A Machine That Turns Plastic Back Into Oil

[Moonbeam]

Do we have a time to produce 1 liter of oil? I didn't hear 1 kw being metioned in the video. You are arguing on the premise of not enough information.

So I went and looked elsewhere and got the 20c worth of electricity to make the one liter. You didn't have enough information. I went and looked for it.

 

[Toastedlightly]

So I went and looked elsewhere and got the 20c worth of electricity to make the one liter. You didn't have enough information. I went and looked for it.

Where did you get that information? I am genuinely curious.

 

[Moonbeam]

Where did you get that information? I am genuinely curious.

http://ourworld.unu.edu/en/plastic-to-oil-fantastic/

 

[CycloWizard]

You are right. People are absolutely worthless, especially hippies, and what we need is a machine that produces soylent green.

Plastic is a tool. hahahahahaha

Not as big a tool as you are.

As usual, reality has no bearing on your argument, so I'm not sure why you're here. Is the plastic throwing itself into the rivers or oceans?

 

[Moonbeam]

Here's some info on another commercial machine being built and sold here in America called the Hawk:

The machine is a microwave emitter that extracts the petroleum and gas hidden inside everyday objects—or at least anything made with hydrocarbons, which, it turns out, is most of what’s around you. Every hour, the first commercial version will turn 10 tons of auto waste—tires, plastic, vinyl—into enough natural gas to produce 17 million BTUs of energy (it will use 956,000 of those BTUs to keep itself running).

 

[Toastedlightly]

http://ourworld.unu.edu/en/plastic-to-oil-fantastic/

"One kilogram of plastic produces almost one liter of oil. To convert that amount takes about 1 kilowatt of electricity, which is approximately ¥20 or 20 cents’ worth."

Your source is just wrong. A rate is not a quantity. Until an actual value of energy (joules) is given, I really can't believe the source.

 

[Cogman]

"One kilogram of plastic produces almost one liter of oil. To convert that amount takes about 1 kilowatt of electricity, which is approximately ¥20 or 20 cents’ worth."

Your source is just wrong. A rate is not a quantity. Until an actual value of energy (joules) is given, I really can't believe the source.

Or KWH would be nice as well.

 

[Moonbeam]

As usual, reality has no bearing on your argument, so I'm not sure why you're here. Is the plastic throwing itself into the rivers or oceans?

Why do you talk about reality when the reality is that the ocean is filling up with plastic. In reality, it doesn't fucking matter how it got there, whether it's the asshole chemists who make it knowing worthless hippies will throw it there, or the worthless swine who live as humans are wont to, like the shit chemists who don't care what they do. This whole plastic problem is all the result of Eve tempting Adam to bite the apple I guess. You have such a huge chip on your shoulder you can't think straight. The plastic is throwing itself into the oceans and rivers just like the devil intended. Go some place and pray. "Dear God in Heaven, riddle me this: Who is to blame for plastic disposed of. Is it the creators of plastic meant to be disposed of or the folk who throw it away. Tell me O Mighty God, so that I may take our my wrath of the true enemy, for I am Thy Servant, Dear Maker, and am here to bring your punishing revenge."

Don't you call me a Hippie, you dirty God Freak, when the real subject is plastic waste and then turn around and claim to be the one who's fucking real. Your unconscious fear that I might have enjoyed thousands of fab hippie chicks before AIDS came around, is a product only of your sick and repressed imagination.

 

[CycloWizard]

Why do you talk about reality when the reality is that the ocean is filling up with plastic. In reality, it doesn't fucking matter how it got there, whether it's the asshole chemists who make it knowing worthless hippies will throw it there, or the worthless swine who live as humans are wont to, like the shit chemists who don't care what they do. This whole plastic problem is all the result of Eve tempting Adam to bite the apple I guess. You have such a huge chip on your shoulder you can't think straight. The plastic is throwing itself into the oceans and rivers just like the devil intended. Go some place and pray. "Dear God in Heaven, riddle me this: Who is to blame for plastic disposed of. Is it the creators of plastic meant to be disposed of or the folk who throw it away. Tell me O Mighty God, so that I may take our my wrath of the true enemy, for I am Thy Servant, Dear Maker, and am here to bring your punishing revenge."

