"A meaningful estate tax is needed to prevent our democracy from becoming a dynastic plutocracy."

[techs]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomb...bloomberg/astidy9myduo

Nov. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Warren Buffett called on Congress to maintain the estate tax, saying that plans to repeal the levy would benefit a handful of the richest American families and widen U.S. income disparity.

Buffett, the billionaire chairman of Omaha, Nebraska-based Berkshire Hathaway Inc., told the Senate Finance Committee that advocates of repeal were ``dead wrong'' to call the levy a ``death tax.''

It would be more appropriate to call it a ``death present,'' said Buffett, 77, who is the third-richest person in the world, according to Forbes Magazine. ``A meaningful estate tax is needed to prevent our democracy from becoming a dynastic plutocracy.'' Heirs to vast fortunes, he said, have already won the ``ovarian lottery'' and shouldn't be further rewarded by the tax system.

Congressional Democrats are likely to seize on Buffett's comments to bolster their argument that repeal of the estate tax amounts to a windfall for a few wealthy families. Republicans have pushed to permanently eliminate the tax or reduce the rate and increase the value of exempt estates.

Buffett said that in the last 20 years, tax laws have allowed the ``super-rich'' to get richer.

``Tax-law changes have benefited this group, including me, in a huge way,'' he said. ``During that time the average American went exactly nowhere on the economic scale: He's been on a treadmill while the super rich have been on a spaceship.''



It is my opinion that the Estate Tax is absolutely necessary if we are to remain a competitive society. Heirs of the super rich tie up huge amounts of capital. And they are overwhelming NOT as able or productive as the progenitor who acquired the wealth.
So I say lets rename it the "Paris Hilton should get a real job" tax.

 

[palehorse]

In your wet socialist dreams techs! Every time clowns like you set your sights on the "super rich," you always shoot wide-left and hit the fvcking middle class! So no thank you.

The Death Tax needs to be eliminated. Period.

 

[imported_Lothar]

I support Warren Buffett's position on the estate tax.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lothar
I support Warren Buffett's position on the estate tax.

Why bother waiting until they're dead to take their money for redistribution to the poor and/or lazy? Hell, hit them up BEFORE they die, so you can experience the pleasure of watching them cry like babies when you take away nearly everything they worked for!

After all, since they've already paid capital gains taxes and/or income taxes on that wealth, it shouldnt be a problem to convince them to hand over yet another large chunk before they pass, for no good reason, right?!

Come on, MAN UP and confront the earners face-to-face! Go take the money from them so that they have the privilege of meeting their rapists before they go!

 

[chucky2]

My moms parents inherited some in the boonies property and bought out there themselves back in the 80's and built a house. Today there are 3 houses (2 are sorta shacks more like it, one is nice) on 5 lots, maybe $400k in assets everything combined.

Grandpa died a couple of years ago, and Grandma just died.

Now, there's really no money in the bank from Grandma and Grandpa, so their 4 kids - who all have kids to put through college in varying degrees, all have mortagages and car payments, etc. - will have to come up with the money to keep the properties going.

Is this death tax or estate tax going to make it even harder on us to keep these things or what?

Chuck

 

[darthsidious]

I think you're exempt from estate tax upto 1 or 2 million. SO you shouldn't be getting hit with it in any case.

 

[ProfJohn]

If Buffet wants to leave his money to the government no one is stopping him.

But it is very nice of him to decide that anyone else who is 'rich' must also leave their money to the government as well.

 

[miketheidiot]

I for one embrace our new nobility.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: Lothar
I support Warren Buffett's position on the estate tax.

Me too. Talk about a man of integrity, Warren is it.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Lothar
I support Warren Buffett's position on the estate tax.

Why bother waiting until they're dead to take their money for redistribution to the poor and/or lazy? Hell, hit them up BEFORE they die, so you can experience the pleasure of watching them cry like babies when you take away nearly everything they worked for!

After all, since they've already paid capital gains taxes and/or income taxes on that wealth, it shouldnt be a problem to convince them to hand over yet another large chunk before they pass, for no good reason, right?!

Come on, MAN UP and confront the earners face-to-face! Go take the money from them so that they have the privilege of meeting their rapists before they go!

What nonsense.

If you have to tax a million dollars, who has the least pain from paying it:

- The poor getting a tax increase
- The middle class getting a tax increase
- The wealthy getting a tax increase
- The Estate Tax on estates of several million and up

Look at the lies in Palehorse's rhetoric - 'nearly everything they worked for'. It's not even close to 'nearly everything', and a lot of them work a lot less for it than most Americans.

The estate tax has benefits ranging from the economic benefits of most Americans have lower taxes, to increasing meritocracy in our nation with less concentration of wealth.

When a few people own everything and get the profits, there's less money available for awarding the people who build better mousetraps.

 

[MovingTarget]

I support his position as well. It does prevent our democracy from evolving in the manner he describes. I find idle wealth to be immoral.

