A Medium-High Gamer asks: Should I wait for Sandy Bridge?

[Raswan]

(104.99) MoBo:GIGABYTE GA-P55-USB3 LGA 1156 Intel P55 USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128425

(208.99) CPU:Intel Core i5-760 Lynnfield 2.8GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80605I5760
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115067

(79.99) Power Supply: CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139005

(249.99) Video Card:SAPPHIRE 100314SR Radeon HD 6870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with Eyefinity
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102909

(124.99) RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231311

So I put together this possible build as an upgrade to my current CD2 system a couple of weeks ago, and aimed for just after Black Friday to pull the trigger in the hopes some deals would happen on these or like-components (btw thanks everyone, for the help in putting it together!). I already bought a 27-inch ASUS monitor, and plan on gaming at 1920X1080.

But as I read more an more about Sandy Bridge, I’m wondering if maybe I shouldn’t just tie up the impatient freak inside of me and wait for Q1 next year. Specifically, I was reading Anand’s late August preview of the new architecture, and the results it would immediately have for, the way I understood it, mid-high gamers like myself. Apparently, and feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, the new i5 “replacing” the current 760 will be either the i5 2500k (for OCing) or regular i5 2500; in the case of the 2500K, which I see myself getting if price points are as Anand suggested they would be, it would be the “same” price as the current 760 but see improvement of 23-30%. And it will be shipping immediately, with higher end components (like the ~$550 cpu) not shipping til Q2 or Q3.

Even though I’m getting anxious to play some Civ5 and SC2, which I can’t play right now, it seems short-sighted not to wait the 4 extra weeks and get a system that will be arguably significantly faster (especially given the fact that historically I only upgrade every 2-3 years). Plus in the socket 1155 I’d have a mobo that wouldn’t be impossible to reuse in the future, as unlikely as that always turns out to be. So operating under the previous assumptions for the new Sandy Bridge, I see three options ((side note: are prices likely to drop on the current i5 760 when Sandy Bridge lands, or is that such an impossible thing to know that I shouldn’t even worry about it? That might cause a scenario four…)):

1) Pull the trigger with no intention of paying attention to Sandy Bridge until my next upgrade, sometime around the middle of who-the-hell-knows. Get a gaming rig that everyone says plays nicely, and I can even OC the 760 and probably be perfectly happy, barring the cpu-envy that will inevitably develop.

2) Buy all of the components, because, after all, the cpu and mobo are only part of the system, and plan for an upgrade to an i5 2500k and a p67 mobo in a year, possibly even when the release of the high-end components drops cpu prices on them a little.

3) Put my head down, save a little more money during the next 6 weeks, and plan for an upgrade in early January that includes the Sandy Bridge cpu and mobo (possibly use the time to save for dual 6870s, and have a system even more incredible? Or are dual 6870s really overkill for someone getting an i5? I guess this would also apply to Option 2).

?4?) Prices drop dramatically on the i5 760 after Sandy Bridge releases, so much so that I can’t help but save myself the money and buy it instead of a 2500k?

I realize that’s a lot to deal with, but I’m betting there are other people out there right now trying to decide if they should wait even if they aren’t the type to typically spend ~500 bucks on a processor and ~600 on xfire or sli. I really appreciate any input people can give as Black Friday approaches and I have to buckle down and make a decision. Thanks!

 

[muskie32]

IF you can, wait.
Or if you want to build right now "like i did" buy now Simple

 

[Lonyo]

The vast majority of games aren't particularly CPU limited.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3871/the-sandy-bridge-preview-three-wins-in-a-row/11

All of these tests are below your resolution, and using a faster clocked CPU (3.1GHz vs 2.8GHz).
There still isn't a huge difference, and they are mostly games which are more CPU than GPU dependent, which isn't the norm.
The Batman: AA test is probably most representative of 90% of real gaming situations, where there is marginal difference.

 

[mfenn]

If you need it now, buy it now. If you don't need it now, don't buy it now. There is always something better just around the corner, so you can play this waiting game forever.

The only thing that should factor into this decision is how much enjoyment will you get gaming over the holiday season.

