A must read...

[PrinceofWands]

Are We Failing Our Geniuses?

Seriously, one of the BEST pieces to be published in my lifetime. I urge everyone to carefully read the article and honestly think about what they're saying. This has been a black mark against nearly all education systems since the beginning of organized schooling.

When I was about six or so I started to actively learn about intelligence and education. It's remained a focus throughout my life. I was one of those they talk about in the article...failing out of school totally despite an IQ in the 99.9999th percentile, just because of a system totally incapable of dealing with kids like me. In high school I vowed to become a teacher so that I could be a resource for others like me. I decided that even if I could never fix the system maybe I could help others fight through it with some measure of success.

In college this has transitioned into seeking not only my education and endorsement area degrees, but soon my psychology degree with emphasis on cognitive and developmental functions as related to education - all with the goal of helping gifted kids reach their maximum potential in school. I have focused my Master's research and thesis on exceptional intelligences and how best to help them within the school system. I have spent many long nights working to develop the best possible gifted programs, hopefully to someday contribute to a new national standard. This article is the first accessible and reasonable foray into my passions that I've come across, and a much needed wake-up call for all.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Intelligence is labeled as "elitism" these days. Talk about a word we need to take back... How the hell did elite come to have a negative connotation?

 

[Jeff7]

I'll have to read all of this later, it sounds interesting, and depressing. I was rather bored by school, and standardized testing taught me virtually nothing. It was all simplistic memorization. Vocabulary tests were a joke. 10 words per week. I could pass the test (all simple matching) by remembering the wording of each definition.
But I also had the naive idea that adults were in control, and they knew what they were doing, so I just went along with it. On a scale of aggressive, assertive, and passive, I was somewhere below passive. I knew I was young and inexperienced, I knew that I didn't have all the information required to make an informed decision about much of anything, and so I "knew" that I wasn't in any position to make any decisions about anything at all important.

Skipping ahead wasn't ever presented to me as an option, and I never asked about it, because I perceived it as being outside my jurisdiction.
I was on a track to be the sort whom governments love - obey.....obey. Fortunately, after two years of community college (still just following the track laid for me by others, not making my own decisions), I got a job, and started picking up some good old cynicism. With it came the shedding of some of some more of that naiveté. I think it was as late as high school that I finally started to see things like rampant government corruption. Until then, I'd always (seriously) believed that police were good, upstanding people, the Marines were all absolutely flawless soldiers, and that the government was there to serve and protect the citizenry. It wasn't pleasant learning that the world was far less efficient and "nice" than I'd though.

More later. Got to get back to getting ready to move outta this house.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Well, to be honest, the article emphasizes 'skipping ahead' as the cure, and that's just not true at all. But it's better than what we see right now.

 

[imported_LoKe]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
Intelligence is labeled as "elitism" these days. Talk about a word we need to take back... How the hell did elite come to have a negative connotation?

Uh, no. Elitism is a label given to those who think they're more intelligent than everyone else.

EDIT: Hmm, perhaps I'm wrong. Elitism seems to be people who are proud of being of a higher intelligence.

 

[esun]

I'd definitely agree that schools pander to the lowest common denominator. I was somewhat lucky in that I was able to get around certain limitations of my schools (I was advanced in math, and in junior high I was allowed to drive to the high school for a 7AM math class, then drive back for a regular day at my junior high starting at 8AM). I wasn't as gifted as those in the article, but even for people just a little bit ahead, it can be a real burden to find classes to take (e.g. I finished our high school's math curriculum, covering up to second semester calculus, and had to take community college classes after that).

I think depending on your area, there are ways around schools that have set curricula and aren't open to grade skipping. Special cases are always a problem, but I think blaming the failure of high-IQ individuals on our school system is a bit unfair. Obviously, IQ isn't everything, and even if they can't skip grades, that isn't an excuse for becoming a dropout. Having said that, I agree we could do more to help them, and a big part of that is flexibility in grades. This is akin to the argument of the drinking age, driving age, gambling age, etc. We base many measures of intelligence and maturity on age, when in fact we see vast differences in each of those areas for people that are the same age! It just makes no sense, but as with drinking laws, people in education somehow view age as the indicator of intelligence rather than the student's actual potential.

 

[jagec]

You have an IQ in the 99.9999th percentile, and you majored in psychology?

 

[Oceandevi]

I read novels throughout my school days, never did homework and had horrible grades... does this mean I am a genius?

 

[SirStev0]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
Intelligence is labeled as "elitism" these days. Talk about a word we need to take back... How the hell did elite come to have a negative connotation?

 

[Flyback]

I met at least two dozen people during my time at college telling me they were above "gifted" and into the realm of Friedrich fucking Nietzsche while still in their single digits. Yet they "failed out" because they were simply "bored" and blame the system for them not having their own annus mirabilis. The Good Will Hunting angle gets real old after a while.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: jagec
You have an IQ in the 99.9999th percentile, and you majored in psychology?

