A potential 1+ TRILLION dollar Bailout....

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Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
0
Originally posted by: babylon5
Wall Street makes big $$$ when their bets pay off, but taxpayers get the debt when they lose.

Great arrangement.
What's not fair about that? As Patrick Ewing said, 'they make a lot of money but they spend a lot of money'. The suits, watches, cars, houses, etc. We need to bail them out so they can maintain their lavish lifestyles.
 

The-Noid

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,117
0
76
They need to go as far as they can. From someone who actually works in these businesses and with people that are traders, hedge fund managers, mutual fund managers, and a money market fund manager.

Markets and confidence were in a state not seen since the depression, we were well on our way for a market failure.

The rest of the world will be borrowing like crazy as well, most people don't seem to understand this problem is around the world it is not just in the US.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
69,316
4,639
126
The Financial Crisis is like the Illegal Immigrat issue. Both are way too big for simple solutions. You just can't Deport all Illegal Immigrants, just like you can't just let all Banks/Insurance Corps fail. If some of you got your wish of simply letting them Fail, your Income would lose a huge amount of it's Value overnight and soon people wouldn't just be abandoning their Mortgaged Homes, they'd be abandoning their Auto Loans and possibly other Debts as well. The kind of money being spent here is certainly astronomical and there will certainly be short-term and long-term consequences, but to not spend it now will have much more severe consequences.

 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,687
2,794
126
Originally posted by: Yoxxy
They need to go as far as they can. From someone who actually works in these businesses and with people that are traders, hedge fund managers, mutual fund managers, and a money market fund manager.

Markets and confidence were in a state not seen since the depression, we were well on our way for a market failure.

The rest of the world will be borrowing like crazy as well, most people don't seem to understand this problem is around the world it is not just in the US.
We know the market would have crashed. This only proves it. But to not allow that and for the system to cleanse itself and start over is crossing the dangerous line.

You're happy because it temporarily saved your job and the system you use.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,687
2,794
126
Originally posted by: sandorski
The Financial Crisis is like the Illegal Immigrat issue. Both are way too big for simple solutions. You just can't Deport all Illegal Immigrants, just like you can't just let all Banks/Insurance Corps fail. If some of you got your wish of simply letting them Fail, your Income would lose a huge amount of it's Value overnight and soon people wouldn't just be abandoning their Mortgaged Homes, they'd be abandoning their Auto Loans and possibly other Debts as well. The kind of money being spent here is certainly astronomical and there will certainly be short-term and long-term consequences, but to not spend it now will have much more severe consequences.
Please. We and the world would've recovered and the world would not have ended. There would've been winners and losers just like now and it would've set the foundations for stronger and sustainable growth later on.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Originally posted by: Naustica
Originally posted by: Yoxxy
They need to go as far as they can. From someone who actually works in these businesses and with people that are traders, hedge fund managers, mutual fund managers, and a money market fund manager.

Markets and confidence were in a state not seen since the depression, we were well on our way for a market failure.

The rest of the world will be borrowing like crazy as well, most people don't seem to understand this problem is around the world it is not just in the US.
We know the market would have crashed. This only proves it. But to not allow that and for the system to cleanse itself and start over is crossing the dangerous line.

You're happy because it temporarily saved your job and the system you use.
It'll be interesting to see how this all shakes out, we hung a few people for the Enron mess, this affected a lot of people's retirement $, they're going to want blood.
 

The-Noid

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,117
0
76
I'm in law, we still would have worked with other firms, this was the state of every business we work with who couldn't get a line of credit, couldn't even roll over their commercial paper. I am doing a Master's in Finance so this is more of a hobby to me and me trading my own account.

There was no cleansing to be had here. You are talking about a complete stall of the US economy on a macro and micro level, don't act like the consumer is not to blame in this purchasing more house they could afford.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
69,316
4,639
126
Originally posted by: Naustica
Originally posted by: sandorski
The Financial Crisis is like the Illegal Immigrat issue. Both are way too big for simple solutions. You just can't Deport all Illegal Immigrants, just like you can't just let all Banks/Insurance Corps fail. If some of you got your wish of simply letting them Fail, your Income would lose a huge amount of it's Value overnight and soon people wouldn't just be abandoning their Mortgaged Homes, they'd be abandoning their Auto Loans and possibly other Debts as well. The kind of money being spent here is certainly astronomical and there will certainly be short-term and long-term consequences, but to not spend it now will have much more severe consequences.
Please. We and the world would've recovered and the world would not have ended. There would've been winners and losers just like now and it would've set the foundations for stronger and sustainable growth later on.
That's the same thinking that created this mess to begin with.
 

