A little help for Republicans in not being conned

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
One fallacy Republicans should learn: when they're being lied to by pandering to them about enemies.

Example in point, though there are many recent examples:

Romney doesn't want to release his tax returns. It's more embarrassing that his father was the pioneer in releasing them creating a tradition followed since, releasing 12 years.

In fact, his father specifically commented that it needs to be a long history, because it's too easy to make them look better recently for the upcoming campaign.

How this should play out: the voters want transparency, to see what Romney has really done in contrast to what he says. He should look weaselly if he refuses.

How this played out in the debate clip I saw: Romney was asked if he would release 12 years' returns like his father. He first responded 'maybe', which got something of a myterious appleause, perhaps critical of the moderator as the hated 'media'. Then he started to say he's not sure how many years he'll release and the audience began to boo him, seeming to notice he was jerking them around, not being very honest.

Then he said 'he's not going to give Democrats the gift', and as he made them the 'common enemy', the audience started to loudly cheer him.

So, if he screws THEM out transparency, that's bad; but if he makes it about screwing Democrats out of transparency, that's GOOD.

These people really fall for this stuff.

Same for Gingirch in the same debate - these people will attack a Democrat up and down for a sex scandal and proclaim their 'values' all day, when used to attack their enemies.

How Gingirch's behavior should affect his candidacy is for the voters to say this guy is terrible by their standards and refuse to vote for him.

But he played the victim of the hated 'media', much like Sara Palin turned around her inability to say she read anything into an attack claiming a 'gotcha question'.

And the analysts said his attacking the media let him turn what should be a damaging fact into the biggest gain in the debate, simply be turning it into an attack on the meda.

How DARE they raise critical information about him?

And the people fall for this.

Republicans need to stop letting themselves fall for this fallacy, where something that should be criticied is sold to them simply by making the issue about some enemy.

Newt could eat a baby live on stage, and by saying the 'liberal media' had criticized him for it, would seem to have a good chance of a standing ovation.

Hint to Republicans: message that Democrats are 'all bad', that the media is 'all bad', are good lies for selling right-wing media as 'the alternative' - not for the consumers.

It's just bizarre that the candidate with the worst violations of the proclaimed 'values' is thriving anyway and even benefiting from the issue by pulling this propaganda.

Bad leaders have long used scapegoats to get away with murder (literally) - don't look at them, look at the enemy they talk about, how much you hate that enemy.

Shiow me a demagogue, and I'll show you the enemy he uses to get power and support.

Republicans were right to boo Romney for weaseling, and wrong to applaud him for weaseling against Democrats.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
Hint to Democrats: message that Republicans are "all bad" is a good lie for selling the idea that left-wing media is going to be fair.

Too bad you don't demand the same transparency from Obama that you demand from the Republican candidates and that he promised the people of this nation.

That said, there is enough merit in what you write that Republicans should sit up and demand more transparency from their candidates and from their Government.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Hint to Democrats: message that Republicans are "all bad" is a good lie for selling the idea that left-wing media is going to be fair.

Too bad you don't demand the same transparency from Obama that you demand from the Republican candidates and that he promised the people of this nation.

That said, there is enough merit in what you write that Republicans should sit up and demand more transparency from their candidates and from their Government.

I'd hardly call the current lot of republicans as notable, but transparency of ones personal life and that of government aren't equivalent.
 

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,132
382
126
Aren't republicans already transparent?

They want your dough. Not just a little bit of it or some of it either. But as much as they can get. Millions or billions...each. That's right, not as a collective but for each and every one of them.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
I'd hardly call the current lot of republicans as notable, but transparency of ones personal life and that of government aren't equivalent.

Good point. Transparency of our Government, with them using our money and acting in our name should always be transparent except in cases of national security.
Transparency of candidates personal/tax/business/school lives should apply equally to all candidates in all parties and is something I support strenuously.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,929
8,515
136
Good point. Transparency of our Government, with them using our money and acting in our name should always be transparent except in cases of national security.
Transparency of candidates personal/tax/business/school lives should apply equally to all candidates in all parties and is something I support strenuously.

Agree with you 100% with one proviso: It's equally important how one supports an idea and how they apply that same idea.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,387
5,004
136
Last time I checked there isn't a requirement to release your tax statements to anyone.

I would release my tax documents when Obama Uncovers all his transcripts etc he has had sealed.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,908
4,940
136
People want transparency from their politicians? That's like wanting to see women without any makeup or cosmetic products on. Not a pretty sight!
 

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,132
382
126
People want transparency from their politicians? That's like wanting to see women without any makeup or cosmetic products on. Not a pretty sight!

I've seen women without makeup that are a pretty sight.

Would you rather a woman with makeup and not know what she's hiding?

Or a woman without makeup so that all is revealed?

To quote Jack Nicholson, it seems like you're saying you can't handle the truth.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,368
6,503
136
The issue I have with the story on Newt is that it was released the second time just a couple of days before the primary. The first time the story came out was a dozen years back, yet it's presented as if it were discovered yesterday.
Honestly, the entire process of vilification is getting old. I'm sick of spin, sick of half truths, sick of feigned outrage, sick of double standards. I'm not happy with any of the republican candidates, and I'm even less happy with the POTUS.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
These people really fall for this stuff.

And the people fall for this.

It's just bizarre that the candidate with the worst violations of the proclaimed 'values' is thriving anyway and even benefiting from the issue by pulling this propaganda.

Show me a demagogue, and I'll show you the enemy he uses to get power and support.

Republicans were right to boo Romney for weaseling, and wrong to applaud him for weaseling against Democrats.

When you say "people" please make that "Republicans".

For the most part Liberal Democrats do not fall for this hypocrisy.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
...I would release my tax documents when Obama Uncovers all his transcripts etc he has had sealed.
Birtherism, phase two: the conviction that Barack Obama graduated Harvard Law magna cum laude solely on the basis of affirmative action...
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,368
6,503
136
Romney had his entire Governorship not just sealed but erased.

That right there should be grounds for him being banned from any Politics in this country.

Isn't Romney the fellow who put all his money in a blind trust when he ran for Governor? I thought that was the accepted method of separating the cash from the candidate?
 

marvdmartian

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2002
5,444
27
91
Here's a hint for Republicans, Democrats, Independents, whoever......

THEY ALL LIE. Anyone who makes a career out of politics will eventually say whatever it takes to get themselves re-elected to their present office, or elected to a higher office.

Anyone who believes otherwise is only fooling themselves. :rolleyes:
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
14
81
Hint to Democrats: message that Republicans are "all bad" is a good lie for selling the idea that left-wing media is going to be fair.

Too bad you don't demand the same transparency from Obama that you demand from the Republican candidates and that he promised the people of this nation.

That said, there is enough merit in what you write that Republicans should sit up and demand more transparency from their candidates and from their Government.

I agree not all are bad just most of them.

;)