A Palin thread from an Alaskan

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heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
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Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

See bolded. And the question about the new gasline and LNG terminal

Thank you for the time and effort you put into your thoughts .... I appreciate your support or the Governor and hope you get to keep her :)

With regards to your comments about the plane, I believe Genx87 completely debunked your theory on that in this thread that you never returned to.

You still havent provided me with any information on the numbers of prisoners transported and the mode of transportation. If in FY 06 they trasnported 1000 prisoners and in FY 07 they transported 2000 prisoners your numbers are meaningless. And if they transported them via bus, ship, or train does that count towards the cost of the plane?

Secondly Murkowski prepared the FY07 + FY06 budget. Any increase was at the hands of Murkowski who was still using the jet. In fact using your numbers the cost of transportation increased from 1.2 million in FY05(the year you claim the plane started to be used) to 1.95 million in FY 07 the last Murkowski budget.

And without having any information on prisoners transported you cant make any claims as to how much the jet truely saved(is anything at all consdiering the high per seat cost). My claim of 115K came from the article I provided. With the numbers provided. It could be higher if multiple marshal flights were conducted. But you wont see me make that claim.

Did you find something new that you neglected to post, or were you just ignoring his rebuttal?

You haven't debunked anything, JD. And neither has GenX

If you want to question the numbers do your own research and get back to me.

I've never seen you add anything to the conversation except trolling anyway ...

 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,919
2,886
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Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: OrByte
SO, is this really from you or is this an email you got?

seriously I'm curious.

Even if it were from an email, would it make it any less valid?



No, nothing could make this less valid. It is crapaganda at its stinkiest.

Didn't you just call someone out for trolling in another thread?




Uh, Yes; and that's exactly what I'm doing here: calling out a Pro-Palin Troll.

Have you even read the thread? He's not trolling, he's giving his opinion based on his personal experience. Seems like a pretty good discussion so far.




Right-o!

"personal" opinions can never be partisan trolling; got it.

:thumbsup:

I didn't say that, I said that this particular person is not trolling. If you'd take the time to actually read the thread, you'd see that he's engaging in a reasonable debate with everyone that challenges him. That's not trolling.

 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,919
2,886
136
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

See bolded. And the question about the new gasline and LNG terminal

Thank you for the time and effort you put into your thoughts .... I appreciate your support or the Governor and hope you get to keep her :)

With regards to your comments about the plane, I believe Genx87 completely debunked your theory on that in this thread that you never returned to.

You still havent provided me with any information on the numbers of prisoners transported and the mode of transportation. If in FY 06 they trasnported 1000 prisoners and in FY 07 they transported 2000 prisoners your numbers are meaningless. And if they transported them via bus, ship, or train does that count towards the cost of the plane?

Secondly Murkowski prepared the FY07 + FY06 budget. Any increase was at the hands of Murkowski who was still using the jet. In fact using your numbers the cost of transportation increased from 1.2 million in FY05(the year you claim the plane started to be used) to 1.95 million in FY 07 the last Murkowski budget.

And without having any information on prisoners transported you cant make any claims as to how much the jet truely saved(is anything at all consdiering the high per seat cost). My claim of 115K came from the article I provided. With the numbers provided. It could be higher if multiple marshal flights were conducted. But you wont see me make that claim.

Did you find something new that you neglected to post, or were you just ignoring his rebuttal?

You haven't debunked anything, JD. And neither has GenX

If you want to question the numbers do your own research and get back to me.

I've never seen you add anything to the conversation except trolling anyway ...

:confused:

Then why do you refuse to respond to the points that he made?

Edit - You're the one claiming that she was responsible for the $500,000 jump in the 2007 budget, so prove it. I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm voting 3rd party, I'd just like to see your response to Genx.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
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Originally posted by: JD50
I didn't say that, I said that this particular person is not trolling. If you'd take the time to actually read the thread, you'd see that he's engaging in a reasonable debate with everyone that challenges him. That's not trolling.

To the frothies, everyone who doesn't drink the kool-aid and agree with them is "trolling".

 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
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Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
You provide one disagreement, and then ask for more than 2 or 3 in return to prove he is being neutral?

For example, he already stated one, and he didn't make an excuse for her. He stated that an action needed to be done, and he didn't agree with how it was done, and why he believes she did it.