Don't you call me a Hippie, you dirty God Freak, when the real subject is plastic waste and then turn around and claim to be the one who's fucking real. Your unconscious fear that I might have enjoyed thousands of fab hippie chicks before AIDS came around, is a product only of your sick and repressed imagination.

So what's your solution? Do you want to ban plastics, or just break the laws of thermodynamics? Or do you think that if you are high enough, the laws of the universe don't apply to you?

 

[William Gaatjes]

As usual, reality has no bearing on your argument, so I'm not sure why you're here. Is the plastic throwing itself into the rivers or oceans?

In all defense of moonbeam, you do not really think that people throw bottles in the sea right ? People from midlands cannot throw that far. I know, anti social behaviour of people on the beach not included, those are the people you mean i presume. But most garbage is dumped in the sea by waste disposal companies who again are bound by self regulation. I mean contracts have been made in the recent past where all the garbage was shipped to china and India to be processed(read dumped) there. Not only from the US, from the EU as well. This just gives an idea. There is hardly any recycling. Because as soon as the citizen become aware and start recycling some idiot with a calculator comes up and says "hey, it's more cheaper to throw it away then to recycle "). I see it everywhere. The people are willing, but when we start to separate our garbage and invest time and money for a better climate. Some rich company fucker takes all that separated garbage and waste and throws it on one pile again to burn it without any pollution filters. Only creating the illusion that everything get's separated and recycled. You know, i almost wish i believed in that nonsense and that 2012 was the end of humanity. But unfortunately you people will be doing it to yourself. It will not take long anymore. The more i dig into the dirt, the more i feel as when looking at a bad design that needs to be improved... It is no fun being right when you want to be wrong.

 

[Moonbeam]

So what's your solution? Do you want to ban plastics, or just break the laws of thermodynamics? Or do you think that if you are high enough, the laws of the universe don't apply to you?

I don't have time to tell you what I think there is so much to say and I know only a fraction of what there is to know. I think the ball is already on the court, I see organic meals that have paper containers with a thin plastic waterproofing for the microwave. I see recycling at my curb and soon they will be taking almost anything, clean or with food waste. I see my grass and yard clippings on the side of the road covering up weeds and fertilizing trees.

The stores are paying me to bring my own bags and refunding money if I reuse plastic bags. The major work I see that is needed is degradable plastic for stuff we throw away.

Where are the laws of thermodynamics broken by a machine that uses a million BTU to create 16 million.

 

[CycloWizard]

In all defense of moonbeam, you do not really think that people throw bottles in the sea right ? People from midlands cannot throw that far. I know, anti social behaviour of people on the beach not included, those are the people you mean i presume. But most garbage is dumped in the sea by waste disposal companies who again are bound by self regulation. I mean contracts have been made in the recent past where all the garbage was shipped to china and India to be processed(read dumped) there. Not only from the US, from the EU as well. This just gives an idea. There is hardly any recycling. Because as soon as the citizen become aware and start recycling some idiot with a calculator comes up and says "hey, it's more cheaper to throw it away then to recycle "). I see it everywhere. The people are willing, but when we start to separate our garbage and invest time and money for a better climate. Some rich company fucker takes all that separated garbage and waste and throws it on one pile again to burn it without any pollution filters. Only creating the illusion that everything get's separated and recycled. You know, i almost wish i believed in that nonsense and that 2012 was the end of humanity. But unfortunately you people will be doing it to yourself. It will not take long anymore. The more i dig into the dirt, the more i feel as when looking at a bad design that needs to be improved... It is no fun being right when you want to be wrong.

So the crux of our disagreement is now that you're arguing that waste disposal companies are operated by plastic, while I am arguing that they are operated by humans? Are you really going to go to the mat for this argument?

 

[CycloWizard]

I don't have time to tell you what I think there is so much to say and I know only a fraction of what there is to know. I think the ball is already on the court, I see organic meals that have paper containers with a thin plastic waterproofing for the microwave. I see recycling at my curb and soon they will be taking almost anything, clean or with food waste. I see my grass and yard clippings on the side of the road covering up weeds and fertilizing trees.