The-Noid

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,117
0
76
In the long run, I don't even care about the increase of taxes and I am in the highest bracket. Another 5%, to keep America moving is well worth it. You really can't understand how bad things were unless you look at a lot metrics.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,687
2,794
126
Well the rules have changed so that's no use in me crying about it. You have to play the hand that's dealt even at a fixed game.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
Originally posted by: Capitalizt
Buy Gold.
Buy Silver.
Sleep Tight.
You said that a year ago and gold dropped 20%. Oil is down 4% today... just stfu and admit you know jack shit about capital markets
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,377
1
0
Originally posted by: Yoxxy
In the long run, I don't even care about the increase of taxes and I am in the highest bracket. Another 5%, to keep America moving is well worth it. You really can't understand how bad things were unless you look at a lot metrics.
I agree. The situation sucks no matter how you slice it, but we gotta do what we gotta do in order to stay afloat.
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: Yoxxy
In the long run, I don't even care about the increase of taxes and I am in the highest bracket. Another 5%, to keep America moving is well worth it. You really can't understand how bad things were unless you look at a lot metrics.
I agree. The situation sucks no matter how you slice it, but we gotta do what we gotta do in order to stay afloat.
Going into debit to purchase assets isn't a bad thing, in fact it will help stabilize the economy. The problem is that we've already amassed so much 'useless' debt. We're addicted to spending and because the government needs to intervene and spend money here, it also needs to start making up that debt in the future.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
God, it's just painful to watch Bush on TV... I was listening to his speech a few minutes ago, he meant to say "prosecuted"

Text

 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Originally posted by: Naustica
Originally posted by: sandorski
The Financial Crisis is like the Illegal Immigrat issue. Both are way too big for simple solutions. You just can't Deport all Illegal Immigrants, just like you can't just let all Banks/Insurance Corps fail. If some of you got your wish of simply letting them Fail, your Income would lose a huge amount of it's Value overnight and soon people wouldn't just be abandoning their Mortgaged Homes, they'd be abandoning their Auto Loans and possibly other Debts as well. The kind of money being spent here is certainly astronomical and there will certainly be short-term and long-term consequences, but to not spend it now will have much more severe consequences.
Please. We and the world would've recovered and the world would not have ended. There would've been winners and losers just like now and it would've set the foundations for stronger and sustainable growth later on.
And, the people responsible would have suffered the consequences.

Predatory lending would be a thing of the past, and not a slap on the wrist.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
While some voices were crying crying out in the wilderness saying stupid, we let GWB&co dismantle over a century worth of common sense regulations our wiser leaders put in place to prevent these type of problems.
Now after waiting far too long and when our entire banking system is on the verge of collapse, we still allow GWB&co to believe they are not the CAUSE of this.

After watching the entire financial system melt down, GWB finally wakes up and notices its on fire. Only then does GWB wake up and tries to smother the fire by pouring more borrowed money on it.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
1
0
Originally posted by: Capitalizt
Buy Gold.
Buy Silver.
Sleep Tight.
gold and silver have fallen faster than the rest of the market, clearly bad advice unless you are looking to dump your own foolish investment.
 

5to1baby1in5

Golden Member
Apr 27, 2001
1,224
94
91
Originally posted by: babylon5
Wall Street makes big $$$ when their bets pay off, but taxpayers get the debt when they lose.

Great arrangement.
Yea, screw that!

I would rather see Suits and Players jumping out of high-rise windows like the old days.