My first undergrad was history, with a minor in poli-sci. Now I'm doing my MA in education and will eventually have enough for my bs's in chem and math. Then I'll officially do the MS in psych (right now it's just been elective coursework). There's actually quite a few other degrees I'll probably pick up after that, but they're not a priority. I don't really care about chem or math, but it's super easy for me and because of the shortage of teachers endorsed in those areas I get all my expenses paid plus some, and am pretty much guaranteed placement as soon as I'm licensed. Once I get my foot in the door then I'll start working on transferring into a history or social studies position. My dream job would be philosophy, drama, psychology, etc teacher...but those are almost things of the past in public high school now so it's career suicide to only have that as an option.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Flyback
I met at least two dozen people during my time at college telling me they were above "gifted" and into the realm of Friedrich fucking Nietzsche while still in their single digits. Yet they "failed out" because they were simply "bored" and blame the system for them not having their own annus mirabilis. The Good Will Hunting angle gets real old after a while.

Truth is seldom as we wish it to be. Not that I'd support their stories without actual proof of course, but it really does happen a LOT more than most people realize. If it weren't so there wouldn't be a TIME article about it.

 

[TallBill]

Meh, I was 99% percentile and "gifted" but far far from being a super genious. I still managed to almost fail out of high school, but it was my own damn fault.

 

[OdiN]

Failing out of school, have a 99 Percentile IQ....yet you're getting all these degrees in college?

Shens.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: OdiN
Failing out of school, have a 99 Percentile IQ....yet you're getting all these degrees in college?

Shens.

Why? What does failing school have to do with intelligence? What does college have to do with high school?

Even Einstein struggled in school. Grades aren't given for intelligence, or knowledge, or ability. They're given for following rules, attendance, attitude, and achievement. If you yourself enrolled today in a 6th grade remedial math course you would fail if you didn't go to class, or didn't do your homework. It's just that simple.

Similarly high school and college classes are NOTHING alike. High school is social cliques, rule following, attendance based, homework oriented, geared towards the average, etc. College is independent, free-form, knowledge based, project oriented, geared towards maximizing potential, etc. People of certain personality types do better in the first, while others do better in the second.

If you carefully read the article it illustrates perfectly everything I'm talking about here, and supports that it is ABSOLUTELY happening much more than you'd imagine.

 

[OdiN]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: OdiN
Failing out of school, have a 99 Percentile IQ....yet you're getting all these degrees in college?

Shens.

Why? What does failing school have to do with intelligence? What does college have to do with high school?

Even Einstein struggled in school. Grades aren't given for intelligence, or knowledge, or ability. They're given for following rules, attendance, attitude, and achievement. If you yourself enrolled today in a 6th grade remedial math course you would fail if you didn't go to class, or didn't do your homework. It's just that simple.

Similarly high school and college classes are NOTHING alike. High school is social cliques, rule following, attendance based, homework oriented, geared towards the average, etc. College is independent, free-form, knowledge based, project oriented, geared towards maximizing potential, etc. People of certain personality types do better in the first, while others do better in the second.

If you carefully read the article it illustrates perfectly everything I'm talking about here, and supports that it is ABSOLUTELY happening much more than you'd imagine.

I'm very intelligent as well. While I did not like the fact that in HS you had to do homework instead of just learning in your own way, and had to follow certain rules, that was what was required so that was what was done. If you don't do homework or show up to class just because you don't want to or feel you don't need to, and fail, then that's your own fault.

Many professors in college had attendance and homework requirements as well. I still didn't like it, but that's what was required so that's what was done.

Wailing about crying that you're too smart for homework so you don't do it then complaining about failing and saying that you failed because you're so intelligent is ridiculous.

Maybe you aren't intelligent. Maybe you're just smart.

 

[Cogman]

lol, people that say the are intelligent and the proceed to fail in college, school. are really unintelligent if you ask me. Who freaking cares if you can memorize everything you read in an instant if you arn't smart enough to mark b on your homework because it is "tedious".

Honestly, I don't by into the "I have a high IQ therefor I'm Smarter then all ya all" Intelligences isn't the ability to score high on a test, it is the ability to apply the knowledge that you have if you can't do that then you have no right to claim a superior intelligence.

One of my roommates in college told me something like "Yeah I'm a freaking genius and I got bad grades in High school just because I didn't really care. Now Ive filled my schedule with easy classes so that I can get a scholarship to pay for school." Well, I had a much more demanding schedule then he did, and guess who ended up with better grades? In fact he ended up complaining about how hard his history class was and that the teachers where ridiculous. Well, its always someone else's fault when you don't do well, isn't it.

One last note, I know that intelligence is not always reflected by grades. In my calculus class the only other kid that took it at the time did better in the class then I did. However, he was always asking me how to do stuff and how to figure things out. In the end, I knew how to do calculus (scored a 4 on the AB exam thing at the end) and he got a good grade (he scored a 2). I fall into the lazy intelligent genre, but man I can't stand people that fail just because they can't motivate themselves enough to do a tedious task. Guess what, in real life and real jobs a lot of the times you will have to do things that are really tedious and it doesn't matter how smart you are, if you don't do it then you get fired. There are very few jobs out there that have an exception to this.

