A heartbreaking and disturbing result of Trump's deterent policy at the border.

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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,993
13,519
136
Bless your heart, tug at some more bleeding heart strings. Open borders for all! Anyone with a pulse can come on in - No checks or security required!

Remind me, what industrialized country worth a shit does that? Oh yeah, none. Because they aren't incompetently stupid like OP.
This post explains so much.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
Bless your heart, tug at some more bleeding heart strings. Open borders for all! Anyone with a pulse can come on in - No checks or security required!

Remind me, what industrialized country worth a shit does that? Oh yeah, none. Because they aren't incompetently stupid like OP.
What a sad, little, insecure, weak "man." I just feel so much pity for folks like this.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,424
136
That's a terrible thing...if only the father had not tried to do such a stupid thing in an attempt to break US immigration laws. The human tragedy of such things is...tragic, but it's on the people who do such things.
I wouldn't have much sympathy for a burglar who was killed while breaking into a home...

Seeking asylum isn't breaking immigration laws, dumb ass.
 
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Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
9,452
12,988
146
Seeking asylum isn't breaking immigration laws, dumb ass.

I assumed he was referring to the attempt to cross at an unauthorized point, which happened to be what led to their demise. In any case, the rest of the post was shit in my opinion.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Put the squeeze of people trying to claim asylum at legal ports of entry people cross at more dangerous locations. Sadly a father and daughter drown attempting to cross the Rio Grande river. Trump want to intentionality make things so terrible for people trying to enter the country it discourages others.



View attachment 7728



https://apnews.com/2f8422c820104d6eaad9b73d939063a9
Can you provide data that demonstrates an increase or spike in border crossing deaths under Trump? Hypothermia and drowning are the two most common causes of border deaths. There are deserts and rivers along most of the border crossing zones.

The UN and Mexico track this data. It tends to fluctuate around 300 to 400 deaths a year. That’s not measurably changed under Trump. It peaked in 2005 at around 500 deaths.

The photo is horrific, not unlike the one from Europe a few years ago.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,908
136
That's a terrible thing...if only the father had not tried to do such a stupid thing in an attempt to break US immigration laws. The human tragedy of such things is...tragic, but it's on the people who do such things.
I wouldn't have much sympathy for a burglar who was killed while breaking into a home...
You missed the part where he tried to follow immigration laws and come in through a port of entry. Trump has set up a situation where the POE's are overwhelmed. Its part of his punitive deterrents.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
27,650
26,748
136
That's a terrible thing...if only the father had not tried to do such a stupid thing in an attempt to break US immigration laws. The human tragedy of such things is...tragic, but it's on the people who do such things.
I wouldn't have much sympathy for a burglar who was killed while breaking into a home...

If only the trump administration had not instituted policies that increased the desperation of people by making it much harder to seek asylum at a legal port of entry.
Your burglar comment is just shit.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,908
136
Can you provide data that demonstrates an increase or spike in border crossing deaths under Trump? Hypothermia and drowning are the two most common causes of border deaths. There are deserts and rivers along most of the border crossing zones.

The UN and Mexico track this data. It tends to fluctuate around 300 to 400 deaths a year. That’s not measurably changed under Trump. It peaked in 2005 at around 500 deaths.

The photo is horrific, not unlike the one from Europe a few years ago.
I never said that. What I said is Trump's policy is designed as punishment to people attempting to immigrate across the Southern border.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,993
13,519
136
That's a terrible thing...if only the father had not tried to do such a stupid thing in an attempt to break US immigration laws. The human tragedy of such things is...tragic, but it's on the people who do such things.
I wouldn't have much sympathy for a burglar who was killed while breaking into a home...
They were waiting in line, gave up cause conditions, got a deal with Mexico and tried to get back... Cause they were dying. On your border. Its fcking desperate people... Id like to see you keep your fucking cool in a fucked up situation... wanna bet you panic before these folks?
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
That title says this death is the result of Trump's policy. That father and daughter attempted to cross at a legal port of entry and were turned away.
The death was the result of drowning. Ellis Island was a legal point of entry and turned people away. As I said, illegal border crossings are perilous, but there’s been no spike in deaths under Trump’s policy. I honestly expected the data would reveal an increase in border deaths, but that has not been the case.