 

[Capitalizt]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
If Buffet wants to leave his money to the government no one is stopping him.

But it is very nice of him to decide that anyone else who is 'rich' must also leave their money to the government as well.

Exactly...He has many billions of dollars. Why not write a check to the treasury right now?

The gubmint knows how to spend it better than him right?

 

[Capitalizt]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
I support his position as well. It does prevent our democracy from evolving in the manner he describes. I find idle wealth to be immoral.

First of all, there is no such thing as "idle" wealth...unless you are keeping it buried in your backyard.

Secondly, if that wealth was EARNED through voluntary trade...why is it immoral?

 

[senseamp]

What is immoral is taxing people who work for a living at a higher rate than those who live off inheritance and capital gains.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: Capitalizt

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
If Buffet wants to leave his money to the government no one is stopping him.

But it is very nice of him to decide that anyone else who is 'rich' must also leave their money to the government as well.

Exactly...He has many billions of dollars. Why not write a check to the treasury right now?

The gubmint knows how to spend it better than him right?

Buffett is donating most of his money to charity. There is no tax if you do that. Inheritance tax is on those who get the inheritance, not the person leaving the inheritance.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Lothar
I support Warren Buffett's position on the estate tax.

Why bother waiting until they're dead to take their money for redistribution to the poor and/or lazy? Hell, hit them up BEFORE they die, so you can experience the pleasure of watching them cry like babies when you take away nearly everything they worked for!

After all, since they've already paid capital gains taxes and/or income taxes on that wealth, it shouldnt be a problem to convince them to hand over yet another large chunk before they pass, for no good reason, right?!

Come on, MAN UP and confront the earners face-to-face! Go take the money from them so that they have the privilege of meeting their rapists before they go!

What nonsense.

If you have to tax a million dollars, who has the least pain from paying it:

- The poor getting a tax increase
- The middle class getting a tax increase
- The wealthy getting a tax increase
- The Estate Tax on estates of several million and up

Look at the lies in Palehorse's rhetoric - 'nearly everything they worked for'. It's not even close to 'nearly everything', and a lot of them work a lot less for it than most Americans.

The estate tax has benefits ranging from the economic benefits of most Americans have lower taxes, to increasing meritocracy in our nation with less concentration of wealth.

When a few people own everything and get the profits, there's less money available for awarding the people who build better mousetraps.

uh...besides everything else you wrote that I disagree with, the bolded statement is pure bullshit. There is no such thing as finite wealth. If you believe there is, from whose pockets did Larry Page and Sergey Brin's billions come from? (They created Google in case you didnt know).

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Lothar
I support Warren Buffett's position on the estate tax.

Why bother waiting until they're dead to take their money for redistribution to the poor and/or lazy? Hell, hit them up BEFORE they die, so you can experience the pleasure of watching them cry like babies when you take away nearly everything they worked for!

After all, since they've already paid capital gains taxes and/or income taxes on that wealth, it shouldnt be a problem to convince them to hand over yet another large chunk before they pass, for no good reason, right?!

Come on, MAN UP and confront the earners face-to-face! Go take the money from them so that they have the privilege of meeting their rapists before they go!

:laugh: :thumbsup:

 

[Jhhnn]

Heh. Looks like Palehorse is foaming at the mouth, again.

One of those magnificent canned anti-govt rants from a guy who supposedly makes hiis living working ... for the govt...

Efforts to repeal the estate tax have been financed by america's wealthiest few- referring to it as the "Paris Hilton tax cut" is entirely appropriate....

And, uhh, slice it, dice it, cut it any way you want, it's still free money to the inheritors, basically unearned income, and nobody is suggesting that they be driven into the poorhouse, at all.

Changes to the law have already drastically reduced the number of estates subject to any tax at all-

http://www.cbpp.org/5-31-06tax2.htm

As usual, I'm sure that real numbers won't affect the opinion forming processes of the rightwing in the slightest...

 

[Capitalizt]

Originally posted by: senseamp
What is immoral is taxing people who work for a living at a higher rate than those who live off inheritance and capital gains.

What is immoral is taxing someone at 40% while they are alive...someone who works their butt off their entire life to provide a good life for their children...then telling them that when they die, 60% of what they have left will be confiscated before their kids get to see it.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Capitalizt

Originally posted by: senseamp
What is immoral is taxing people who work for a living at a higher rate than those who live off inheritance and capital gains.

What is immoral is taxing someone at 40% while they are alive...someone who works their butt off their entire life to provide a good life for their children...then telling them that when they die, 60% of what they have left will be confiscated before their kids get to see it.

yep. pretty much. And it DOES piss off those who leave it for their heirs. Im not ashamed to say Im a trust kid. Now mind you, I havent received a penny as of now because of the way the trust is set up (A/B trust if you care). I had several conversations about finances with dad before he passed away in 2002, and what always pissed him off the most was how much money will be taxed even with the most protective of trusts in place. His words were something to the affect of "I worked 30 years of my life, mostly 6-7 days a week because I love my company and I love my job. The fact that my son will lose potentially millions in taxes, to an already bloated government, is just plain wrong". And he DID earn it. Grew up poor, on and off of welfare, went to public school, and was fortunate to get into one of the most prestigeous engineering colleges in the US. By the time he graduated he was $35k in debt (mind you this was in the 60's). He started part time at Proctor and Gamble working on shit projects, and over the course of 30 years retired as a Jr VP. He is truly a success story, and my hero for going through all the bullshit he did. Well, minus the two families in his wake. Success DOES have a price.