You state Obama did something and you believe he did it for a particular reason.

Both are examples of a fact of an event, and a personal disagreement on the event.

I see no controversy here. Though, yes, Apple's over all opinion of Sarah is positive, it isn't mindless praise. He is bringing to light actual details and points of what he views as positive outcomes for Alaska. Basically saying, she is accused of being all talk, but he has seen that she walks the walk as well, and overall, has benefitted Alaska.

I think Alaskan's should be her toughest critics, and staunchest supporters, and given that she is their Governor, I weigh their opinion higher than I do the rest of the United States, who admittedly are very out of tough with Alaska, that it might as well be it's own country.
The number of issues that one can use to show neutrality isn't really what matters. But the fact that someone can attempt to show neutrality around here by pointing to "facts of an event" or "personal disagreement on the event" is helpful. And apple has provided a list of things wherein he/she questions Palins ethics and judgement.

As for Apple's opinion having more weight than others I agree with you on that. Which is why I think he/she is getting better treatment than some of the partisan hacks on this board.

As for people of the lower 48 being admittedly "out of touch" with Alaska. I think that is a two way street. I think Alaskans can be out of touch with the rest of America. And I think that wrt electing the Alaskan Governor as VP of the US, well there might be a bit of a "disconnect" issue for that specific reason. But as of right now Im not holding that against Palin, quite frankly I dont know anything about her to suggest she can or cannot represent America as good or bad as she has represented Alaska.

 

Apple Of Sodom

Golden Member
Oct 7, 2007
1,808
0
0
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: Apple Of Sodom
[
How about we base this on earmarked dollars per square mile? Who has the least?

We don't do that because square miles don't pay taxes, the people do, silly.

Necessary infrastructure is necessary infrastructure. You ignore the main point.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Apple Of Sodom

I am not really a Republican or Democrat. I don't like to align with a single party.

I think Bush has screwed this country for the last several years, as well.

Sarah is not perfect. She has made a few mistakes, but she is overall pretty honest. Alaskans love her, and many of them love her so much as governer that they will have a hard time voting for her as VP because it means she leaves us. Sarah doesn't take crap, and isn't bullied. She is a woman who cannot be bought, and it is pretty clear that she does the right thing in most cases.

So let me get this straight, you agree Republicans have screwed the country the last seven years but yet because McCain picks you favorite Governor you will vote for them again?

Epic Fail

Sad for America
rose.gif


Edit" By the Way, you are 110% Republican
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: sierrita
Do you really believe that simply because she is a governor that she is automatically more qualified than any U.S. Senator?
Historically speaking, yes.

Look at the list of Senators who became President and compare it to Governors who became President.
No comparison.

Governors:
Jefferson, Monroe, Teddy Roosevelt, Wilson, FDR, Reagan and Clinton. And that is just a partial list.
Jefferson, TR, FDR, and Wilson are typically considered among the top 10 of Presidents.

Senators.
Monroe (again) J Q Adams, Jackson, Van Buren, W H Harrison, Tyler, Pierce, Buchanan, Johnson, B Harrison, Harding, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon.
Should I continue after looking at that list?
The four worst Presidents in history were all Senators!
Jackson and Truman are the only ones on that list who are highly regarded.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
In the end, it boils down to who you agree with on the policies.

I don't agree with Palin's policies, or McCain's.

Simple as that.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
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Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Corbett
And like clockwork, jpeyton ignore's the fact that Palin has an 85% approval rating in her home state and finds one of the few people who obviously don't like her.
Every governor would have an 85% approval rating if their sole job was to cash big oil checks and mail hand-outs to the residents while collecting 10 times the per capita average in earmark dollars for her constituency.

Money makes people happy.

Really? Would you care to explain why other governors of Alaska never had that kind of approval ratings given the exact same office where it's so easy to do? Hmmmmm?

You very easily forget the fact that she was on the job less than 2 years and her first budget is barely starting to take effect.

Even Bush had a 90% approval rating early on. See what a little time can do to opinions?
 

Apple Of Sodom

Golden Member
Oct 7, 2007
1,808
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Originally posted by: heyheybooboo


As noted, the trooper was previously punished for his indiscretions. Additional punishment may be seen by some as punitive and 'double jeopardy'. It also appears that as part of the 'punishment' privacy rules were broken and workman compensation laws violated. It also looks like Todd had a vendetta and was using his wife's authority (with her permission) to go after this guy.


