A potential fix for social security: offer assistance in goods/services in kind rather than just mailing checks

[glenn1]

Let's face it, the vast majority of folks out there collecting social security checks aren't just scraping by and having to eat dog food. If they are it's because *despite* having an entire lifetime to save for their retirement, they made crappy money and lifestyle choices and they should now have to face the music for those decisions.

My reform plan has one and only one step. It won't cost us any more money than we spend now and perhaps just maybe will make the greedy geezer set realize just how they're taking the money out of the pockets of their children and grandchildren. Simply replace cash payments to social security recipients with vouchers and assistance in kind. No more no-questions asked monthly stipend in cash form from Uncle Sam to pay for your bocci ball lessons and trips to Atlantic City.

Your SS check was for $600/month previously? Great, you're entitled to $600 worth of government cheese and/or food stamps/medical vouchers for the rest of your basic needs. Yes, if you're relying on me and my tax dollars to pay for your living expenses, I damn well want you to be embarrassed when you go to the supermarket and have to pull out your food stamps to pay for your incontinence diapers. Maybe then you'll sit and think for a moment about where that "free" money came from, such as from the 30 year old father of 3 who lives down the streer from you, is working two jobs to support his family, and who you think should pay for your goodies from taxes withheld from his paycheck. If you're old and pissed away your entire life's earnings while relying on social security to take care of you in your old age, then as the saying "beggars can't be choosers" applies and you can take your assistance whatever way we choose to give it to you.

 

[charrison]

or just treat it like insurance. Drop the rates and payout to those that need it.

SS is either a retirement plan or insurance, it cant be both.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: glenn1
Let's face it, the vast majority of folks out there collecting social security checks aren't just scraping by and having to eat dog food. If they are it's because *despite* having an entire lifetime to save for their retirement, they made crappy money and lifestyle choices and they should now have to face the music for those decisions.

My reform plan has one and only one step. It won't cost us any more money than we spend now and perhaps just maybe will make the greedy geezer set realize just how they're taking the money out of the pockets of their children and grandchildren. Simply replace cash payments to social security recipients with vouchers and assistance in kind. No more no-questions asked monthly stipend in cash form from Uncle Sam to pay for your bocci ball lessons and trips to Atlantic City.

Your SS check was for $600/month previously? Great, you're entitled to $600 worth of government cheese and/or food stamps/medical vouchers for the rest of your basic needs. Yes, if you're relying on me and my tax dollars to pay for your living expenses, I damn well want you to be embarrassed when you go to the supermarket and have to pull out your food stamps to pay for your incontinence diapers. Maybe then you'll sit and think for a moment about where that "free" money came from, such as from the 30 year old father of 3 who lives down the streer from you, is working two jobs to support his family, and who you think should pay for your goodies from taxes withheld from his paycheck. If you're old and pissed away your entire life's earnings while relying on social security to take care of you in your old age, then as the saying "beggars can't be choosers" applies and you can take your assistance whatever way we choose to give it to you.

You are way off base here, many of these people have paid in just as much as the guys currently paying in, and have already had benefits reduced once before(maybe twice). This isnt welfare, people paid in, and the government spent the money on other things.

 

[BarneyFife]

We should just kill people when they can't work anymore.

 

[glenn1]

You are way off base here, many of these people have paid in just as much as the guys currently paying in, and have already had benefits reduced once before(maybe twice). This isnt welfare, people paid in, and the government spent the money on other things.

It IS welfare. Benefits are completely at the whim of Congress, people paying in have NO rights to expect a return of payments made into the system if they are somehow disqualified from receiving them (per Supreme Court ruling), and in every other way that you could define a welfare program it matches up. Just because the qualifier to start receiving welfare benefits is obtaining a certain age rather than loss of employment or having dependent children doesn't mean it's anything but welfare. It sure as hell isn't a retirement plan as it's not covered under the ERISA laws, does not have any defined benefit characteristics, real assets backing up the participant claims, or any other feature whatsoever of a true retirement plan.

 

[cockeyed]

Originally posted by: digitalsm

Originally posted by: glenn1
Let's face it, the vast majority of folks out there collecting social security checks aren't just scraping by and having to eat dog food. If they are it's because *despite* having an entire lifetime to save for their retirement, they made crappy money and lifestyle choices and they should now have to face the music for those decisions.

My reform plan has one and only one step. It won't cost us any more money than we spend now and perhaps just maybe will make the greedy geezer set realize just how they're taking the money out of the pockets of their children and grandchildren. Simply replace cash payments to social security recipients with vouchers and assistance in kind. No more no-questions asked monthly stipend in cash form from Uncle Sam to pay for your bocci ball lessons and trips to Atlantic City.

