A peek at private run healthcare

[Phokus]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a33_1245701809

It seems to me for people that are so gung-ho about keeping private insurance in this country, they have to suffer a medical setback so great that the insurance companies kicks you off their plans to save money (and thus preserving profits for their shareholders) to really open their eyes. I bet if any of you anti-single payer people had to suffer this kind of outrageous and unconscionable act by an insurance company, you'd be crying out for government to do something.

Actually, at the end of the video where the CEO's of the insurance companies not promising to NOT kick people off health insurance plans (unless it's related to fraud) should tell you all you need to know about the skewed incentives. Insurance CEO's are quite literally scum.

edit:

here are those scumbag CEO's i was mentioning (fast forward to around the last minute)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsoR8Fp0K4U

 

[CADsortaGUY]

wow, yet another UHC thread by a leftist... go figure.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
wow, yet another UHC thread by a leftist... go figure.

another worthless comment by CAD... go figure.

 

[alchemize]

For shame. We should throw the politicians out of office who are not proposing/supporting single payer healthcare, right?

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: alchemize
For shame. We should throw the politicians out of office who are not proposing single payer healthcare, right?

No, no, you're right, we should keep for-profit healthcare and let CEO's determine who should and shouldn't get healthcare. Kick those sick (and costly) bastards off their health insurance plans!

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: alchemize
For shame. We should throw the politicians out of office who are not proposing single payer healthcare, right?

No, no, you're right, we should keep for-profit healthcare and let CEO's determine who should and shouldn't get healthcare. Kick those sick (and costly) bastards off their health insurance plans!

You sound like Obama now. That's his position.

 

[shabby]

Originally posted by: Phokus
bet if any of you anti-single payer people had to suffer this kind of outrageous and unconscionable act by an insurance company, you'd be crying out for government to do something.

Thats what its going to take, everyone has to realize that there simply cant be a middleman standing between you and your doctor that has the power to deny you coverage because it'll hurt their profits.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: shabby

Originally posted by: Phokus
bet if any of you anti-single payer people had to suffer this kind of outrageous and unconscionable act by an insurance company, you'd be crying out for government to do something.

Thats what its going to take, everyone has to realize that there simply cant be a middleman standing between you and your doctor that has the power to deny you coverage.

There are indemnity plans still available out there, that's always an option. But it isn't available for Medicare, won't be for the proposed public option.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: alchemize
For shame. We should throw the politicians out of office who are not proposing single payer healthcare, right?

No, no, you're right, we should keep for-profit healthcare and let CEO's determine who should and shouldn't get healthcare. Kick those sick (and costly) bastards off their health insurance plans!

You sound like Obama now. That's his position.

A LOT of people are sounding just like Obama on the health care issue, so get used to it.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: alchemize
For shame. We should throw the politicians out of office who are not proposing single payer healthcare, right?

No, no, you're right, we should keep for-profit healthcare and let CEO's determine who should and shouldn't get healthcare. Kick those sick (and costly) bastards off their health insurance plans!

You sound like Obama now. That's his position.

A LOT of people are sounding just like Obama on the health care issue, so get used to it.

That's why he's president, and someone who doesn't hold this position isn't.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Can't we stay on the important topics that face this country today? Like Sarah Palin?

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Another aspect of the current system that I deplore is the depth to which the mega insurance companies and health service organizations have intertwined themselves in the medical and hospital management industry.

Probably half the doctors in the country are on the payroll of or connected to one of these companys. I and my family avoid such doctors and I go to alot of trouble investigating a doctors connections to insurance companies before we will see them, and it is becoming harder and harder to find and independent doctor. The three doctors that our family currently use are such independent doctors and they all deplore insurance companies and are 100% for a single payer system.

Here's another of my anecdotal stories

A good friend and work colleage of mine is from a wealthy family, his 60 something retired parents own four homes one in Kansas, one in Texas, one in the south of France, and one in Cabo san lucas Mex. These folks could obviously pay for the best healthcare anywhere they choose insurance or not, and have recieved healthcare every where they've lived.

My friends Dad has had three heart attacks and several other serious conditions and requries alot of medical care. They pretty much split their time between their homes in France and Mexico and pretty much only come to the US for holidays and family events becuse the Dad now refuses to seek treatment in the US.

You here alot of stories of Rich people traveling to the US for healthcare, just thought I would share this to show there are wealthy Americans that seek their healthcare elsewhere

 

[gingermeggs]

Richard Collins has his hand the Right shape, now he just needs to raise it up and say "ziegg heil".

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Can't we stay on the important topics that face this country today? Like Sarah Palin?

Don't worry, i bet Sarah Palin supports the insurance company's right to kick costly sick people off their plans as well. She's a free marketer, you betcha!

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
Another aspect of the current system that I deplore is the depth to which the mega insurance companies and health service organizations have intertwined themselves in the medical and hospital management industry.