The stores are paying me to bring my own bags and refunding money if I reuse plastic bags. The major work I see that is needed is degradable plastic for stuff we throw away.

Where are the laws of thermodynamics broken by a machine that uses a million BTU to create 16 million.

Ah, now you want to reframe the debate by backtracking on your previous statements in which you stated, "plastic is destroying the environment because it has no worth." As someone who manipulates and creates polymers to save lives and improve quality of life, I find your ignorant comments both sad and offensive. Of course, the ignorant never realize the extent of their ignorance, so you're forgiven.

 

[William Gaatjes]

So the crux of our disagreement is now that you're arguing that waste disposal companies are operated by plastic, while I am arguing that they are operated by humans? Are you really going to go to the mat for this argument?

I do not know where you get that idea, i am simply stating that things do not always appear to be what they are shown to be. We both agree it is humans.
From one perspective you are right, the citizen makes a mess of it. From the same perspective, the liberties and choices of those same citizens have been purposefully limited to avoid the free market principle(which is the customers choice) and make a lot of money. Government manipulation by companies. For years and years the heads of citizens in the US have been filled that a government with the power to control, with the power to enforce legislations and regulations is an evil thing. A communist thing. People have accepted that black and white view that is also very much a lie. And now it has turned against them to bite them in the butt. Citizens are not seen as humans, citizens are entities to make money from with or without their consent. That is what i am stating and i know i am right and i know you agree. I always try to stay out of politics and bury myself into the wonderful honest world of electronics and programming because i know how ugly and corrupt politics can be. I have now seen there is no can be. It just is. The more research i do, to come up with cold hard facts to back up my view, the more foul data i see. There is no end to this bottomless pit. This which i can no longer forget i can take with me to the mat. But it is not you i want in the ring against me.

All this text to simply state that i for once in my lifetime am disgusted about events in history. Recent events that is. :\ My view of an free western world where people can become enlightened is crippled and it saddens me.

 

[CycloWizard]

I do not know where you get that idea, i am simply stating that things do not always appear to be what they are shown to be. We both agree it is humans.
From one perspective you are right, the citizen makes a mess of it. From the same perspective, the liberties and choices of those same citizens have been purposefully limited to avoid the free market principle(which is the customers choice) and make a lot of money. Government manipulation by companies. For years and years the heads of citizens in the US have been filled that a government with the power to control, with the power to enforce legislations and regulations is an evil thing. A communist thing. People have accepted that black and white view that is also very much a lie. And now it has turned against them to bite them in the butt. Citizens are not seen as humans, citizens are entities to make money from with or without their consent. That is what i am stating and i know i am right and i know you agree. I always try to stay out of politics and bury myself into the wonderful honest world of electronics and programming because i know how ugly and corrupt politics can be. I have now seen there is no can be. It just is. The more research i do, to come up with cold hard facts to back up my view, the more foul data i see. There is no end to this bottomless pit. This which i can no longer forget i can take with me to the mat. But it is not you i want in the ring against me.

All this text to simply state that i for once in my lifetime am disgusted about events in history. Recent events that is. :\ My view of an free western world where people can become enlightened is crippled and it saddens me.

Great. But that has nothing to do with this thread and is simply a really long diversion from the fact that plastic bottles generally don't chuck themselves into the ocean.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Plastics (polymers) are some of the most non-reactive materials we encounter every day. The long (thousands long) chains of molecules are not apt to be absorbed by our body or to interupt biological processes.

Wasn't there a prediction by some scientist that eventually, every living thing would have minute particles of plastic in them, because plastic doesn't bio-degrade, instead, it simply gets worn down and breaks apart into millions of microscopic pieces, and those would get ingested and absorbed by every living thing?

 

[William Gaatjes]

Great. But that has nothing to do with this thread and is simply a really long diversion from the fact that plastic bottles generally don't chuck themselves into the ocean.