Your SS check was for $600/month previously? Great, you're entitled to $600 worth of government cheese and/or food stamps/medical vouchers for the rest of your basic needs. Yes, if you're relying on me and my tax dollars to pay for your living expenses, I damn well want you to be embarrassed when you go to the supermarket and have to pull out your food stamps to pay for your incontinence diapers. Maybe then you'll sit and think for a moment about where that "free" money came from, such as from the 30 year old father of 3 who lives down the streer from you, is working two jobs to support his family, and who you think should pay for your goodies from taxes withheld from his paycheck. If you're old and pissed away your entire life's earnings while relying on social security to take care of you in your old age, then as the saying "beggars can't be choosers" applies and you can take your assistance whatever way we choose to give it to you.

You are way off base here, many of these people have paid in just as much as the guys currently paying in, and have already had benefits reduced once before(maybe twice). This isnt welfare, people paid in, and the government spent the money on other things.

They are entitled to their SS check since it was their money to begin with. As for as the 30yr old guy with 3 kids, he probably sends them to public school, subsidised in part by the retirees. In my area, the retired folks have about $3000 a year confiscated for the schools from their property tax bill and many of these people never had kids of their own. Many have been paying this tax for 30+ years. If they had been able to save this money and invest it, they would really be on easy street $$$$$.

 

[BBond]

Welfare

 

[Tom]

"does not have any defined benefit characteristics, real assets backing up the participant claims,"

Both of those statements are wrong, and there's hardly any reason for it to be covered by ERISA laws which cover PRIVATE retirement plans.

Additionally it is both a limited retirement and insurance safety net with disability, life, and dependent coverage. It's actually a very good bargain, very low overhead, it's just that when a person is young, everybody was young once you know and probably had the same thought when they look at their pay stub, it seems like a waste because young people think they are immortal and indestructable.

 

[dahunan]

Dear god.. the govt stole their money then.. you think they don't deserve their own money back?

Are you a communist?

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: glenn1
Let's face it, the vast majority of folks out there collecting social security checks aren't just scraping by and having to eat dog food. If they are it's because *despite* having an entire lifetime to save for their retirement, they made crappy money and lifestyle choices and they should now have to face the music for those decisions.

My reform plan has one and only one step. It won't cost us any more money than we spend now and perhaps just maybe will make the greedy geezer set realize just how they're taking the money out of the pockets of their children and grandchildren. Simply replace cash payments to social security recipients with vouchers and assistance in kind. No more no-questions asked monthly stipend in cash form from Uncle Sam to pay for your bocci ball lessons and trips to Atlantic City.

Your SS check was for $600/month previously? Great, you're entitled to $600 worth of government cheese and/or food stamps/medical vouchers for the rest of your basic needs. Yes, if you're relying on me and my tax dollars to pay for your living expenses, I damn well want you to be embarrassed when you go to the supermarket and have to pull out your food stamps to pay for your incontinence diapers. Maybe then you'll sit and think for a moment about where that "free" money came from, such as from the 30 year old father of 3 who lives down the streer from you, is working two jobs to support his family, and who you think should pay for your goodies from taxes withheld from his paycheck. If you're old and pissed away your entire life's earnings while relying on social security to take care of you in your old age, then as the saying "beggars can't be choosers" applies and you can take your assistance whatever way we choose to give it to you.

This thread shows what scumbags conservatives really are. Keep it coming.
These people aren't asking for you and your tax dollars, they are asking for tax dollars they've paid into SS all their lives. I know you are gonna enjoy making them get on their knees and beg you for it, but last time I checked, they didn't pay SS taxes in foodstamps and vouchers, and they sure as hell won't be getting paid back in those. But if you think they will, you have a hard lesson in democracy coming your way.

 

[Red Dawn]

n/m

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Tom
"does not have any defined benefit characteristics, real assets backing up the participant claims,"

Both of those statements are wrong, and there's hardly any reason for it to be covered by ERISA laws which cover PRIVATE retirement plans.

Additionally it is both a limited retirement and insurance safety net with disability, life, and dependent coverage. It's actually a very good bargain, very low overhead, it's just that when a person is young, everybody was young once you know and probably had the same thought when they look at their pay stub, it seems like a waste because young people think they are immortal and indestructable.

Considering a full retirment can be funded with what people pay into social security, this makes it a very bad deal.

 

[sonambulo]

hmmmm

congress is *probably* going to review this and work it into the reform

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Tom
"does not have any defined benefit characteristics, real assets backing up the participant claims,"

Both of those statements are wrong, and there's hardly any reason for it to be covered by ERISA laws which cover PRIVATE retirement plans.

