Ok I'm asking for the opinions of the more mature people here (read: the older [& more mature] you are, the better) because personally, taking advice from someone my own age (early 20s) is like the blind leading the blind. Ok well i'm also asking that you please leave your age with your response so its easier to gauge where you're coming from. Ok this problem shouldnt really be a problem but the logical mind is incapacitated at the moment, so i'd appreciate any feedback from others who have a working logical mind. Problem is that a (female) friend who's 500 miles away decides to come visit in august of this year and sparks fly between us when she's here. Well ok thats actually the situation. Problem is that she's already attached. Because I already knew this, i kind of kept things somewhat platonic. She goes back home after the weekend and i try to forget about her but can't. As things turn out, she calls me the next day and tells me she can't stop thinking about me and that she wants to break up with her boyfriend because he doesnt treat her right and she didnt know any better til now. Long story short, we start going beyond "friends", and i fly up to see her the next month. And then "cheating" becomes official in every sense of the word, but she still hasn't broken up with this loser because she can't make up her mind anymore. (shes been with him for over 2 years) My own sense of ethics tells me that being with her when she's attached is outright wrong, but the mind is sort of being clouded here because i love her. (rationalization) It would be obviously wrong if I was with someone else and with her, but this is the other side. Is it still wrong for me to be with her if i'm single and she's the one that's attached? Immediate problem here is that she's coming down here again in three weeks (The Marine Corps Ball) and I'm contemplating whether it's morally and ethically wrong for anything to happen when she's here. One side (the older, more mature side, i presume) says "yes its wrong" (because shes with her bf) and the other side says "no" because "I'm single...i love her...she wants to be with me when she's here..and what the hell do i care about her bf.." One last thing: In the long run, she and i know we will never work out because we have very different values. (ie she's not having a problem with cheating on her bf, obviously) What do you think?
A moral and ethical dilemma for the "old timers"...
- Thread starter DJFuji
- Start date
If she'd cheat on the other guy with you she'd cheat on you with someone else. Find someone else, you don't need that. By the way I'm 22, so take that as you will.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
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So lemme see... She doesn't want to be with this guy forever and she isn't married to him... OK so what's the problem? Yeah distance is one, and yeah she's still with him. Well she is going to have to work out how to dump him. Tough, but better for her to do it now than later. Just try not to get too committed to her until she changes things on her end. For now, enjoy her company. You aren't doing anything wrong. Keep you head, and you do ok. Better to try than to kick yourself later wondering "what if"
Hayabusa Rider
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Oh yeah and for those who get caught up in the "cheating" thing...
A. She isn't married and yeah I say it makes a difference. She can walk away. She just has motivation now.
B. Be great if everything in life went sequentially, but sometimes you cant have things in the ideal order. e.g getting out of a relationship before you meet someone you are really interested in. Remember for a variety of reasons, most(not all) women will work on a bad relationship for years if they think they have a reason. Doesnt mean she will cheat on you too. Depends on the people and situation. My concern is if she chickens out and you get hurt. Thats what I mean by being careful. I know its easy to say, but hey I'm older and my experience is what you asked for
For what its worth
A. She isn't married and yeah I say it makes a difference. She can walk away. She just has motivation now.
B. Be great if everything in life went sequentially, but sometimes you cant have things in the ideal order. e.g getting out of a relationship before you meet someone you are really interested in. Remember for a variety of reasons, most(not all) women will work on a bad relationship for years if they think they have a reason. Doesnt mean she will cheat on you too. Depends on the people and situation. My concern is if she chickens out and you get hurt. Thats what I mean by being careful. I know its easy to say, but hey I'm older and my experience is what you asked for
For what its worth
Tell her she needs to figure out what she wants and thatyou aer going to give her the time & space to do that. Then leave her alone until she decides she wants to be with you instead of the 2-year old loser. You never know what will happen in the long run but you obviously know what doesn't feel right in the short term.
Good luck.
P.S. I'm over 40.
Good luck.
P.S. I'm over 40.
If she really feels that way for you she should break up with the other guy (and yes, she should have done it first, before you two got together). If she comes in three weeks and is still with him (i.e. she has not told him that it is over and acted accordingly) then you simply cannot trust her. Therefore, it would be unwise to "be" with her under those conditions.
The problem here, IMO, is that you are likely to get hurt. You guys really need to settle the question of whether she is with you or him soon. Her words to you mean little if she does not act on them. I've seen this type of thing many times. Often, the person "in between" is leading the other on and getting the best of both partners. However, she could also really have a hard time telling him and is really planning to do so. But she needs to take action.
I hope it is the latter and that things work out well for you
And yes, I am older and more experienced than you (sorry, no details )
The problem here, IMO, is that you are likely to get hurt. You guys really need to settle the question of whether she is with you or him soon. Her words to you mean little if she does not act on them. I've seen this type of thing many times. Often, the person "in between" is leading the other on and getting the best of both partners. However, she could also really have a hard time telling him and is really planning to do so. But she needs to take action.
