wrong.

Also see this thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2429096



RAID in itself is not a backup solution.

There's a bunch of imperical data on failure rates of the dye. I've worked through the night so I'm not going to do legwork right now, but from what I've read over the years, you don't know when a disc will fail. When you pull it out it may or may not be readable. A HD in constant use for rolling backups will show early signs of failure via SMART.

RAID 5 itself isn't backup, but backing up your data to a RAID5 array gives you a backup location that is resistant to being brought down by a single drive failing.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

There's a bunch of imperical data on failure rates of the dye. I've worked through the night so I'm not going to do legwork right now, but from what I've read over the years, you don't know when a disc will fail. When you pull it out it may or may not be readable. A HD in constant use for rolling backups will show early signs of failure via SMART.

Blurays still do not use organic dyes. Only the LTH variety, and those are easy to avoid.

RAID 5 itself isn't backup, but backing up your data to a RAID5 array gives you a backup location that is resistant to being brought down by a single drive failing.

RAID5 is vulnerable to multi-drive failure. I wouldn't consider anything less then RAID6 for serious storage.

 

[bononos]

.....
In any case, I just want to know whether there is any format out there in Nero which will help in retaining the data for as long as possible.
Thanks in advance.
PS: Also which is the best Nero version out there? I don't like having plenty of features which I will never use, I just need a simple app which will let me write DVDs, I don't even need high speeds. Last Nero I used was version 10 as far as I remember, and I haven't used the software for over nine ten months now, so I am little out of touch.

Udf is recommended since its newer and handles long files names and nested directories better but it probably doesn't increase the reliability of the burns. The newer Nero versions are very bloated and include adware so I've switched to burnaware and cdburnerxp.

Quality wise, the biggest difference you can probably make is buying good blanks like Taiyoyuden. Many good brands have dropped off in quality now.