Yes it does. People with a mentality to clean up their waste after a beach party would be a good start. But as i mentioned and you probably not figured, is that a lot of waste is just dumped into the sea by companies who claim to take proper care of the waste. In other words 3 years of parties at the beach might as well equal one waste dump in the sea. And that is what i am stating. It is all wrong, but it does not end with a mentality change amoung the party people at the beach. It is just a start. As long as ceo can not be held criminal responsible for the misbehaviour of the company these events will never end. That is one thing the western world could learn from China. Give the ceo a death sentence if he knowingly and willingly proceed with selling untested products or products that are dangerous to the health. And why is that, because every company now knows that enough profit will be made to settle court cases. Earn a billion over 5 years settle with 100 million 6 years later. No matter what happens to other people.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Wasn't there a prediction by some scientist that eventually, every living thing would have minute particles of plastic in them, because plastic doesn't bio-degrade, instead, it simply gets worn down and breaks apart into millions of microscopic pieces, and those would get ingested and absorbed by every living thing?

That short movie from moonbeam is a great example. I recommend to view it.

 

[CycloWizard]

Yes it does. People with a mentality to clean up their waste after a beach party would be a good start. But as i mentioned and you probably not figured, is that a lot of waste is just dumped into the sea by companies who claim to take proper care of the waste. In other words 3 years of parties at the beach might as well equal one waste dump in the sea. And that is what i am stating. It is all wrong, but it does not end with a mentality change amoung the party people at the beach. It is just a start. As long as ceo can not be held criminal responsible for the misbehaviour of the company these events will never end. That is one thing the western world could learn from China. Give the ceo a death sentence if he knowingly and willingly proceed with selling untested products or products that are dangerous to the health. And why is that, because every company now knows that enough profit will be made to settle court cases. Earn a billion over 5 years settle with 100 million 6 years later. No matter what happens to other people.

In other words, you agree with what I said: people are the problem. You see, I was simply confused because before you said you completely supported Moonbeam's position, which was that plastic itself was the problem.

 

[William Gaatjes]

In other words, you agree with what I said: people are the problem. You see, I was simply confused because before you said you completely supported Moonbeam's position, which was that plastic itself was the problem.

If you combine the 2 different situations that i described then yes. I do not think that there is anything that cannot be used as long as it is fully understood and properly taken care off in a closed cycle principle. The problem with plastics is that for a few lousy dollars people are willing to pollute everything and their own backyard. And i do not get it, there is nothing more gratifying then creating and using a complete solution where all the benefits are present and none of the draw backs. Plastics are perfectly safe when properly taken care off. But burned as cheap source for electricity or just dumped in sea or buried under ground is plain wrong and a crime against life for which humanity is a part off. Pollution takes place not because it cannot be solved, but for a few dollars more profit all serious side effects are ignored. And what i do not like and makes me angry is that when an US citizen when not agreeing with the point of view of a US company who are knowingly polluting or creating an hazardous environment, is being accused of being non patriotic. I am not an US citizen but i find this very disturbing that people are used and played on the scale that i am seeing. It disturbs me a lot. I may be getting a little of track but it puzzles me that the people in the US do not unite against this abuse of their rights as free citizens. I do understand though, with all the worries how to pay for bills...

 

[CycloWizard]

If you combine the 2 different situations that i described then yes. I do not think that there is anything that cannot be used as long as it is fully understood and properly taken care off in a closed cycle principle. The problem with plastics is that for a few lousy dollars people are willing to pollute everything and their own backyard. And i do not get it, there is nothing more gratifying then creating and using a complete solution where all the benefits are present and none of the draw backs. Plastics are perfectly safe when properly taken care off. But burned as cheap source for electricity or just dumped in sea or buried under ground is plain wrong and a crime against life for which humanity is a part off. Pollution takes place not because it cannot be solved, but for a few dollars more profit all serious side effects are ignored. And what i do not like and makes me angry is that when an US citizen when not agreeing with the point of view of a US company who are knowingly polluting or creating an hazardous environment, is being accused of being non patriotic. I am not an US citizen but i find this very disturbing that people are used and played on the scale that i am seeing. It disturbs me a lot. I may be getting a little of track but it puzzles me that the people in the US do not unite against this abuse of their rights as free citizens. I do understand though, with all the worries how to pay for bills...