The other side is that this guy was not really punished. It is the Governer's job to oversee this and felt that the punishment was unsatisfactory given what he had done. Was there a little personal feelings there? More than likely. We still feel she did the right thing, and I have not personal feelings there.

I understand the issues surrounding the Ketchikan bridge and its purpose. I personally feel it is not our responsibility to tell Alaska what transportation infrastructure they want. The point of the controversy is that the Governor is representing the event in a false fashion. As part of her campaign for governor she supported the bridge. The US Congress stripped the earmark designation for the bridge. And the month before the Governor 'turned down the project' the Alaska DOT recommended that the project be canceled and suggested the ferry as a more prudent option.

The governer got a recommendation to cancel, and she did. So what? She is not a transportation expert.



She raised royalty fees and taxes on the oil companies by 9% - maybe that has something to do with the cost of your gas. The State oil royalty payment (coming out this week ??) to citizens is now over $3,200.00 as I understand it.


I'm glad she taxed the oil companies. They are making billions. And we actually use relatively little of our fuel. This is where understanding comes in:

The oil companies had a contract with our military bases to provide jet fuel at a certain price. The skyrocketing fuel costs have hit their pockets, and now they raise consumer fuel prices to make up for it. It has nothing to do with the tax.

The PFD has to do with stock market performance of invested royalty monies. It trails roughly five years. We are seeing an upturn in the money because of investments made and the trend of the stock market from a few years back.



The plane was purchased in 2005 for $3.7 million and used 58% of the time to transport prisoners both in and out of state. Yes. Murkowski was wrong in purchasing the jet outside of the legislative budget process. The jet was taken out of service when Palin became governor and sold 6 months later for $3.1 million. Note the variations in the following funding from the Alaska State budget ...



Coincidence? It looks to me like the jet was saving the State of Alaska $500,000.00/yr in inmate transportation costs. Governor Palin has acknowledged the potential need in purchasing another aircraft.


Again, live here. He was not saving the state money. How much does it cost to have a private pilot, crew, hangar and maintenance for a jet of that nature?


The 'chef' is still employed by the State of Alaska

I'm glad he didn't lose his job. I'm sure they have placed him elsewhere where he is more needed.


Not only did she bill the State of Alaska a 'per diem' for staying in her own home, she billed the State $43,000+ to transport her husband and children.

This is something that is allowed, but something I disagree with on the surface. It isn't a deal breaker though because she was technically away from home and she is allowed travel expense for family.

The Town of Wasilla as a 'commercial hub' voted in a sales tax increase (I think it took less than 350 affirmative votes.) which the 70,000+ residents of Mat-Su borough now pay when they shop there.

GOOD! The people that drive there litter, use roads and infrastructure. They needed to pay tax. Because of those people you need better highways, more infrastructure. They should pay for it!



We don't need more oil. We do, however, need the natural gas from the North Slope. Governor Palin pushed thru legislation that pays TransCanada $500,000,000.00 dollars with no requirement that the gasline be built.




I would be interested in how you feel about the alternative of building the new gasline alone the existing right-of-way of the Alaska pipeline to a new LNG terminal at Valdez. It looks like a much better project for the citizens of Alaska, less expensive and more quickly built, and is better positioned to supply the future energy needs of our country. And beats the crap out of moving all that natural gas thru Canada into Chicago.


I think it would be a fantastic idea. It would give us LNG now. However, I still firmly believe in drilling ANWR. We do need the oil. Look at all the cars on the highway. People talk about reducing dependency, but that is all it is.

Edited for bolding, and I forgot to delete a few points from the original post.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Who cares? Should McCain win, the only thing Palin will be doing as VP is cutting ribbons at openings.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The four worst Presidents in history were all Senators!

I think you missed one governor.
Nope :)

Generally the four worst are Buchanan, Harding, Pierce and Johnson. All Senators.
Worst governor would be Tyler.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
13,833
11,492
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Originally posted by: Apple Of Sodom
Originally posted by: Pens1566

Uh, she actually kept the money ....

Yes. Well, she kept it for the state. She didn't cash a check for herself. Although, since she kept the money and spent it on other projects, it isn't really earmarked money, is it?

