A Nazi Link to the WWII Memorial?

[RussianSoldier]

Member Jun 20th 0:35 AM
This is taken from US News.
As a Lithuanian Jew, Si Frumkin was forced into a German slave labor camp in 1944 at age 13. With his father, he worked for Philipp Holozmann, a German construction firm building a factory to assemble airplanes for Hitler's Lutwaffee. Conditions were brutal. The plant ran 24/7. Food was meager. Overseers were cruel. His father died from hunger. So Frumkin was aghast to learn recently that an American construction firm with ties to Holzmann had won the $56 million contract to build the controversial World War II memorial on the national Mall....

this is just a small part taken from US News.

 

[RipRidah]

<< J.A. Jones, Incorporated of Charlotte, North Carolina ? along with a Maryland company -- will build the memorial on the National Mall. More than 20 years ago, J.A. Jones was bought by the German construction company Philipp Holzmann, A.G. Holzmann is one of thousands of German companies involved in an effort to repay Nazi-era slave and forced laborers. A Holzmann spokesman says J.A. Jones is an independent company that shouldn't be blamed for the actions of its parent company more than half a century ago. Holzmann has no direct role in the building of the monument. >>



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[Zach]

So 55+ years after the end of the Axis powers, you still think a company that existed then is a Nazi entity?

 

[kintama]

Everybody has to make money somehow! There are alot of companies and countrys that were affiliated with the Nazis. Does that mean that we should not visit or buy from them now?

 

[Doctorweir]

Uh, Philip Holzmann is completely bankrupt...will just be a matter of time until they have to declare it for the second time...the first time the german state supported them with $100 Mio...incredible by the way...just to increase popularity of the chancellor, 'cos otherwise 6000 workers had to be fired...nice work, socialist...

 

[lowfatbaconboy]

dude BMW made friggin air planes for hte friggin Lutwaffee but when forced to make non war time things they started with car engines and such

are ya gona say BMW is nazish?

 

[Amused]

Yep, and Mitsubishi made Japanese fighter planes in WWII. So what???

When are the sins of the fathers no longer used to punish the child???

Get OVER it. Yes, the Holocaust happened, and we should always remember it so that it may never happen again. However, when are we through punishing the children of those who brought it on?

 

[RussianSoldier]

bmw made nazi planes, so what? yeah, so waht? they're not making a memorial to WWII vetrans!

 

[rudder]

and don't forget, we fought against the Chinese in Korea. So take everything in your house that has a &quot;made in China&quot; sticker and burn it.

 

[Amused]

<< bmw made nazi planes, so what? yeah, so waht? they're not making a memorial to WWII vetrans! >>



Who cares if they did? Personally, I think that would be a bit of poetic justice. However, seeing as how NONE of the original owners of the company are still with it, the company's past is irrelevant.

The Nazi hunts need to stop. Black balling companies who may have distant relationships to companies that existed during WWII Germany in name only is ridiculous.

 

[shiner]

<< When are the sins of the fathers no longer used to punish the child??? >>



I've been asking the same thing a lot here recently. Way back in 1921 there was a race riot here in Tulsa. Over the last few years there has been both a local and a state commission studying it and trying to find out exactly what happened which I think is a good idea. Now that the study is over certain members are demanding reparations from the state govt., local govt., and surviving white businesses that were around at the time. Now...tell me....

1. Why do these people that weren't even alive when the race riot happened entitled to $ of some sort?
2. What good will giving them money do? If anything by tax $ and private businesses being forced to be given you are going to create resentment towards the people receiving reparations.

Same thing goes for the Japanese that are wanting $ for their ancestors being put in camps during WWII here in the U.S. Was it the right thing to do? Probably not but you have to take into account the time and circumstances that were happening during that period.

Now...as for the German companies. They were nationalized during WWII for the most part and were forced to do work for the Nazi regime. Should we punish BMW, Messerschmidt, VW, etc... for building war machines? If so then why not punish Honda, Mitsubishi, Kawasaki, etc... for their part in WWII? So what...those companies did what they had to do during the war. It's not different than what Boeing, Lockeheed, GM, etc... did here. Well....except for the fact that we won.

Russian Soldier....if you really want to get angry and bent out of shape about something....how about getting angry about the fact that Joseph Stalin murdered between 6-10 million of his own people?

 

[syzygy]

the nazi hunts will stop when all the existing nazis are dead.
there are two issues here, with some overlap.

i think companies that were contracted by the nazis bear moral
responsibility for their willing agreements and should provide
some kind of reparation to any survivors and to the public-at-large.
this may be a formal apology or monied payments to survivors.

i cannot understand how anyone would allow the few surviving
nazis to exist with the kind of peace their victims were
deprived of. the nazis murdered anyone, young or old, and
we should remember that when we look at them now in their
lean years.

 

[RussianSoldier]

i never said we should punish any company that was former nazi or had ties to nazi germany, i simply posted an arcticle from US News.

 

[Helpless]

i think companies that were contracted by the nazis bear moral responsibility for their willing agreements and should provide some kind of reparation to any survivors and to the public-at-large.




...sort of like the reparations we give the Native Americans, right?

 

[JJJAllTheWay]

I think it is time to forgive the past. We should move on from it.

 

[shiner]

<< i cannot understand how anyone would allow the few surviving to exist with the kind of peace their victims were deprived of. >>



Many of the surviving Nazis were simple soldiers during the war. Most of the higher ups/decision makers were put on trial and executed at Nuremberg. Should we be punsihing some guy and making his life a living hell right now just because he served in the German Army during WWII? True there are some that are still alive that served in concentration camps but they were just there following orders and it wasn't like they had much of a choice. The people that should be punished are the ones that made the decisions to murder the Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, etc... not the common soldier who was there because he was forced to be.

 

[syzygy]

so if the native americans don't receive any reparations, then nobody should. brilliant.
close the u.n. don't bother with human rights. why ? because we ignored the native americans.

don't the native americans lord over semi-autonomous regions within the united states.

don't assume the common soldier was there because they were forced. many were gung-ho
volunteers who reveled in the racial ideology and towed the party line. they believed they were inherently superior and followed hitler on their march to an imagined world conquest. eventually the realities of the conflict destroyed their utopian visions, but by then they had committed their own personal atrocities in honor of der fuhrer.

additionally, in a book published a few years ago, 'hitler's willing executioners', many of the avowed nazi loyalists and sympathizers were paramilitary yokels who stirred the feeding frenzy on defenseless peoples with hitler's imprimatur.

 

[uncouth]

<< Stalin murdered between 6-10 million of his own people >>



I think that kind of number is very conservative compared to the actual number dead.
Thats perhaps how many people were killed by Lenin when he was in power. Stalin reigned over Russia for a much longer period of time and, to put it simply, is more infamous because he had the time to kill lots of people.
Throughout Russian history leaders eventually aspire to absolute power. To maintain power they tend to exert it by forcing fear through attrocities and brutalities.
&quot;Absolute Power Corupts Absolutely&quot; is a phrase that fits Russian government perfectly

 

[Doboji]

actually we're seeing now that Russian deaths because of stalin are numbering somewhere around 29 million....

But as a jew I've had to face some serious issues related to different products made by companies involved in Nazi germanies attempted destruction of my people.

Gillete for example.. yeah Mach3.... nice razors... this company played an integral roll in the production of the gas, and in construction of the gas chambers...

But I hafta realize that these companies are really different companies than they were during the Nazi regime... and as such I cannot rightfully boycott or protest these companies... perhaps it is even fitting that this company be involved in the erection of the monument.

-Max

 

[AaronP]

Hell, IBM made computing machines for the Nazi's before we declared war.