 

[Raswan]

Well, that's not very helpful Yes, I realize that something *better* is always around a corner, but it's not every day Intel is releasing a whole new architecture that hits right around the time I upgrade.

So I guess I'll revise my question: Is my assessment of the situation at least correct? If I decide to wait, I don't want to find out that the chip I think they're releasing is actually not going out until later.

Also, how smart is it to jump on a completely new cpu/mobo the month it releases? Do AMD and Intel and mobo producers have a history of needing kinks ironed out of brand new stuff? I don't want to be messing around with getting, I don't know, RAM to be recognized or asinine stuff like that, esp. when I could be playing as you said mfenn over break and getting some sweet sweet enjoyment.

I didn't post this thread for empty platitudes or hand-holding because I can't make a decision. Is anyone else in the same position? Are you waiting or going for it for some particular reason that is relevant to the rest of us? These are the questions I have...

 

[betasub]

Yes, you are likely to go through the early-adopter process of updating BIOS and drivers because the first-shipped boards will all come with v1.0. RAM should be nailed down because the same QDEC DDR3 standards apply.

As for "the chip I think they're releasing is actually not going out until later" - do you know something that Intel isn't telling us? They like their reputation for sticking by their announced release dates.

 

[Raswan]

Thanks for the info betasub. That's the kind of info I need to be taking into consideration. As for the other thing, no I don't know anything you don't. Everything I've read confirms a Q1 release, but having never been tuned in this closely to a release I want to make sure if I decide to wait it really is early January, and doesn't become March or something before I can get going.

 

[mfenn]

Well, that's not very helpful Yes, I realize that something *better* is always around a corner, but it's not every day Intel is releasing a whole new architecture that hits right around the time I upgrade.

So I guess I'll revise my question: Is my assessment of the situation at least correct? If I decide to wait, I don't want to find out that the chip I think they're releasing is actually not going out until later.

Also, how smart is it to jump on a completely new cpu/mobo the month it releases? Do AMD and Intel and mobo producers have a history of needing kinks ironed out of brand new stuff? I don't want to be messing around with getting, I don't know, RAM to be recognized or asinine stuff like that, esp. when I could be playing as you said mfenn over break and getting some sweet sweet enjoyment.

I didn't post this thread for empty platitudes or hand-holding because I can't make a decision. Is anyone else in the same position? Are you waiting or going for it for some particular reason that is relevant to the rest of us? These are the questions I have...

It's not an empty platitude. It is simple truth. Either Intel or AMD is going to release something new within 3 months of any given point. I fully believe that "need" (defined here as including "want") is the only factor in the decision-making process.

Anyway, yes there are generally kinks to be worked out, but usually mostly on the higher-end boards. The reasonable midrange stuff is generally solid.

 

[jaydee]

mfenn and I chronically disagree about this as a matter of opinion. Neither are "right or wrong", just difference of philosophy.

I would wait on the cpu/mobo, because a new architecture (that fits your needs and budget) is two months away. Something is always three months away, that's generally true, but not necessarily one that fits your requirements. The cpu you spec'd out now, is virtually the same cpu you would have spec'd out for this build at virtually the same price a whopping 14 months ago (i5-750 for ~$196 in early Sept 2009). That should tell you something. Also, you'll be buying something that will depreciate significantly within a few months (after practically no depreciation for more than a year). Think about that when considering buying Lynnfield now and upgrading in 1 year.


But I would buy the video card now and slap it in what you've got. You should be able to play Civ5 and SC2 pretty decently with a Radeon 6870 on C2D depending on your cpu clock speeds.

 

[Axon]

I just built myself a LAN rig using 1156 parts (mITX). A few reasons:

Sandy Bridge is better, but it won't affect any games I play (SC2, Civ 5, WoW, TF2). i5 750 @ 4.0 is a tremendous chip and will still scream two years from now or more. However, don't pay $200 for that thing. You can get it cheaper used or at Microcenter.

It is unlikely an mITX motherboard will be available at launch.

GPU power is not going to be substantially better or worse come SB, which is what matters for my LAN rig.

