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A little indication of how powerfull Fermi is?

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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I was reading an article on the new game Metro 2033, and noticed this line from the develper......


games.on.net: What are the system requirements to run the game at full detail for a PC user, everything turned on, at 1680 x 1050 resolution?

Olez: At that resolution, the last generation of high end hardware – a single GPU NVIDIA card - will suffice. The new generation of cards from ATI, and we’ve seen the new ones from NVIDIA too, they’re way more powerful. With these you can turn everything on, with image enhancing features such as Super Sampling of every surface and every texture. Everything will be more detailed with this – not just edges.


Do they mean way more powerfull then the 58xx series?

Full article here..

http://games.on.net/article/7836/Metro_2033_-_Technical_QA
 

VashHT

Platinum Member
Feb 1, 2007
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From the way it's written it sounds like they're saying the 5 series and the new series from nvidia are way more powerful than the last generation of high end single GPU cards.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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From the way it's written it sounds like they're saying the 5 series and the new series from nvidia are way more powerful than the last generation of high end single GPU cards.
Yea,I see ,I think your right.

Anyway looks like theres finally a game to challenge new GPU hardware.
It also says its multithread scalable up to 8 or even 16 cores for your cpu!

Looks like a reason to upgrade.
 

ScorcherDarkly

Senior member
Aug 7, 2009
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From the way it's written it sounds like they're saying the 5 series and the new series from nvidia are way more powerful than the last generation of high end single GPU cards.
Yes, I concur. Should read like this:

Olez: At that resolution, the last generation of high end hardware – a single GPU NVIDIA card - will suffice. The new generation of cards from ATI and NVIDIA, they’re way more powerful [than the last generation of hardware]. With Cypress and Fermi you can turn everything on, with image enhancing features such as Super Sampling of every surface and every texture. Everything will be more detailed with this – not just edges.
 

ScorcherDarkly

Senior member
Aug 7, 2009
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Yea,I see ,I think your right.

Anyway looks like theres finally a game to challenge new GPU hardware.
It also says its multithread scalable up to 8 or even 16 cores for your cpu!

Looks like a reason to upgrade.
I fail to see how a game that is maxable at 1680x1050 on the last generation of hardware will challenge the 5800 series or Fermi. And if its maxable on old hardware, why would you need to upgrade?

And seriously, scalable to 16 cores? Are they on crack? Who the hell is going to play this game on a computer that has 16 cores? Why would they waste their time developing code for that?
 

Udgnim

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2008
3,654
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based off the trailer, the majority of the game is in doors, so I doubt it will be that hard on video cards. Metro 2033 is also a twiwmtbp game.
 

crazylegs

Senior member
Sep 30, 2005
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0
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based off the trailer, the majority of the game is in doors, so I doubt it will be that hard on video cards. Metro 2033 is also a twiwmtbp game.
Anyone else think its perculiar that a spokes person from a twiwmtbp game, thinks the next gen cards from his sponsor are going to be really powerful...?

Just me then lol
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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from article said:
games.on.net: This game is a cutting edge PC game. Was it hard to squeeze these visuals on to the Xbox 360 as well?

Olez: Yes and no. Xbox is a fixed platform, you have all the access to the hardware and you can do a lot of cool stuff way, way cheaper than on PC. So the Xbox’s graphics quality is not of a low quality PC, it’s actually better than a middle-range PC.
I thought this answer was very interesting.

If a game is less costly to program for then it stands that it could have more efficient code. This more efficient code could offset some of the disadvantages of lesser hardware?
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
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Yea,I see ,I think your right.

Anyway looks like theres finally a game to challenge new GPU hardware.
It also says its multithread scalable up to 8 or even 16 cores for your cpu!

Looks like a reason to upgrade.
I can't wait to see the benchmarks. He also said this game would scale 100% better with quad core over dual core right?
 

Udgnim

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2008
3,654
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I thought this answer was very interesting.

If a game is less costly to program for then it stands that it could have more efficient code. This more efficient code could offset some of the disadvantages of lesser hardware?
regarding Olez's answer, that's been the case since Xbox 1
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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This game is utilizing hardware physx. Based on what Dark Void and even the less demanding (but more eye pleasing) Batman AA are demonstrating, users will need either a fermi-based geforce or a dedicated physx card to turn physx up all the way (along with maxing out all other in game graphical settings) to run the game with smooth frame rates at all times. Which is fine with me as long as the physx effects are done well.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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Which is fine with me as long as the physx effects are done well.
I am really interested to see how these Physx effects look in the game?

Are we talking a huge difference like tessellation on vs tessellation off.
 
Dec 30, 2004
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This game is utilizing hardware physx. Based on what Dark Void and even the less demanding (but more eye pleasing) Batman AA are demonstrating, users will need either a fermi-based geforce or a dedicated physx card to turn physx up all the way (along with maxing out all other in game graphical settings) to run the game with smooth frame rates at all times. Which is fine with me as long as the physx effects are done well.
I am really interested to see how these Physx effects look in the game?

Are we talking a huge difference like tessellation on vs tessellation off.
you know I just don't see it...physx is still gimmicky to me. Why? Because even with unlimited rendering power (in movies, for example), the artists still can't get the physics to look right.

The problem is in the equations, not in the power. 500 particle explosions are great but if it looks like the Ageia explosions where the barrels are all traveling at slow motion then ... it still looks totally fake.