Additionally it is both a limited retirement and insurance safety net with disability, life, and dependent coverage. It's actually a very good bargain, very low overhead, it's just that when a person is young, everybody was young once you know and probably had the same thought when they look at their pay stub, it seems like a waste because young people think they are immortal and indestructable.

Considering a full retirment can be funded with what people pay into social security, this makes it a very bad deal.

That's all fine and dandy but what do we do about those who screw up and make bad investments?

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Tom
"does not have any defined benefit characteristics, real assets backing up the participant claims,"

Both of those statements are wrong, and there's hardly any reason for it to be covered by ERISA laws which cover PRIVATE retirement plans.

Additionally it is both a limited retirement and insurance safety net with disability, life, and dependent coverage. It's actually a very good bargain, very low overhead, it's just that when a person is young, everybody was young once you know and probably had the same thought when they look at their pay stub, it seems like a waste because young people think they are immortal and indestructable.

Considering a full retirment can be funded with what people pay into social security, this makes it a very bad deal.

That's all fine and dandy but what do we do about those who screw up and make bad investments?

They are sent to debtors prison put to forced labor for life to pay for their sins of bad judgement.

Their wages, cheese.

This is the most mean-spirited generation I have ever seen. Telling people their contract with the government is void after they've paid their share then suggesting they're all looking for welfare.

That is just a pathetic display of everything that is wrong in human character.

Greed, hatred, deceit.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Tom
"does not have any defined benefit characteristics, real assets backing up the participant claims,"

Both of those statements are wrong, and there's hardly any reason for it to be covered by ERISA laws which cover PRIVATE retirement plans.

Additionally it is both a limited retirement and insurance safety net with disability, life, and dependent coverage. It's actually a very good bargain, very low overhead, it's just that when a person is young, everybody was young once you know and probably had the same thought when they look at their pay stub, it seems like a waste because young people think they are immortal and indestructable.

Considering a full retirment can be funded with what people pay into social security, this makes it a very bad deal.

That's all fine and dandy but what do we do about those who screw up and make bad investments?

If the options are limited like the federal employees retirement plan, screwing up would be almost impossible to do. Age/investment restrictions could be added to make it even more dummy proof. For those few that still manage to screw it up, I am sure we still manage some sort of safety net.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Tom
"does not have any defined benefit characteristics, real assets backing up the participant claims,"

Both of those statements are wrong, and there's hardly any reason for it to be covered by ERISA laws which cover PRIVATE retirement plans.

Additionally it is both a limited retirement and insurance safety net with disability, life, and dependent coverage. It's actually a very good bargain, very low overhead, it's just that when a person is young, everybody was young once you know and probably had the same thought when they look at their pay stub, it seems like a waste because young people think they are immortal and indestructable.

Considering a full retirment can be funded with what people pay into social security, this makes it a very bad deal.

That's all fine and dandy but what do we do about those who screw up and make bad investments?

They are sent to debtors prison put to forced labor for life to pay for their sins of bad judgement.

Their wages, cheese.

This is the most mean-spirited generation I have ever seen. Telling people their contract with the government is void after they've paid their share then suggesting they're all looking for welfare.

That is just a pathetic display of everything that is wrong in human character.

Greed, hatred, deceit.

Hey it's the Boomers fault, they raised them to be like that!

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn


Hey it's the Boomers fault, they raised them to be like that!

:laugh:

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Tom
"does not have any defined benefit characteristics, real assets backing up the participant claims,"

Both of those statements are wrong, and there's hardly any reason for it to be covered by ERISA laws which cover PRIVATE retirement plans.

Additionally it is both a limited retirement and insurance safety net with disability, life, and dependent coverage. It's actually a very good bargain, very low overhead, it's just that when a person is young, everybody was young once you know and probably had the same thought when they look at their pay stub, it seems like a waste because young people think they are immortal and indestructable.

Considering a full retirment can be funded with what people pay into social security, this makes it a very bad deal.

That's all fine and dandy but what do we do about those who screw up and make bad investments?

They are sent to debtors prison put to forced labor for life to pay for their sins of bad judgement.

Their wages, cheese.

This is the most mean-spirited generation I have ever seen. Telling people their contract with the government is void after they've paid their share then suggesting they're all looking for welfare.

That is just a pathetic display of everything that is wrong in human character.

Greed, hatred, deceit.

Hey it's the Boomers fault, they raised them to be like that!

NO one has really proposed taking benefits away from the boomer. MOst proposals talk about the reforming the system while proctecting benefits for those that are already retired. This rhetoric is getting old.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
We should just kill people when they can't work anymore.

That's their mindset...people (other than them) only have three purposes: cannon fodder, baby factory, or corporate slave. Everyone else is better off dead as far as they're concerned.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: charrison



NO one has really proposed taking benefits away from the boomer. MOst proposals talk about the reforming the system while proctecting benefits for those that are already retired. This rhetoric is getting old.

