A Heavily Armed Citizenry Is A Virtue

[ShintaiDK]

They've tried that. It doesn't work.

(Criminals ignore gun laws.. shocking, I know. )



That will be as successful as making states drug-free has been.



The constitution has a mechanism in it for making changes -- the amendment process. Anyone who wants to "overhaul" it is welcome to propose amendments.

Getting them passed is another matter.

With a dysfunctional political environment. Nothing is possible.

It does work and it takes time to get guns out of society. Guns allow people who otherwise lack the balls to commit crimes. Also when you know the chance someone else got a gun, you escalate the crime/conflict already.

When its possible in all other industrialized nations. I am sure its possible in the US too. Tho it might soon be deemed a developing country. In that case you are excused.

 

[dmens]

Guns allow people who otherwise lack the balls to commit crimes.

Indeed, all political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The biggest criminals all wear suits and work in government offices.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

When its possible in all other industrialized nations. I am sure its possible in the US too. Tho it might soon be deemed a developing country. In that case you are excused.

If you really want to understand how things work here, I'm happy to discuss it with you.

If you just want to sneer, there's not much point.

 

[ShintaiDK]

If you really want to understand how things work here, I'm happy to discuss it with you.

If you just want to sneer, there's not much point.

I dont. I just dont want the "guns dont kill" chant packed in.

So explain to me why the US is so different from all the other industrialized nations?

 

[Screech]

So explain to me why the US is so different from all the other industrialized nations?

1. A lot more guns easily available (hard to legislate this away)
2. Lots of gang violence in cities, partly in turf battles and the like, partly with drug war type stuff. You can legalize drugs to fight part of it (think of how much organized crime there is for alcohol now vs when it was banned) but the rest, I'm not sure.
3. A more violent society generally in regards to guns.....look at what goes on in the movies we make
4. edit: mental health and lack of socialized medicine you often find elsewhere

 

[monovillage]

The only problem being you don't have a militia. You have a mob of loose cannons.

Perhaps a little baby snot wad like yourself can give us a definition of a militia? I would think that a Mr. Pedantic could come up with a proper definition?

 

[monovillage]

I dont. I just dont want the "guns dont kill" chant packed in.

So explain to me why the US is so different from all the other industrialized nations?

Why would you care? How about you shut the fuck up about our gun laws and I won't make fun of your Queen Margrethe.

 

[ShintaiDK]

1. A lot more guns easily available (hard to legislate this away)
2. Lots of gang violence in cities, partly in turf battles and the like, partly with drug war type stuff. You can legalize drugs to fight part of it (think of how much organized crime there is for alcohol now vs when it was banned) but the rest, I'm not sure.
3. A more violent society generally in regards to guns.....look at what goes on in the movies we make
4. edit: mental health and lack of socialized medicine you often find elsewhere

If we look away from the obvious issue of the guns.

Then I am not sure legalize drugs would help. I fear its more due to that americans get locked into social layers. And the ladder usually only go downwards unless you really win the lottery.

Lack of free education at all levels is clearly one of the issues there as well (unskilled labour is going out, so no job there.). Plus the situation and pay for the lower class is essentially slavery.

Lack of public healthcare (And welfare you could add) as well there as you mention. 45mio americans now live in poverty. And all that will force some to do what they else wouldnt.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Why would you care? How about you shut the fuck up about our gun laws and I won't make fun of your Queen Margrethe.

Feel free to make whatever fun you wish.

I am all for free speech, unlike you.

 

[Screech]

If we look away from the obvious issue of the guns.

Then I am not sure legalize drugs would help. I fear its more due to that americans get locked into social layers. And the ladder usually only go downwards unless you really win the lottery.

Lack of free education at all levels is clearly one of the issues there as well (unskilled labour is going out, so no job there.). Plus the situation and pay for the lower class is essentially slavery.

Lack of public healthcare (And welfare you could add) as well there as you mention. 45mio americans now live in poverty. And all that will force some to do what they else wouldnt.

Aye, lack of social mobility is likely a contributing factor. We are still paying, and will continue to pay into eternity, for outsourcing the middle class.

 

[monovillage]

Feel free to make whatever fun you wish.

I am all for free speech, unlike you.