If you could properly read English, you would see what I am saying: companies are made up of people. People misuse tools, such as plastics, all the time. I made no excuses for the people abusing plastics either - I only stated that it makes no sense to blame the tool for how the tool is used. If I produce hammers and someone uses a hammer to kill someone, does that make hammers evil?

I think you're from India, so I'll tell you what bothers me: someone from India telling someone from the US that US corporations are terrible polluters. This statement is an amazing demonstration of your own ignorance.

 

[Moonbeam]

Ah, now you want to reframe the debate by backtracking on your previous statements in which you stated, "plastic is destroying the environment because it has no worth." As someone who manipulates and creates polymers to save lives and improve quality of life, I find your ignorant comments both sad and offensive. Of course, the ignorant never realize the extent of their ignorance, so you're forgiven.

Good grief you have such a chip on your shoulder you can't even read. I figured you were a plastic person but I never figured you were the dense kind who couldn't figure out why plastic is worthless. Plastic has thousands or maybe even millions of uses and is definitely a powerful tool, but when it is thrown away it has no value and that inherent worthlessness is why folk don't pick it up. If there were machines all over the place where plastic could be turned into money a huge industry for poor people to earn a living gathering it up would be created. That is why this idea of using plastic as a commodity in its waste form appeals to me.

You should try to remember that just because you're creating stuff that is useful today but worthless quite soon after use, doesn't mean that you yourself are worthless. Self hate forces us to make that mistake.

 

[CycloWizard]

Good grief you have such a chip on your shoulder you can't even read. I figured you were a plastic person but I never figured you were the dense kind who couldn't figure out why plastic is worthless. Plastic has thousands or maybe even millions of uses and is definitely a powerful tool, but when it is thrown away it has no value and that inherent worthlessness is why folk don't pick it up. If there were machines all over the place where plastic could be turned into money a huge industry for poor people to earn a living gathering it up would be created. That is why this idea of using plastic as a commodity in its waste form appeals to me.

Perhaps if you could state things in a manner which clearly conveyed your ideas, I wouldn't appear so dense. I can't get information that isn't there.

You should try to remember that just because you're creating stuff that is useful today but worthless quite soon after use, doesn't mean that you yourself are worthless. Self hate forces us to make that mistake.

People are buried with the implants I make, and they will decompose as the person does: they are made from biopolymers. Most medical plastics could be safely reused after autoclaving except the government has made that illegal. Now, they have to be autoclaved in a red plastic biohazard bag or thick plastic sharps container, then landfilled. You'll find the same sort of government regulations helping plastic recycling in other industries as well. Don't you think Coke would reuse a bottle after cleaning it rather than paying to make a new bottle from scratch? The law here may have changed recently, but I know it used to be illegal for them to do this.

 

[Cogman]

People are buried with the implants I make, and they will decompose as the person does: they are made from biopolymers. Most medical plastics could be safely reused after autoclaving except the government has made that illegal. Now, they have to be autoclaved in a red plastic biohazard bag or thick plastic sharps container, then landfilled. You'll find the same sort of government regulations helping plastic recycling in other industries as well. Don't you think Coke would reuse a bottle after cleaning it rather than paying to make a new bottle from scratch? The law here may have changed recently, but I know it used to be illegal for them to do this.

This is a big issue for me. (off topic).

The government has instituted several extreme laws in the name of "safety" that really should be abolished. For example, irradiation sterilization. It could be used as one of the most effect sterilization methods out there. Diereses like salmonella would become none existent, almost all foods would have their shelf life increased dramatically (vacuum sealed food would last for a near eternity). Yet why don't we do this? Because the government is afraid that a sealed container of radioactive material could somehow magically make the stuff exposed to it radioactive.

 

[CycloWizard]

This is a big issue for me. (off topic).

The government has instituted several extreme laws in the name of "safety" that really should be abolished. For example, irradiation sterilization. It could be used as one of the most effect sterilization methods out there. Diereses like salmonella would become none existent, almost all foods would have their shelf life increased dramatically (vacuum sealed food would last for a near eternity). Yet why don't we do this? Because the government is afraid that a sealed container of radioactive material could somehow magically make the stuff exposed to it radioactive.

Because it has the word radiation in it!!!!1! Politicians operate in the absence of information and go with their gut.