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

It's not very intelligent to say you're intelligent and fail out of college.

 

[StageLeft]

I have substantially above average intelligence (and modesty ) but was consistently near the bottom of the class for all my years in school (until final year when I decided I had to have good grades and then got them!). There are many factors at play from inappropriate schooling to life outside of school to being ugly or unathletic or whatever else that would see a child with above-average potential doing worse than average. Of course, intelligence alone doesn't mean a kid should be put with older ones. I know a kid who's really smart but socially inept and his parents don't seem to see that as a problem, but his father, who's also smart and socially inept, is having problems progressing further in his career due to his patent inability to communicate properly with others. If they encourage their kid's brains at the expense of social skills (these aren't mutually exclusive, but could be given a lower priority), he will not end up as a better person even if he manages to get a university degree at 18.

It's not very intelligent to say you're intelligent and fail out of college.

Well, think of it like a fast computer running a buggy program. Software is more important than the program. A genius who lacks discipline and common sense and social skills may be very frustrated in life and unable to adapt properly. These people are liable to become pretentious, dismissive dick wads who will belittle all others' intelligence and yet others have the family lives, job life, etc. that the "super smart dumbass" cannot get.

 

[mugs]

I don't have much respect for someone who has the means and ability to succced in school on their own then blames the system for their own personal failure.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I have substantially above average intelligence (and modesty ) but was consistently near the bottom of the class for all my years in school (until final year when I decided I had to have good grades and then got them!). There are many factors at play from inappropriate schooling to life outside of school to being ugly or unathletic or whatever else that would see a child with above-average potential doing worse than average. Of course, intelligence alone doesn't mean a kid should be put with older ones. I know a kid who's really smart but socially inept and his parents don't seem to see that as a problem, but his father, who's also smart and socially inept, is having problems progressing further in his career due to his patent inability to communicate properly with others. If they encourage their kid's brains at the expense of social skills (these aren't mutually exclusive, but could be given a lower priority), he will not end up as a better person even if he manages to get a university degree at 18.

Maybe we should just pluck the uber smart and keep them isolated in a state of hyper-intelligence.

By the way, most of the children in that article didn't impress me. There are much much smarter children out there. The 12 year old who can disect Latin for example.

 

[Flyback]

Originally posted by: mugs
I don't have much respect for someone who has the means and ability to succced in school on their own then blames the system for their own personal failure.

Exactly.

If they have the means and ability, I would hope they don't lack the gall to Get It Done. That is ultimately what separates those that do and accomplish (inventors, discoverers, etc.) and those who "could have but weren't cuddled enough". If they can't help themselves what is to say they ever will in the future?

The cream rises to the top. Look at how many successful Nobel laureates, major scientists, inventors and other people who have gone through the public school system (albeit in yesteryear, but still at a pace that coddles the lowest common denominator). Intelligence finds a way--either through the nuturing of their own parents or through their own means and investigations into the world outside of the classroom (Richard Feynman went to learn calculus on his own using library books at a young age of around 12 or 13 IIRC).

Potential is worthless without drive, and that comes from within.

 

[Viper GTS]

There has to be some balance, frankly the girl in that article needs some modesty slapped into her. I took my first college class when I was 12 but I never had that attitude & someone would have smacked me if I did.

The public school system was an absolute waste of my time. I tested at a 7th grade reading level when I entered public schools for 2nd grade. Four school years later when I left (after 5th grade) I tested at 7th grade again.

The public education system HAS to cater to the common students, it's the place where the money does the most good. If parents decide that is not good enough for their child they have other options.

Viper GTS

 

[daveymark]

just another article about kids who have "potential" and others who blame the lack of success on everyone but the kid. meh.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Flyback

Originally posted by: mugs
I don't have much respect for someone who has the means and ability to succced in school on their own then blames the system for their own personal failure.

Exactly.

If they have the means and ability, I would hope they don't lack the gall to Get It Done. That is ultimately what separates those that do and accomplish (inventors, discoverers, etc.) and those who "could have but weren't cuddled enough". If they can't help themselves what is to say they ever will in the future?

The cream rises to the top. Look at how many successful Nobel laureates, major scientists, inventors and other people who have gone through the public school system (albeit in yesteryear, but still at a pace that coddles the lowest common denominator). Intelligence finds a way--either through the nuturing of their own parents or through their own means and investigations into the world outside of the classroom (Richard Feynman went to learn calculus on his own using library books at a young age of around 12 or 13 IIRC).

Potential is worthless without drive, and that comes from within.

So, essentially, you would have us keep a system that is sub-optimal for finding a way to integrate those geniuses into society?

The argument isn't that the geniuses deserve better treatment, it's that society is better off if we can find ways to increase the chances of these geniuses becoming productive members of society. If we can find an environment for them that encourages them to engage in society rather than a system that essentially tells them, "you're smart, so you'll figure out how to put up with us screwing you over" (as we have now), then things will improve for everyone.

ZV