Probably half the doctors in the country are on the payroll of or connected to one of these companys. I and my family avoid such doctors and I go to alot of trouble investigating a doctors connections to insurance companies before we will see them, and it is becoming harder and harder to find and independent doctor. The three doctors that our family currently use are such independent doctors and they all deplore insurance companies and are 100% for a single payer system.

Here's another of my anecdotal stories

A good friend and work colleage of mine is from a wealthy family, his 60 something retired parents own four homes one in Kansas, one in Texas, one in the south of France, and one in Cabo san lucas Mex. These folks could obviously pay for the best healthcare anywhere they choose insurance or not, and have recieved healthcare every where they've lived.

My friends Dad has had three heart attacks and several other serious conditions and requries alot of medical care. They pretty much split their time between their homes in France and Mexico and pretty much only come to the US for holidays and family events becuse the Dad now refuses to seek treatment in the US.

You here alot of stories of Rich people traveling to the US for healthcare, just thought I would share this to show there are wealthy Americans that seek their healthcare elsewhere

How do you find out which doctors are on the health insurance company's payroll?

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: Phokus

How do you find out which doctors are on the health insurance company's payroll?[/quote]


It's not easy, and you can only come to an educated guess as to how much a doctor is influenced by insurance companies. I start by finding out if they are totally independent or part of a physicians group, I then find out which HMO preffered provider networks they are a member of and their policies for treatment of out of network patients. And I ask them directly their opinions and affiliations with different insurance companies.

 

[Slew Foot]

Accepting payments from /= on the company's payroll

 

[Circlenaut]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Accepting payments from /= on the company's payroll

They shouldn't be accepting payment from anyone besides the hospital they work in. No company should influence a doctor's diagnosis.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Single payer is retarded.

UHC only works when the government owns and runs hospitals.

That way you can still keep your top-of the-line-hospitals for the insured, and send the illegals to the not-quite-as-top-of-the-line government hospital down the road.

Obamas plan is awful.

 

[mattpegher]

As a physician, I desire only a few things out of whatever health care system we go to.

1. The treating physician should be the only one determining care. Except for a few highly experimental treatments, my patients should get the best treatment available for their disease. (My current VA patients do not have this luxury often having to accept only the cheapest treatments)
2. The cost of actually providing care should not be something we cheap out on. Nurses and lab techs don't make a great deal, and machines can be costly. I cannot name one hospital in my area that is not in the red, most surviving on charitable donations. Much of the cost that we as a society pay for is in the form of regulatory oversite, lost man-hours spent trying to get paid and administrative BS. (some of which is necessary for safety and some is not)
3. Don't drive the pharmaceutical industry out of business, I often find need for new inovations and I don't see government doing enough to find new meds. Sure, I don't think that they should be able to sell for less in other countries.
4. I make a comfortable income but no more than other professionals in the US. My salary has decreased over the last 10 years (thats total, no change for cost of living/inflation) Significantly impact this and we will have a shift of intellect to other fields. Remember thousands of foriegn trained physicians fail to pass our standard practice boards every year.
5. Insurance companies are a severe drain on our national expense for healthcare, I do not pretend to think that direct funding will be any more efficient. Mechanisms to limit their waste must be formost in our plans.
6 One quarter of my gross income is spent on malpractice insurance. That means that I could continue to deliver the same care at a lower cost if that was lessened.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: mattpegher
6 One quarter of my gross income is spent on malpractice insurance. That means that I could continue to deliver the same care at a lower cost if that was lessened.

what's the tax treatment of that? i.e. can you pay it with pre-tax dollars or must it be after-tax dollars?

 

[mattpegher]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: mattpegher
6 One quarter of my gross income is spent on malpractice insurance. That means that I could continue to deliver the same care at a lower cost if that was lessened.

what's the tax treatment of that? i.e. can you pay it with pre-tax dollars or must it be after-tax dollars?

Thats pre-tax luckily.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: mattpegher
As a physician, I desire only a few things out of whatever health care system we go to.

1. The treating physician should be the only one determining care. Except for a few highly experimental treatments, my patients should get the best treatment available for their disease. (My current VA patients do not have this luxury often having to accept only the cheapest treatments)

That is the problem. We simply can't afford to give everyone the best possible health care available. Health care will be rationed in one form or another regardless of who is paying for it.

 

[mattpegher]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: mattpegher
As a physician, I desire only a few things out of whatever health care system we go to.

1. The treating physician should be the only one determining care. Except for a few highly experimental treatments, my patients should get the best treatment available for their disease. (My current VA patients do not have this luxury often having to accept only the cheapest treatments)

That is the problem. We simply can't afford to give everyone the best possible health care available. Health care will be rationed in one form or another regardless of who is paying for it.

I don't see americans allowing themselves to not have the options. It will mostlikely lead to a two teared system where those that can afford it will pay for more. The question is will it be in the US, and will it be legal to sell an insurance plan for such a thing.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
wow, yet another UHC thread by a leftist... go figure.

and to think mine got locked because it wasn't in "the" UHC thread.