I hope it is the latter and that things work out well for you
And yes, I am older and more experienced than you (sorry, no details
)I'm not so sure about lirion's comment that she'd cheat on you. Affairs of the heart, like this, are a case by case thing. You have to make a personal evaluation of her honesty to you. Because of your own reservations and her history, you already have good reasons to at least ask these questions of yourself.
The best answers can only come with time, so if you're willing to spend the time with her, you should make your personal feelings clear to her about the ethics involved. Her answers will give you some indication of where this relationship can go.
Before you get to any of that, you should first ask yourself if there is any practical chance the two of you will be able to deal with the distance issue. If that can't be worked out, the rest of it isn't worth dealing with. Flogging yourself over an impossible relationship is a waste of time. Be glad you got a good buzz out of it, and move on.
One more suggestion, not related to your original question -- Learn to put some spaces in your paragraphs. If you dont' stop it (writing like that) we'll go blind.
Me: A 60 year old kid.
The best answers can only come with time, so if you're willing to spend the time with her, you should make your personal feelings clear to her about the ethics involved. Her answers will give you some indication of where this relationship can go.
Before you get to any of that, you should first ask yourself if there is any practical chance the two of you will be able to deal with the distance issue. If that can't be worked out, the rest of it isn't worth dealing with. Flogging yourself over an impossible relationship is a waste of time. Be glad you got a good buzz out of it, and move on.
One more suggestion, not related to your original question -- Learn to put some spaces in your paragraphs. If you dont' stop it (writing like that) we'll go blind.
Me: A 60 year old kid.
yup...point well taken. Which is why i know she and i will never work out. But aside from long term relationships...still the eternal question of ethics...
Azraele
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- Nov 5, 2000
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It sounds to me like you already know the answer to your question, you just want to hear it spoken by someone else. I think you ahd she need to have a long heart to heart, and you need to explain to her that you're uncomfortable with the situation. You know deep down seeing her as a g/f is wrong until she's broken things off with her current boyfriend. Try and put yourself in his shoes. How would you feel? Ask yourself why she is dragging the breakup out like this?
to the people who say they arent married:
that makes no difference. marriage is just a formality, a piece of official paper. a couple could be in love and live their lives out til they die without being married. i think this might be why the divorce rate is so high these days (over 50% in usa right?). people think getting married is a magical event that makes everything better. but it's not, it's the feelings you have for the person and the seriousness in which you treat the relationship whether married or not and your willingness to overcome your problems and make compromises as a couple. if someone doesn't like who they are dating, then break up first for christs sake! be an adult about it. there's not reason for cheating. cheating is a horrible thing, it can cause great long lasting pain to the person cheated on and even doom their future relationships, cause now they're defensive.
so she is a cheater, and don't forget, so are you cause it takes to two to cheat (unless you didn't know she had a bf). i see a failed relationship down the line for you two. things will be all rosy and great right now... and then two years later things will be less rosy and more "normal." this is when one of you two will be looking at other people again. and someone will probably cheat given past events already.
how do you avoid this from happening? i don't know. i am only 24 btw, so i guess my opinion won't count anyway.
that makes no difference. marriage is just a formality, a piece of official paper. a couple could be in love and live their lives out til they die without being married. i think this might be why the divorce rate is so high these days (over 50% in usa right?). people think getting married is a magical event that makes everything better. but it's not, it's the feelings you have for the person and the seriousness in which you treat the relationship whether married or not and your willingness to overcome your problems and make compromises as a couple. if someone doesn't like who they are dating, then break up first for christs sake! be an adult about it. there's not reason for cheating. cheating is a horrible thing, it can cause great long lasting pain to the person cheated on and even doom their future relationships, cause now they're defensive.
so she is a cheater, and don't forget, so are you cause it takes to two to cheat (unless you didn't know she had a bf). i see a failed relationship down the line for you two. things will be all rosy and great right now... and then two years later things will be less rosy and more "normal." this is when one of you two will be looking at other people again. and someone will probably cheat given past events already.
how do you avoid this from happening? i don't know. i am only 24 btw, so i guess my opinion won't count anyway.
Hayabusa Rider
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If marrige is just a formality, then for heavens sake don't do it. The high divorce rate is because two people didn't take the concept seriously BEFORE they did it. For them just paper,the ones that stay in there it means more than that.
<< that makes no difference. marriage is just a formality, a piece of official paper. a couple could be in love and live their lives out til they die without being married >>
And they NEVER totally commit to the other person. A Marriage shows everyone you are committed to each other....it shows to strangers that you are taken and not available. Anyother excuse is just playacting. Ask ANY kid that came from unmarried parents...it doesn't last.
The rest of the paragraph just shows your self-described immaturity and is nothing but justification for what you know is wrong.
She is probably not telling you or her boyfriend the truth and how many other times does she get laid just for fun?