Suicide from the 100th floor
Swan dive to the street
Ted Nugent
The great depression wasn't that bad for me.
<--------- 44 yrs old. ;)
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,377
1
0
Originally posted by: BeauJangles
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: Yoxxy
In the long run, I don't even care about the increase of taxes and I am in the highest bracket. Another 5%, to keep America moving is well worth it. You really can't understand how bad things were unless you look at a lot metrics.
I agree. The situation sucks no matter how you slice it, but we gotta do what we gotta do in order to stay afloat.
Going into debit to purchase assets isn't a bad thing, in fact it will help stabilize the economy. The problem is that we've already amassed so much 'useless' debt. We're addicted to spending and because the government needs to intervene and spend money here, it also needs to start making up that debt in the future.
Absolutely. I am all for increasing efficiency and gradual reform to do so, but I must insist that we reasonably stabilize where we are now first with what we have. Some people feel that we can skip the stabilize part and just jump into the reform stages which I agree is sometimes possible and even the best option on a case by case basis. However, there are other times where doing so is both riskier and more painful even with success in the long run.
 

racolvin

Golden Member
Jul 26, 2004
1,257
0
0
Originally posted by: Yoxxy
don't act like the consumer is not to blame in this purchasing more house they could afford.
Actually yes, I can act that way. Why? Because they should never have been ALLOWED to purchase more home than they could afford. That's the whole idea behind rules, regulations, and lending practices.

When I bought my first home back in the 90's I had to come up with 20% down to get rid of PMI, I had to document all my sources of income and the balances in my accounts. I had to go back 3 months to prove that I hadn't gotten the money for my down payment from loans from my folks, etc, etc.

What caused alot of this issue in the mortgage business is the fact that they relaxed all that and allowed people to walk in to a mortgage broker and say "Oh I make $250k/yr" and the mortgage broker was ALLOWED to just take their word for it! No verification of income, no tax records, nothing!

As one poster here in AT said before (my apologies because I don't remember who), the American Dream is and should be just a dream for some people. We should have to save up for a down payment, we should have to work a second job if necessary to come up with the money for that down payment. We should have to tighten our belts and not buy all the Wii, cars, boats, big screen TV's, etc to save up for that down payment. The fact that they relaxed that idea and those rules is part of the problem.

Of course the rest of the problem is then allowing the mortgage investors to leverage those already bad loans into other investments as if they were guaranteed money but that's another topic completely ...

 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,377
1
0
Originally posted by: racolvin
Originally posted by: Yoxxy
don't act like the consumer is not to blame in this purchasing more house they could afford.
Actually yes, I can act that way. Why? Because they should never have been ALLOWED to purchase more home than they could afford. That's the whole idea behind rules, regulations, and lending practices.

*more stuff*
Yup. Rules and regs are only as good as the people who are given the power to enforce them. In this case, the banks were supposed to be the enforcers but they dropped the ball big time. That doesn't mean that the consumer was innocent, but it does mean that they are not nearly as responsible. They are not the enforcers nor are they the paid to be the professionals.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
10,668
2,358
136
People gota realize something. Those home bank loans were insured by fannie and freddie. Thats why banks never wanted to work with borrowers behind in loans payments. They'd rather get 80% from fannie and freddie plus whatever the home owner had already paid before foreclosure. Actually, with that 80% and what they got on the loan from the customer, the banks made out pretty good. VERY GOOD!

That is why they never wanted to work out solutions with home owners behind in their payments. Just say F-U and collect 80%, then foreclose. Done deal.

Well the banks greed broke freddie and fannie's back. So under they went.
But remember, it was the banks that made these bad loans in the first place.
Why worry if a borrower will pay back, they are insured for 80% from fannie/freddie.
So lets make the $100,000 loan to that guy working at McDonalds.
We'll collect one way or the other.

NOW... with this gov massive bailout, and still no regulation, I guarantee you the banks will start pulling the strings, more greed, that will have them in the same boat in just years from now. That is WITH this massive bailout.

You think its bad now... And you think they will learn their lesson. And you REALLY think the greed will stop???
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
10,668
2,358
136
Ps.
That clicking sound you hear are the banking lobbyist running around congress to get this bailout deal done.

We've been screwed before, but you aint been screwed like your going to be screwed with this bailout. There wont be one virgin left among us...
And we have no say in the matter. No say what so ever.
 

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