a potential gameplan for google/moto dumbphones

[vshah]

Now that google owns moto (the #3 phone manufacturer in the US incl dumbphones), how's this for an idea:

create a "dumbphone" version of android that strips out mobile network data capability, so they will be smartphones on wifi and dumbphones on a cell network.
they could remove hardware support etc. to prevent device modders from enabling this.

make all future moto dumbphones use this stripped version.

carriers shouldn't object since there will be no mobile data usage and it will serve as a gateway to a future smartphone upgrade. Google's app store user base will expand dramatically. I can't think of any immediate downsides...

 

[lothar]

Now that google owns moto (the #3 phone manufacturer in the US incl dumbphones), how's this for an idea:

create a "dumbphone" version of android that strips out mobile network data capability, so they will be smartphones on wifi and dumbphones on a cell network.
they could remove hardware support etc. to prevent device modders from enabling this.

make all future moto dumbphones use this stripped version.

carriers shouldn't object since there will be no mobile data usage. Google's app store user base will expand dramatically. I can't think of any immediate downsides...

All the more reason for the carriers to object.

 

[zerocool84]

All the more reason for the carriers to object.

Exactly, carriers want more people on data plans.

 

[vshah]

Well, it would still make sense for google/moto if they can get carriers to go along with it, since it would create an easily defined upgrade path for those users to get a smartphone the next time they upgrade. It should be pitched to the carriers in this way as well.

the only question is the hardware costs. although we have seen free android phones already...

basically, every moto dumbphone would be an entry level drug for android.

 

[gaidensensei]

why not just turn off the data on a smartphone and use the Wireless LAN only? can make calls, text. this is already possible unless I'm misreading the op.

 

[Necrolezbeast]

why not just turn off the data on a smartphone and use the Wireless LAN only? can make calls, text. this is already possible unless I'm misreading the op.

Generally speaking people buy phones on contract, smart phones require a data plan... therefore forcing people to pay more per month than a dumb phone. However, I don't see this happening... not saying it would be bad, I just don't think it will happen

 

[the DRIZZLE]

Now that google owns moto (the #3 phone manufacturer in the US incl dumbphones), how's this for an idea:

create a "dumbphone" version of android that strips out mobile network data capability, so they will be smartphones on wifi and dumbphones on a cell network.
they could remove hardware support etc. to prevent device modders from enabling this.

make all future moto dumbphones use this stripped version.

carriers shouldn't object since there will be no mobile data usage and it will serve as a gateway to a future smartphone upgrade. Google's app store user base will expand dramatically. I can't think of any immediate downsides...

I don't think you understand why dumbphones exist.

 

[Fox5]

There would be a big market for this, but cell companies don't even let you have a smart-phone minus the data, so no way this would go through.

However, Google could include a google app on moto's dumb phones that makes use of their texting and call-in services.

 

[kubani1]

I don't think you understand why dumbphones exist.

^^This

people get dumbphones so that they don't have all the other crap.

 

[vshah]

why not just turn off the data on a smartphone and use the Wireless LAN only? can make calls, text. this is already possible unless I'm misreading the op.

I mean this as a method for google to expand it's android user base dramatically, while providing a gateway to a true smartphone experience that will pay off for the carriers when the user next upgrades. Motorola shipped 5.2 million dumbphones in Q1 this year. (source)I would think that if all of those ran android w/ wifi only data, some amount of those buyers would upgrade to a full smartphone experience (including mobile data) where they otherwise wouldn't have.

I think someone who could afford smartphone (esp. since some are free on contract already) but not the data contract would jump at the opportunity to have an android device that can play games and browse the web on wifi.

basically an ipod touch with the phone built in, for free on contract.

 

[gaidensensei]

I see what you're getting at. The average person imo isn't clever enough to do the data disabling yet they do want to try a smartphone.

I think I was reading a day or two back that logged smartphone subscribers are at 88-89 million in the US, of the 270 million or so that are subscribed to a phone.

 

[poofyhairguy]

So basically fork a version of Android to be another Symbian.

 

[gorcorps]

This sounds like the opposite of what people would want. People who want smartphones utilize the ability to get data on the go, whether it's for maps, browser, etc... The people who don't want smartphones stay away from them because of the added complexity. They just want calls. Taking away data doesn't reduce the complexity of the phone, and it removes what smartphone users want.

Congratulations, you've now designed a phone that completely ignores the customers and only does what the companies (might)want.

 

[vshah]

This sounds like the opposite of what people would want. People who want smartphones utilize the ability to get data on the go, whether it's for maps, browser, etc... The people who don't want smartphones stay away from them because of the added complexity. They just want calls. Taking away data doesn't reduce the complexity of the phone, and it removes what smartphone users want.