Resell market sucks. You never ever get value, as enthusiasts are generally cheap (or poor) and educated up to the second about every price and option for new components. Tack on losing $5-$10 bucks just to paypal (or even worse if you sell on ebay) and add in shipping fees and the hassle...who needs it? Even if you somehow sold the i5 750 for $190, you'd really be seeing $170 or so, maybe less.

Just my opinion as a card carrying "horrifically impatient SOB."

 

[Ayah]

What are you running right now anyways?

 

[jaydee]

I just built myself a LAN rig using 1156 parts (mITX). A few reasons:

Sandy Bridge is better, but it won't affect any games I play (SC2, Civ 5, WoW, TF2). i5 750 @ 4.0 is a tremendous chip and will still scream two years from now or more. However, don't pay $200 for that thing. You can get it cheaper used or at Microcenter.

It is unlikely an mITX motherboard will be available at launch.

.
.
.

Just my opinion as a card carrying "horrifically impatient SOB."

Absolutely agree with your decision. I would not advocate anyone wait on SandyBridge for a miniITX build, because there is not set timetable for those motherboards at this time. It could be Spring before we see one and will probably overpriced because it's the only one on the market for awhile. Not worth it in my opinion.

With the OP looking at an ATX build though, completely different story and I stand by my post above.

 

[Raswan]

mfenn and I chronically disagree about this as a matter of opinion. Neither are "right or wrong", just difference of philosophy.

I would wait on the cpu/mobo, because a new architecture (that fits your needs and budget) is two months away. Something is always three months away, that's generally true, but not necessarily one that fits your requirements. The cpu you spec'd out now, is virtually the same cpu you would have spec'd out for this build at virtually the same price a whopping 14 months ago (i5-750 for ~$196 in early Sept 2009). That should tell you something. Also, you'll be buying something that will depreciate significantly within a few months (after practically no depreciation for more than a year). Think about that when considering buying Lynnfield now and upgrading in 1 year.


But I would buy the video card now and slap it in what you've got. You should be able to play Civ5 and SC2 pretty decently with a Radeon 6870 on C2D depending on your cpu clock speeds.

Thanks for the input jaydee. As for what I've got right now, it's a conroe e6300 at 1.86, no overclock. That probably changes your recommendation, given that it is so godawful slow. So you think come January, there will be some decently priced mobos to match that cpu (~150) that aren't going to cause a lot of buggy problems for me?

Axon--don't have a microcenter nearby, and I'm leery of the used market. But if my ultimate aim were really trying to get that i5 at a great price, I'd probably just wait for SB to drop, on the assumption that will drop prices.

 

[Axon]

Roger. I've never had a problem with a single used part, just with people who keep shipping to my house even though I ask them to ship to my job. Siiiigh.

Be advised that very few games are CPU capped and modern CPUs are so good that you can hardly see a difference between one generation to the next (example: my e8500 still runs SC2, WoW, and Civ 5 as well as my i7 920 given the same GPU).

However, I think you're leaning towards waiting, so you might as well. SB will unquestionably be a better performer.

 

[jchu14]

Thanks for the input jaydee. As for what I've got right now, it's a conroe e6300 at 1.86, no overclock. That probably changes your recommendation, given that it is so godawful slow. So you think come January, there will be some decently priced mobos to match that cpu (~150) that aren't going to cause a lot of buggy problems for me?

Axon--don't have a microcenter nearby, and I'm leery of the used market. But if my ultimate aim were really trying to get that i5 at a great price, I'd probably just wait for SB to drop, on the assumption that will drop prices.

Why don't you buy the 6870 now and overclock your processor? That's one of the best overclocking C2D chips. You can probably get 2.5-3ghz with some vcore increase. Just make sure you buy a cooler that's compatible with both the 775 and the new socket (anyone know if 1155 and 1156 coolers will be cross-compatible?)

 

[betasub]

^ Not sure the old Conroe E6300 was that great an overclocker compared to the Core2Duo processors that followed on from it.

 

[Raswan]

Why don't you buy the 6870 now and overclock your processor? That's one of the best overclocking C2D chips. You can probably get 2.5-3ghz with some vcore increase. Just make sure you buy a cooler that's compatible with both the 775 and the new socket (anyone know if 1155 and 1156 coolers will be cross-compatible?)