Then answer the question, why would you as a citizen of the Kingdom of Denmark care about the gun laws and the 2nd Amendment in the United States?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Aye, lack of social mobility is likely a contributing factor. We are still paying, and will continue to pay into eternity, for outsourcing the middle class.

Outsourcing lower jobs is actually fine. Either that or productivity increases. But the issue is new higher payed jobs wasnt created, either in a new sector or by productivity increase.

Most likely because the workforce is uneducated and unable to apply for those jobs. Some american companies scream for qualified skilled workers, but even with the high unemployment they aint able to find any. Whenever someone is unemployed and cant find a new job for say 6 months, then its back to school to upgarde the qualifications and skills. But when you cant afford the education, then you sit in the negative feedback cyclus.

China for example is outsoucring to Vietnam and so on now. But they dont make the same mistake.

 

[Agent11]

We have the right to bear arms in our constitution, that is the difference between the US and other nations.

You may not like or understand it, but you don't have to.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Then answer the question, why would you as a citizen of the Kingdom of Denmark care about the gun laws and the 2nd Amendment in the United States?

Empathy.

 

[Screech]

Outsourcing lower jobs is actually fine. Either that or productivity increases. But the issue is new higher payed jobs wasnt created, either in a new sector or by productivity increase.

Most likely because the workforce is uneducated and unable to apply for those jobs. Some american companies scream for qualified skilled workers, but even with the high unemployment they aint able to find any. Whenever someone is unemployed and cant find a new job for say 6 months, then its back to school to upgarde the qualifications and skills. But when you cant afford the education, then you sit in the negative feedback cyclus.

China for example is outsoucring to Vietnam and so on now. But they dont make the same mistake.

[Off topic]Sometimes this is true. Other times "we can't find anybody to work this job" actually translates to "we can't find anybody to work this job for the low wage we are willing to pay them" or "H1Bs work better and cheaper than you guys, so no jobs4u" etc. But I digress.[/OT]

The thing is, I think all of this is contributing -- and simply banning a few guns here and there has been shown to be completely ineffectual at actually tackling these sorts of things. The most effective crime reducing measure ever passed in the US was Roe V Wade. (flame suit on)...

 

[Charles Kozierok]

So explain to me why the US is so different from all the other industrialized nations?

A lot of ways, but there are two of particular importance with respect to this discussion.

First, our history and traditions are largely based on notions of independence, freedom and individualism. We were founded as the result of a revolution against a monarch. In general, we have a more difficult time with trusting government and with accepting limits and restrictions on individual liberty than do other countries.

Second, our laws are based on the Constitution, which guarantees specific rights. We cannot, either legally or morally, simply ignore the dictates of that document.

 

[xj0hnx]

Empathy.

Don't need, or want it. Fact is, your opinion means nothing on this subject.

 

[ShintaiDK]

A lot of ways, but there are two of particular importance with respect to this discussion.

First, our history and traditions are largely based on notions of independence, freedom and individualism. We were founded as the result of a revolution against a monarch. In general, we have a more difficult time with trusting government and with accepting limits and restrictions on individual liberty than do other countries.

Second, our laws are based on the Constitution, which guarantees specific rights. We cannot, either legally or morally, simply ignore the dictates of that document.

In terms of the constitution. When was it last revised? In Denmark we first got our consitution in 1864. But its been revised several times to forfill the need in an ever modern society. Our current one is from 1953 and might need to be revised in the near future again.

In terms of the rebelillion, alot of other countries had the same event. Yet I can only recall one other republic with the same law.

So it must be something else, demographics? The negative feedback cyclus?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

In terms of the constitution. When was it last revised? In Denmark we first got our consitution in 1864. But its been revised several times to forfill the need in an ever modern society. Our current one is from 1953 and might need to be revised in the near future again.

In terms of the rebelillion, alot of other countries had the same event. Yet I can only recall one other republic with the same law.

So it must be something else, demographics? The negative feedback cyclus?

The US Constitution has been revised several times however, there's not enough support to revise the 2nd amendment.

Here's the requirement to amend the constitution:

http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/a/amendments.htm

Article V of the Constitution outlines how to amend (modify) the document. It consists of two steps: proposal and ratification.

1. Propose An Amendment
Either Congress or the States can propose an amendment ot the Constitution.

• Both Houses of Congress must propose the amendment with a two-thirds vote. This is how all current amendments have been offered.
• Two-thirds of the State legislatures must call on Congress to hold a Constitutional Convention.