OK maybe I was being a little facetious. I think the earlier post I replied to had more to do with the tone of the OP than anything else.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: glenn1
Let's face it, the vast majority of folks out there collecting social security checks aren't just scraping by and having to eat dog food. If they are it's because *despite* having an entire lifetime to save for their retirement, they made crappy money and lifestyle choices and they should now have to face the music for those decisions.

My reform plan has one and only one step. It won't cost us any more money than we spend now and perhaps just maybe will make the greedy geezer set realize just how they're taking the money out of the pockets of their children and grandchildren. Simply replace cash payments to social security recipients with vouchers and assistance in kind. No more no-questions asked monthly stipend in cash form from Uncle Sam to pay for your bocci ball lessons and trips to Atlantic City.

Your SS check was for $600/month previously? Great, you're entitled to $600 worth of government cheese and/or food stamps/medical vouchers for the rest of your basic needs. Yes, if you're relying on me and my tax dollars to pay for your living expenses, I damn well want you to be embarrassed when you go to the supermarket and have to pull out your food stamps to pay for your incontinence diapers. Maybe then you'll sit and think for a moment about where that "free" money came from, such as from the 30 year old father of 3 who lives down the streer from you, is working two jobs to support his family, and who you think should pay for your goodies from taxes withheld from his paycheck. If you're old and pissed away your entire life's earnings while relying on social security to take care of you in your old age, then as the saying "beggars can't be choosers" applies and you can take your assistance whatever way we choose to give it to you.

Glenn, lets be real here. You're an elite wannabee. I'm assuming you're young, likely poor, and think you'll be a millionaire one day. Reality will strike when you're 65, have to pay $10k a year in health care premiums, and another $3k per year in medication. Just a reminder to all the poor neocons on this board that you'll be in their shoes one day.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Glenn, I have never had a problem with your thoughts before, and I generally respect you.

I think this is a greedy selfish thing you propose. I see these "rich" people every day, and many of their poor lifestyle choices is having ungrateful bastards for children. Many worked hard for wages which would not support putting awary for retirement. Maybe their mistake was giving support to their kids, making the next generation' life better for them. Everything they take for granted was provided by the earlier generation. You enjoy the fruits of THEIR labor. You can't earn enough to make up what they contributed to their country whether they earned a million or ten thousand a year.

The prior generation raised a generation selfish brats who think they owe the older ones nothing. They dispise them because they might have to provide for them.

This is the first generation to hate their elders rather than respect and care for them.

If you don't want to support them, if you want to bitch about your taxes, well leave the country THEY gave you, and move to Mexico, or some other South American country. Many of them are what you hope to make America to become.

There's the door. Don't let it hit you in the ass on the way out.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Glenn, I have never had a problem with your thoughts before, and I generally respect you.

I think this is a greedy selfish thing you propose. I see these "rich" people every day, and many of their poor lifestyle choices is having ungrateful bastards for children. Many worked hard for wages which would not support putting awary for retirement. Maybe their mistake was giving support to their kids, making the next generation' life better for them. Everything they take for granted was provided by the earlier generation. You enjoy the fruits of THEIR labor. You can't earn enough to make up what they contributed to their country whether they earned a million or ten thousand a year.

The prior generation raised a generation selfish brats who think they owe the older ones nothing. They dispise them because they might have to provide for them.

This is the first generation to hate their elders rather than respect and care for them.

If you don't want to support them, if you want to bitch about your taxes, well leave the country THEY gave you, and move to Mexico, or some other South American country. Many of them are what you hope to make America to become.

There's the door. Don't let it hit you in the ass on the way out.

:thumbsup:

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Glenn, I have never had a problem with your thoughts before, and I generally respect you.

I think this is a greedy selfish thing you propose. I see these "rich" people every day, and many of their poor lifestyle choices is having ungrateful bastards for children. Many worked hard for wages which would not support putting awary for retirement. Maybe their mistake was giving support to their kids, making the next generation' life better for them. Everything they take for granted was provided by the earlier generation. You enjoy the fruits of THEIR labor. You can't earn enough to make up what they contributed to their country whether they earned a million or ten thousand a year.

The prior generation raised a generation selfish brats who think they owe the older ones nothing. They dispise them because they might have to provide for them.

This is the first generation to hate their elders rather than respect and care for them.

If you don't want to support them, if you want to bitch about your taxes, well leave the country THEY gave you, and move to Mexico, or some other South American country. Many of them are what you hope to make America to become.

There's the door. Don't let it hit you in the ass on the way out.

:beer:

P.S. If you go to Mexico, you don't have to worry about the door hitting you in the ass, it's an open door policy.