I know she didn't keep it for herself. :cookie:


Do you honestly think that it's ok to keep the money and use it???? And isn't it true that some of the money was used to build/improve the roads leading right up to where the bridge would have been?? How is that not a waste of our tax dollars??
 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
0
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Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: OrByte
SO, is this really from you or is this an email you got?

seriously I'm curious.

Even if it were from an email, would it make it any less valid?

yes because it would be deceitful to state at the beginning of the OP that "I am from Alaska" and then copy and paste a chainletter.

you know its happened before. :)

you mean like J Peytons pasted email?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The four worst Presidents in history were all Senators!

I think you missed one governor.
Nope :)

Generally the four worst are Buchanan, Harding, Pierce and Johnson. All Senators.
Worst governor would be Tyler.

According to whose list, PJ, when you've neglected to mention Coolidge anywhere?

Oh and BTW, McCain is a Senator. Palin is not running for President.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
106
Originally posted by: AeroEngy
I am just trying to point out that being a governor is sufficient qualification.

That's great. And I think that my original point was that being governor does not make someone automatically competent at governing.

and in the context of the argument from McCain's camp...that Palins "executive experience" as governor is something to be lauded and regarded as competency for VP is wrong.

I say it is wrong because we have no data to support that her governorship led to competent leadership which in turn led to positive executive experience which will lead to her being able to step in as President in case McCain can't do the job. She says she is Anti-Lobbyist (she has lobbyist ties) Anti-Washington (she has engaged in email shenanigans like GWB) Pro-Reform (earmarks nuff said) She is saying all of these things but they all ring hollow because her actions contradict her words.

You don't gain positive and useful "executive experience" by being incompetent at ones position to boost your value as a candidate. Unless you want to say you did everything wrong as governor, and based upon that "executive experience" you think you can do everything right as VEEP.

I want to see what she has done to earn her "executive experience" label which would then imho earn her the right to say she is competent to do the job.

Right now we are being asked to take it on face value. And imho that means the GOP is trying to pull a fast one over all of us, and I don?t like that. Palin hasn't taken questions from anyone for almost 2 weeks!!! (I sound like a broken record) If this was Obama he would be getting shredded by the GOP.

And please lets not try and turn the tables and say Obama does not have experience either blah blah blah. You know what? I am not voting for Obama because of his experience as a community organizer or a Senator. I will vote for him because he lines up better with my individual feelings on important issues such as Health Care, Education, the Economy, Foreign Policy, the War, Family, Abortion, Supreme Court Justices, and I am sure there are others but my list is getting too long :)
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
106
Originally posted by: daniel49
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: OrByte
SO, is this really from you or is this an email you got?

seriously I'm curious.

Even if it were from an email, would it make it any less valid?

yes because it would be deceitful to state at the beginning of the OP that "I am from Alaska" and then copy and paste a chainletter.

you know its happened before. :)

you mean like J Peytons pasted email?

he didnt state that it was HIS email did he?

how was he deceitful?
 

Apple Of Sodom

Golden Member
Oct 7, 2007
1,808
0
0
Originally posted by: Pens1566
Originally posted by: Apple Of Sodom
Originally posted by: Pens1566

Uh, she actually kept the money ....

Yes. Well, she kept it for the state. She didn't cash a check for herself. Although, since she kept the money and spent it on other projects, it isn't really earmarked money, is it?

I know she didn't keep it for herself. :cookie:


Do you honestly think that it's ok to keep the money and use it???? And isn't it true that some of the money was used to build/improve the roads leading right up to where the bridge would have been?? How is that not a waste of our tax dollars??

Palin has kicked around the idea of building the bridge using Alaska's money. I think we would have to vote. At any rate, I don't know enough about federal funding to answer the question.

I feel that, if Congress gave her the money for a bridge, then we said "No, it is out of control" and Congress didn't ask for the money back, yes. We could use that money elsewhere. It wasn't wasted.

Building roads up to where the bridge will be...eh. I dunno about that. I guess if we do build the bridge (we certainly won't now!) then it isn't wasted.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
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Originally posted by: Vic
Who cares? Should McCain win and manage to live another 4 years the only thing Palin will be doing as VP is cutting ribbons at openings.

fixed :)