With literally hundreds of incurable disease floating around it is just a matter of time...
Your whole life is about commitment...grow up....quick!
Harvey...sorry about the no spaces lol. Umm ok thanks for the replies, but apparently i should have been clearer in my original description. I already know things won't work out between us...i know for a FACT. So long term relationship is out of the question. It's hard because i still love her and she still loves me, but she also loves this other guy i think, and i know her well enough to know that long-term is out of the question for us.
I think i made the decision for her to stay with him more than she did, though. Because i told her point blank that things wouldnt work out between us because of the differences in the way we live our lives. I live by a different set of rules than she does. The only reason things happened between us last time was because the ethical question was in a gray area and i really thought we would be together by now. But i have come to the conclusion now that it would never work out.
Ok with that in mind, I probably am just looking for confirmation here. Like Rubix said, it takes two to cheat. And i DO know that she's with someone. I guess you could say this is like a 'fling.' Any other guy my age tells me that there's nothing wrong with this because it's HER that's attached...not me...and that i shouldn't worry about it. But this is a question for me because I'm trying to decide for myself if that's "right" or not.
I've already acknowledged the fact that i'm not going to be in a relationship with her. (long term, that is) But is it wrong for anything to happen while she's here? I suppose if i didnt love her or if this was my other friend asking me this question, the answer would be easy. Of course it's wrong if she's with someone already. But obviously i'm not thinking very clearly right now...
She'll be here in 3 weeks and i already know that it's going to be hard and that things might happen. But i think before she's here and clouding my judgement even more, i have to make a clear decision and stick by it. That decision...is what im contemplating.
P.S. i didnt mean for it to sound like i'm going to discount the opinions of some very mature 20-something people here...i just didnt want a 17 year old kid giving "wise advice."
P.P.S. I've known her for about 6 years now and before we were together, we were friends so she told me everything. She's not the type to cheat on someone; this is the first time she's cheated on ANYONE, so im sure its confusing for her too. I think it would be different if she went around sleeping with everyone because then I'D be turned off by it and it wouldn't even be an issue.
I think i made the decision for her to stay with him more than she did, though. Because i told her point blank that things wouldnt work out between us because of the differences in the way we live our lives. I live by a different set of rules than she does. The only reason things happened between us last time was because the ethical question was in a gray area and i really thought we would be together by now. But i have come to the conclusion now that it would never work out.
Ok with that in mind, I probably am just looking for confirmation here. Like Rubix said, it takes two to cheat. And i DO know that she's with someone. I guess you could say this is like a 'fling.' Any other guy my age tells me that there's nothing wrong with this because it's HER that's attached...not me...and that i shouldn't worry about it. But this is a question for me because I'm trying to decide for myself if that's "right" or not.
I've already acknowledged the fact that i'm not going to be in a relationship with her. (long term, that is) But is it wrong for anything to happen while she's here? I suppose if i didnt love her or if this was my other friend asking me this question, the answer would be easy. Of course it's wrong if she's with someone already. But obviously i'm not thinking very clearly right now...
She'll be here in 3 weeks and i already know that it's going to be hard and that things might happen. But i think before she's here and clouding my judgement even more, i have to make a clear decision and stick by it. That decision...is what im contemplating.
P.S. i didnt mean for it to sound like i'm going to discount the opinions of some very mature 20-something people here...i just didnt want a 17 year old kid giving "wise advice."
P.P.S. I've known her for about 6 years now and before we were together, we were friends so she told me everything. She's not the type to cheat on someone; this is the first time she's cheated on ANYONE, so im sure its confusing for her too. I think it would be different if she went around sleeping with everyone because then I'D be turned off by it and it wouldn't even be an issue.
Ok I'm 52, married 27 years with 6 kids. What you two are experiencing is called "passion" and it is no doubt a wonderful experience, for the moment. If you two get together the passion will diminish and maybe go away, maybe not, but it will diminish. Females do the thing for more reasons than fun, and you will learn this eventually. It's just the nature of things. With this in mind just ask yourself this question, " do I want to quit sooner or later?" because this "wonderful" experience will not last forever. It will change. Into what I dont know and would not pretend to predict. Good luck.
<< And they NEVER totally commit to the other person. A Marriage shows everyone you are committed to each other.... >>
I am 31 years old, married with two kids.
First of all, Tominator, that is simply not the truth anymore, getting a divorce is very easy today and the commitment that marriage used to be isn't there anymore.
I have two divorced friends, one of them was together with his wife to be for seven years before they got married, during that time i would say that they were very commited, within one year after their marriage she was unfaithful to him and he through her out.
Would you say that she was more commited before the marriage or after? Of course, married or not, she would still have been unfaithful but the marriage did not increase her commitment.
DJ Fuji, i am going to be as straighforward as i can, i think she is a total loooooser for what she has done, it was probably not the first time and i am pretty sure it was not the last either.
I think you made a mistake too.
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