Now, I already know some here will box me into a "rich kid who worked for nothing" corner, and thats fine. It really doesnt matter. But the point is, *I* grew up dirt poor, and didnt really become anywhere near comfortable until my early to mid 30's. And to think allll the wealth my father worked so hard for will be butchered when I recieve it is sickening. Absolutely fucking sickening. It has nothing to do with greed, and EVERYTHING to do with *I* can spend money more wisely than my government can.

I didnt mean to go on a rant here, but it seems those who support taxing the shit out of the rich and the inheritance they leave behind to their families are those who probably have no chance of ever receiving such wealth. Thats fine. But I guarantee the minute a loved one who HAS done well in life leaves you or your kids something, and YOU are on the receiving end of this bullshit taxation, you will squeal like a stuck pig. In other words, plain good ol' fashioned class envy.

Those who support estate taxes cant honestly say you think the government can put money to better use than you could. At least if you had it, you could give to the charities and do the things YOU want.

/rant

 

[StageLeft]

He's rich and gives money to charity so he must be the moral compass of our times.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Capitalizt

Originally posted by: senseamp
What is immoral is taxing people who work for a living at a higher rate than those who live off inheritance and capital gains.

What is immoral is taxing someone at 40% while they are alive...someone who works their butt off their entire life to provide a good life for their children...then telling them that when they die, 60% of what they have left will be confiscated before their kids get to see it.

yep. pretty much. And it DOES piss off those who leave it for their heirs. Im not ashamed to say Im a trust kid. Now mind you, I havent received a penny as of now because of the way the trust is set up (A/B trust if you care). I had several conversations about finances with dad before he passed away in 2002, and what always pissed him off the most was how much money will be taxed even with the most protective of trusts in place. His words were something to the affect of "I worked 30 years of my life, mostly 6-7 days a week because I love my company and I love my job. The fact that my son will lose potentially millions in taxes, to an already bloated government, is just plain wrong". And he DID earn it. Grew up poor, on and off of welfare, went to public school, and was fortunate to get into one of the most prestigeous engineering colleges in the US. By the time he graduated he was $35k in debt (mind you this was in the 60's). He started part time at Proctor and Gamble working on shit projects, and over the course of 30 years retired as a Jr VP. He is truly a success story, and my hero for going through all the bullshit he did. Well, minus the two families in his wake. Success DOES have a price.

Now, I already know some here will box me into a "rich kid who worked for nothing" corner, and thats fine. It really doesnt matter. But the point is, *I* grew up dirt poor, and didnt really become anywhere near comfortable until my early to mid 30's. And to think allll the wealth my father worked so hard for will be butchered when I recieve it is sickening. Absolutely fucking sickening. It has nothing to do with greed, and EVERYTHING to do with *I* can spend money more wisely than my government can.

I didnt mean to go on a rant here, but it seems those who support taxing the shit out of the rich and the inheritance they leave behind to their families are those who probably have no chance of ever receiving such wealth. Thats fine. But I guarantee the minute a loved one who HAS done well in life leaves you or your kids something, and YOU are on the receiving end of this bullshit taxation, you will squeal like a stuck pig. In other words, plain good ol' fashioned class envy.

Those who support estate taxes cant honestly say you think the government can put money to better use than you could. At least if you had it, you could give to the charities and do the things YOU want.

/rant

Please pull the sliver spoon out of your ass, and put it back in your mouth.

 

[smack Down]

Those who support estate taxes cant honestly say you think the government can put money to better use than you could. At least if you had it, you could give to the charities and do the things YOU want.

No one likes paying taxes and everyone has a better use for their money. Please explain why the money you get for doing nothing should not be taxed but the money I earn should be.

 

[shiner]

If you have any intelligence at all there are ways to avoid, legally, the estate tax.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
In your wet socialist dreams techs! Every time clowns like you set your sights on the "super rich," you always shoot wide-left and hit the fvcking middle class! So no thank you.

The Death Tax needs to be eliminated. Period.

Ok...except that's NOT what the estate tax does. So, you know, maybe we can discuss actual events instead of foaming at the mouth over generic "socialism".

Republicans have sold the estate tax as something that attacks the middle class, and you guys have bought it hook, line and sinker for some reason. Except anyone with two neurons to rub together can look at the ACTUAL tax and see that it affects an extremely small percentage of estates (something less than 1%, if I'm remembering correctly). So what the hell are you blathering about?