The thought crossed my mind. But the plan when I upgrade is to put all the old stuff in a Thermaltake Soprano case I've got and recoup some cash (I know Axon, irony of ironies). I'd rather not mess with overclocking this one a) people are going to have a hard enough time buying a used system built by hand and not by Dell or whatever, and b) on the off chance that I really f something up. While I theoretically understand how to overclock and did some messing around with it when I first got this cpu (got it as you mention because it is a great overclocker, but school/laziness/fear all kept me from investing real time in it), I'm not exactly experienced. I know it seems especially stupid if I plan on trying to overclock my new cpu not to practice on an old one, but it's gonna take some real time investment (which isn't gonna happen until xmas break) before I feel comfortable enough to try.

 

[jaydee]

Thanks for the input jaydee. As for what I've got right now, it's a conroe e6300 at 1.86, no overclock. That probably changes your recommendation, given that it is so godawful slow. So you think come January, there will be some decently priced mobos to match that cpu (~150) that aren't going to cause a lot of buggy problems for me?

Definitely overclock that E6300. Check out the newegg reviews, lots of people getting 3Ghz with that chip. Not saying you will for sure, but it'd be a shock if you didn't get at least 2.5Ghz. Order your video card today. Like right now. Before you finish reading this post.

Ok, now that you're back, work on that cpu overclock (buy a cooler if necessary, the cost is negligible compared to what your spending on the rest of the system) and wait for the video card. Tell us how those games run. I'm guessing you'll be fairly pleased. At least enough to hold you over until January. BTW, you never told us what video card you're coming from.

To answer your latter question, yes, I expect $150 mobo's to exist in January that are bug-free. Motherboards have come a long way in initial quality in the past 10 years.

 

[Raswan]

Be advised that very few games are CPU capped and modern CPUs are so good that you can hardly see a difference between one generation to the next (example: my e8500 still runs SC2, WoW, and Civ 5 as well as my i7 920 given the same GPU).

However, I think you're leaning towards waiting, so you might as well. SB will unquestionably be a better performer.

I'll keep that in mind. Makes me think just doing it now might be the better plan, given what I've read performance-wise about the i5-760 with the games I want to play. No real sense in getting a cpu with 25% or whatever better performance if the games I'm gonna play aren't going to notice it.

What do you think about the idea of getting the i5-760, replacing that mobo I listed with one that will run xfire, and get dual 6870s to match? What I'm thinking is it's a more potent combo, especially if I overclock. Or is it stupid to run xfire with just an i5 and expect better performance (now/future)? I guess I don't know where the point of diminishing returns is with the i5 as a basis for cpu limiting gaming experience, if that makes sense. Anyone?

 

[Raswan]

Definitely overclock that E6300. Check out the newegg reviews, lots of people getting 3Ghz with that chip. Not saying you will for sure, but it'd be a shock if you didn't get at least 2.5Ghz. Order your video card today. Like right now. Before you finish reading this post.

Ok, now that you're back, work on that cpu overclock (buy a cooler if necessary, the cost is negligible compared to what your spending on the rest of the system) and wait for the video card. Tell us how those games run. I'm guessing you'll be fairly pleased. At least enough to hold you over until January. BTW, you never told us what video card you're coming from.

To answer your latter question, yes, I expect $150 mobo's to exist in January that are bug-free. Motherboards have come a long way in initial quality in the past 10 years.

Got a Radeon HD 4850 right now, and I do have the Tuniq 120 (I was really invested in learning to oc when I got the e6300, but...)

 

[Highmodulus]

I faced the same thing and just decided to build it, and am happy I did. The dropping prices on 1156 stuff and Black Friday deals coming mean this is a great time to build. Built the rig below with tons of help from the AT'er here.

 

[Axon]

I'll keep that in mind. Makes me think just doing it now might be the better plan, given what I've read performance-wise about the i5-760 with the games I want to play. No real sense in getting a cpu with 25% or whatever better performance if the games I'm gonna play aren't going to notice it.