2. Ratify An Admendment
Regardless of how the amendment is proposed, it must be ratified by the States.

• Three-fourths of the State legislatures must approve of the amendment proposed by Congress, or
• Three-fourths of the states must approve the amendment via ratifying conventions. This method has only been used once, to repeal Prohibition (21st Amendment).

Is there a timeline for ratification? The US Supreme Court has held that ratification must happen within "some reasonable time after the proposal." Since the 18th Amendment, Congress has set a term of seven years for ratification.

Only 33 amendments have received a two-thirds vote from both Houses of Congress. Of those, only 27 have been ratified by the States. Perhaps the most visible failure is the Equal Rights Amendment.


Article V

• The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

In terms of the constitution. When was it last revised? In Denmark we first got our consitution in 1864. But its been revised several times to forfill the need in an ever modern society. Our current one is from 1953 and might need to be revised in the near future again.

There is no provision for a complete rewrite of the US constitution in the way that has occurred in Denmark. The laws are just different.

Not all constitutions are the same. They have significant differences, and there's especially a difference between a constitutional monarchy like Denmark's and a republic like the US.

So it must be something else, demographics? The negative feedback cyclus?

Much of it is, as I said, societal differences. Your country doesn't have the history ours does. Your society is far more homogeneous. You don't have huge cities.

 

[Braznor]

Which proves nothing, other than your limited ability to think these things through.

Next!

Huh?

You must be full of self hate. So full of hate for yourself and your loved ones that you do not wish to defend them with a gun.

Only on ATOT .....

 

[cybrsage]

I dont. I just dont want the "guns dont kill" chant packed in.

So explain to me why the US is so different from all the other industrialized nations?

Easy, we know that guns don't kill people without a human operator. I know, does not seem logical that an inert chuck of metal and plastic cannot do anything on its own, but trust me, it cannot.

Since you now understand that a gun is not the problem, but rather a human, we can move onward.

The US is filled with very independent people. We are trained from birth to distrust our government and our fellow man. This is contrasted to many nations where people are trained from birth to cow-tow to their government and to believe their government is in the right. In the nations where the people are trained to be subservient, they recoil from the very thought of having a gun, and cannot fathom why anyone would want one to defend themselves - the government can do it for them after all! An "enlightened" nation with such a government might even ban lock blade knives because the only reason they exist (says this theoretical government) is to murder people and not actually protect your fingers when using the blade...

That is the big difference. The US was founded on rebellion and independence of the individual. As such, guns are a part of our society.

The problem comes when the independence goes to far and the individual decides that the only thing which matters is their own person gain, even if it means the death of other people for no other reason. That is what most of the inner cities of the larger cities have become in the US. That is why you see a higher murder rate with guns.

 

[cybrsage]

In terms of the constitution. When was it last revised? In Denmark we first got our consitution in 1864. But its been revised several times to forfill the need in an ever modern society. Our current one is from 1953 and might need to be revised in the near future again.

Our last revision was 1992.

 

[J-Money]

In what way does the 2nd amendment allow nukes and guns?



Wrong. You can'y carry nukes on each person. Nukes did not exist when the second amendment was written. Here is where you say "OMG THE ASSAULT WEAPONS WEREN'T AROUND THEN EITHER"!!!! Like some moronic twat. Making the leap from a musket gun to an automatic weapon would be conceivable but musket to nuke is fucking stretching to fit your agenda. Leaping from guns to nukes is like comparing traveling on a boat in the ocean to travel in space on a rocket. Both are means of travel but in entirely different worlds.

Just curious, do you think comparing guns and cars is ok though?

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

In terms of the constitution. When was it last revised? In Denmark we first got our consitution in 1864. But its been revised several times to forfill the need in an ever modern society. Our current one is from 1953 and might need to be revised in the near future again.

In terms of the rebelillion, alot of other countries had the same event. Yet I can only recall one other republic with the same law.

So it must be something else, demographics? The negative feedback cyclus?

This is a useless question. As you can see in this and other threads, the US Constitution has almost a mythical aspect. Nobody is going to change the original amendments, because it's associated with so much emotional baggage that touching anything remotely connected to it is met with cries of "why do you hate America" and "why do you hate freedom".