Congratulations, you've now designed a phone that completely ignores the customers and only does what the companies (might)want.

this would not be targeted at someone who wants those things (i.e. smartphone users). it would be targeted at the person who wants the cheapest phone and plan. I think at least some of these people stay away from a smartphone not because of the added complexity, but because of the added cost of the required data plan. I bet that someone who buys a phone like this will buy at least a few games from the market...

if they then feel the need for mobile data, and if they can afford it in 2 years...guess which OS they're going to go with. it's not going to be iOS, that's for sure. same with the ipod touch. i doubt many ipod touch owners ended up getting an android smartphone. you're already locked in to one ecosystem.

 

[vshah]

So basically fork a version of Android to be another Symbian.

the OS would remain identical with the exception of mobile data being disabled.

 

[poofyhairguy]

the OS would remain identical with the exception of mobile data being disabled.

Verizon couldn't say "No" to that fast enough.

They want

Smartphone=Extra $40 a month

Period

 

[vshah]

Verizon couldn't say "No" to that fast enough.

They want

Smartphone=Extra $40 a month

Period

ok, i understand that. but verizon stills sells a ton of dumbphones, correct?

so for a verizon sales rep pushing a sale, the only options currently are a smartphone w/ a dataplan or dumbphone without. if the customer isn't willing to sign up for a data plan, this gives the sales rep a third option: "gimped" android with wifi only data. chances are this user will be more inclined to upgrade to a full smartphone in the future vs. the one who bought a regular dumbphone.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

ok, i understand that. but verizon stills sells a ton of dumbphones, correct?

so for a verizon sales rep pushing a sale, the only options currently are a smartphone w/ a dataplan or dumbphone without. if the customer isn't willing to sign up for a data plan, this gives the sales rep a third option: "gimped" android with wifi only data. chances are this user will be more inclined to upgrade to a full smartphone in the future vs. the one who bought a regular dumbphone.

How about all the customers who would have got the full smartphone but now get this thing instead. The data plans are where the real profit is.

 

[sham63]

This sounds like the opposite of what people would want. People who want smartphones utilize the ability to get data on the go, whether it's for maps, browser, etc... The people who don't want smartphones stay away from them because of the added complexity. They just want calls. Taking away data doesn't reduce the complexity of the phone, and it removes what smartphone users want.

Congratulations, you've now designed a phone that completely ignores the customers and only does what the companies (might)want.

I like his idea. I have an android on T-mo to go and pretty much use it on wifi only. I can load apps on it, and it is also a very good phone. I bet a lot of people would like to use it this way. I do not think it is the added complexity that keeps people from smartphones, it is the data plan. Why pay for something you do not want?

 

[vshah]

How about all the customers who would have got the full smartphone but now get this thing instead. The data plans are where the real profit is.

who would get this over a real smartphone except someone who really can't afford a real smartphone?

 

[BenSkywalker]

who would get this over a real smartphone except someone who really can't afford a real smartphone?

~50% of new phones are still dumb phones. You think there isn't a rather large segment of those users who would greatly appreciate such a device?

How about all the customers who would have got the full smartphone but now get this thing instead. The data plans are where the real profit is.

Data is less then 25% of my bill, and I pay for tethering on my line too. Data also requires massive investments. I would wager voice is still the driving force for margins in this market, obviously it is the driving force of revenue and a place of business offering consumers something they want to buy in general tends to be smart business.

 

[Fox5]

OP is right that there's a market for this.

It's basically an ipod touch, but add in a phone.
Heck, there are 200MB data plans, which are basically useless and serve the same exact purpose. Many people would gladly have a smart phone (read dumb phone + ipod features) in one device, without having to pay a monthly ownership fee.

 

[gaidensensei]

I'll bet there's a market for enthusiasts where you can build your own phone. Swap micro CPU's, micro RAM, and it'll be like building PC's on phones. It's gotta happen someday.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

who would get this over a real smartphone except someone who really can't afford a real smartphone?

If this existed the carriers wouldn't subsidize it at much since they wouldn't get the data plan revenue. That would add about $150-200 to the price. See the catch 22? Your only potential customers are people who are very price sensitive and you're trying to sell them a $400 cell phone. Good luck.

 

[vshah]

If this existed the carriers wouldn't subsidize it at much since they wouldn't get the data plan revenue. That would add about $150-200 to the price. See the catch 22? You're only potential customers are people who are very price sensitive and you're trying to sell them a $400 cell phone. Good luck.

this may be the "catch" that I was missing.