What do you think about the idea of getting the i5-760, replacing that mobo I listed with one that will run xfire, and get dual 6870s to match? What I'm thinking is it's a more potent combo, especially if I overclock. Or is it stupid to run xfire with just an i5 and expect better performance (now/future)? I guess I don't know where the point of diminishing returns is with the i5 as a basis for cpu limiting gaming experience, if that makes sense. Anyone?

Well, there's a limitation on crossfire/SLI with the 1156 platform because the Lynnfield CPU features a PCI express memory link on the CPU, whereas other platforms, such as the X58, used to run that through the NB chipset. So in terms of synthetics, it's a little slower when you crossfire...in practical reality, there's not much difference at all. Maybe someone has a good article on that for you.

I think a single 6870 will do what you need it to do. Crossfire is better, of course, and will offer more performance for longer, though dual-gpu set ups have their issues (heat, setting individual profiles for each game). When it finally does get old, hardware seems to do so overnight so, who knows how much more time you'll squeeze out of crossfired 6870s.

I get like, 140 FPS on SC2 @ 1920x1080 with a single GTX 460 1GB, and the 6870 is a better card. But they are flying off the shelves these days, its unreal.

Also, you could easily OC that e6300 and plug in a 6870, that would pimp you out for a while. See if that's playable for you, you know? Then you could make a choice re: sandy bridge. Think with the wallet, not the technolust.

 

[Raswan]

Well, there's a limitation on crossfire/SLI with the 1156 platform because the Lynnfield CPU features a PCI express memory link on the CPU, whereas other platforms, such as the X58, used to run that through the NB chipset. So in terms of synthetics, it's a little slower when you crossfire...in practical reality, there's not much difference at all. Maybe someone has a good article on that for you.

I think a single 6870 will do what you need it to do. Crossfire is better, of course, and will offer more performance for longer, though dual-gpu set ups have their issues (heat, setting individual profiles for each game). When it finally does get old, hardware seems to do so overnight so, who knows how much more time you'll squeeze out of crossfired 6870s.

I get like, 140 FPS on SC2 @ 1920x1080 with a single GTX 460 1GB, and the 6870 is a better card. But they are flying off the shelves these days, its unreal.

Also, you could easily OC that e6300 and plug in a 6870, that would pimp you out for a while. See if that's playable for you, you know? Then you could make a choice re: sandy bridge. Think with the wallet, not the technolust.

Ahh, but the lust has me right where it wants it Seems like the consensus, for the video card at least, is that there is no point in waiting. For sure you're right about the 6870s--I've got two on autonotify at any given time right now, and it seems like they are sold out as soon as I get them.

@highmodules or whomever else knows: I've never followed newegg this closely as BF approaches. Am I likely to see any kind of deal on any of those components I originally listed? Or will it be so hit and miss that it's not really worth it to wait at all?

 

[Axon]

ASUS 6870 is in stock: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-401-_-Product

Newegg just ran an extensive 10% off gpu sale. I'm not sure if they're going to be discounting anything again for a while, even on black friday, as frankly, they don't have to. GPUs always sell. You never know, however. I'm sorely tempted by that ASUS 6870. Awesome looking card for my LAN rig.

Anyway, they do have a 10% off HIS cards today (as well as some nvidia manufacturers). The code is BFDESKVGA. The only HIS 6870 in stock is the more expensive, lightly overclocked version. If you don't mind buying nvidia, they are offering some very good deals on the GTX 460 1gb...you can get a Zotac version for like, $140 after rebate. When overclocked, that is a very strong card.

 

[jaydee]

Crossfire is generally not recommended unless you're willing to deal with hassle for short-term gains, that are really not that significant IMO.

It seems very odd to me, that you'd be willing to go through the crossfire hassle but aren't willing to overclock your C2D cpu. You're really making too much of it, it's not rocket-science man! Just push the multiplier and prime95 it overnight. Just try ~2.3Ghz to start.

Most significantly, I'm trying to get across if you're set on getting the 6870, then get it now. It's not going to be better or cheaper in a month, or two months or three months. Unlike the CPU situation, you're not leaving money or performance on the table by buying the video card now. Though I'm not advising it, you could always buy another one later if you really, really want to crossfire.