Collision detection should improve with Fermi...
but it's not like our CPUs can't do these Physx anyways. The only reason software mode is slower is that it only runs in a single thread. If it ran like it does on the graphics card (multi-threaded) then the performance would be very similar and we'd have reason to purchase a 12-core monstrosity for our games.

So yeah, it's still marketing to me. Physics was never something I looked at and said "they need to fix that for the game to draw me in and keep my interest".
 

ronnn

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
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Well they advertise nvidia on the metro 2033 web site, so maybe they actually do have an idea.
 

tviceman

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Mar 25, 2008
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tviceman

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Mar 25, 2008
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you know I just don't see it...physx is still gimmicky to me. Why? Because even with unlimited rendering power (in movies, for example), the artists still can't get the physics to look right.

The problem is in the equations, not in the power. 500 particle explosions are great but if it looks like the Ageia explosions where the barrels are all traveling at slow motion then ... it still looks totally fake.

Collision detection should improve with Fermi...
but it's not like our CPUs can't do these Physx anyways. The only reason software mode is slower is that it only runs in a single thread. If it ran like it does on the graphics card (multi-threaded) then the performance would be very similar and we'd have reason to purchase a 12-core monstrosity for our games.

So yeah, it's still marketing to me. Physics was never something I looked at and said "they need to fix that for the game to draw me in and keep my interest".
You have to look at it from a visual improvement standpoint. It's no more gimmicky than anti aliasing is. In fact, at super high resolutions, AA to me isn't nearly as compelling as physx is in the game videos I linked in the previous post. I welcome anything that can improve the visual fidelity over the lack of progression we've been experiencing since 2006 (Crysis excluded). Games that have used physx well stand out vs. their console counterparts, and even though the gameplay does not change, like I said, it's a noticeable visual improvement over the status quo.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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I thought the bullets hitting the flags were much better with Physx on in mirrors edge (this occured at 1:37 in the video)

I also liked the water cannon effects better in Cryostasis with physx on at 1:02 in the video.

But for Nvidia to succeed with this maybe they need to take things one step further. Is there any way to integrate these physics effects into the actual strategy of the game?
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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You have to look at it from a visual improvement standpoint. It's no more gimmicky than anti aliasing is. In fact, at super high resolutions, AA to me isn't nearly as compelling as physx is in the game videos I linked in the previous post. I welcome anything that can improve the visual fidelity over the lack of progression we've been experiencing since 2006 (Crysis excluded). Games that have used physx well stand out vs. their console counterparts, and even though the gameplay does not change, like I said, it's a noticeable visual improvement over the status quo.
Some people say Eyefinity is a gimmick, but I am not really so sure that is true when it clearly affects the strategy of the game (in multi-player)

In fact, one game developer actually decided to ban it because it could give players using it an unfair advantage. See commentary here
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
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Any only 2 of those games are even worth playing. There just isn't enough reason to go with Physx. Not enough good games use it and when they use it, it's not game changing. Most of the effects that are done in Batman can easily be done other ways but they just completely eliminate them if you don't have Physx capable GPU which is stupid.
 

Udgnim

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2008
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I thought the bullets hitting the flags were much better with Physx on in mirrors edge (this occured at 1:37 in the video)

I also liked the water cannon effects better in Cryostasis with physx on at 1:02 in the video.

But for Nvidia to succeed with this maybe they need to take things one step further. Is there any way to integrate these physics effects into the actual strategy of the game?
it is very difficult for the developer to incorporate physx into playing a significant role with gameplay because of needing to maintain the same core gameplay for non-physx owners (ATI and console users).
 
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bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
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man, I started reading about darkest of days, got all excited about the premise, and then saw that the reviews were TERRIBLE...you would think that they could come out with some decent games that also happened to use physix instead of just using crappy games as physix demos...
 

MrK6

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2004
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it is very difficult for the developer to incorporate physx into playing a significant role with gameplay because of needing to maintain the same core gameplay for non-physx owners (ATI and console users).
Bingo. I've been beating this drum for years: because PhysX is proprietary, it's going nowhere fast. For example, Havok physics in BF: BC2 has done more for in-game physics than anything NVIDIA has done with PhysX since it acquired it. Why? Because everyone can reap the benefits of the developers work, not just a select few.

In response to the article, it's tough to say. Metro 2033 should be cake to run because it's so limited in scene complexity, so I'd imagine any new series card should have little issue running it. I'll just throw it out there as a reminder that if Fermi was amazing, we would have already heard about it ;).
 

scooterlibby

Senior member
Feb 28, 2009
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I know you can't mix and match cards for SLI (at least without Fusion), but I am wondering if I can have a dedicated DX10 Nvidia card while running Fermi on a game that's both DX11 and uses Physx. Would a 2xx series card mixed with a DX11 Fermi work if the 2xx series is only doing dedicated Physx calculations?
 

tviceman

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Mar 25, 2008
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I know you can't mix and match cards for SLI (at least without Fusion), but I am wondering if I can have a dedicated DX10 Nvidia card while running Fermi on a game that's both DX11 and uses Physx. Would a 2xx series card mixed with a DX11 Fermi work if the 2xx series is only doing dedicated Physx calculations?
Yes. I have a 9600 GSO as a physx card and a gtx260 216 as my primary display card. It improved my batman frame rates by 43% (mimimum went from 23 to 33 fps on the benchmark).
 

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