This death is the result of a crisis at the border that may or not be a crisis, depending on the narrative du jour.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,085
37,270
136
The death was the result of drowning. Ellis Island was a legal point of entry and turned people away. As I said, illegal border crossings are perilous, but there’s been no spike in deaths under Trump’s policy. I honestly expected the data would reveal an increase in border deaths, but that has not been the case.

This death is the result of a crisis at the border that may or not be a crisis, depending on the narrative du jour.

The rejection rate at Ellis was low single digits. These people were reportedly not even being allowed to present themselves to US authorities due to the administration policy of "metering" which is designed to dissuade asylum seekers. Nobody doubted that these policies would lead to more crossings outside ports of entry.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
The rejection rate at Ellis was low single digits. These people were reportedly not even being allowed to present themselves to US authorities due to the administration policy of "metering" which is designed to dissuade asylum seekers. Nobody doubted that these policies would lead to more crossings outside ports of entry.
I would expect the number of deaths to significantly increase due to people attempting illegal crossings. The crossing into Arizona is especially treacherous.

Asylum seekers need to present themselves at a point of entry. We all know that Trump is using processing time as a deterrent. Europe is struggling with a similar issue. Frustrations are high in Greece because refugees are getting queued in place.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,085
37,270
136
I would expect the number of deaths to significantly increase due to people attempting illegal crossings. The crossing into Arizona is especially treacherous.

Asylum seekers need to present themselves at a point of entry. We all know that Trump is using processing time as a deterrent. Europe is struggling with a similar issue. Frustrations are high in Greece because refugees are getting queued in place.

Now that we are into summer, yes. Quite likely that far more people are crossing very inhospitable territory. We probably won't have a good gauge on the deaths for a while but my suspicion is that they will be higher than normal. One significant factor is that asylum applicants have no idea when or even if their claims will be heard leading them to take greater and greater risks as restrictive policies ratchet up.

None of Trump's deterrent policies have worked and it's very likely his rhetoric and policies have worsened the situation. The idea obviously is that if we make the treatment of asylum seekers so cruel that word will get back to the home country and people won't come. So far this has been a dismal failure and only convinces the administration that ever harsher policies are required and the cycle repeats. Eventually the US public will likely not be able to stomach what that could look like, similar to the incredibly reckless family separation program.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,908
136
The death was the result of drowning. Ellis Island was a legal point of entry and turned people away. As I said, illegal border crossings are perilous, but there’s been no spike in deaths under Trump’s policy. I honestly expected the data would reveal an increase in border deaths, but that has not been the case.

This death is the result of a crisis at the border that may or not be a crisis, depending on the narrative du jour.
We went from a 50 year low of border crossings under Obama to what we have now.
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
We went from a 50 year low of border crossings under Obama to what we have now.
There’s been a shift in the demographics of who is seeking entrance. There is a growing trend of families seeking asylum, a trend exasperated by factors well beyond who is in the White House, and one that will not magically go away once Trump is gone.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,908
136
There’s been a shift in the demographics of who is seeking entrance. There is a growing trend of families seeking asylum, a trend exasperated by factors well beyond who is in the White House, and one that will not magically go away once Trump is gone.
So you are trying to tell me Once Obama left office demographics magically shifted?

Did you take into consideration Trump cutting funding for these South American countries exacerbated the problem?
 
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UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,937
9,220
136
Bless your heart, tug at some more bleeding heart strings. Open borders for all! Anyone with a pulse can come on in - No checks or security required!

Remind me, what industrialized country worth a shit does that? Oh yeah, none. Because they aren't incompetently stupid like OP.

How convenient for you to ignore 250+ years of American history just because they people coming over these days are brown.

If the relatively open borders is such a pressing issue, why didn’t anyone care until 2014?

Also, you’re being deliberately obtuse with your “no checks or security required” comment—these people are literally trying to present themselves at legal ports of entry and being turned away by authorities.
 
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TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
So you are trying to tell me Once Obama left office demographics magically shifted?

Did you take into consideration Trump cutting funding for these South American countries exacerbated the problem?
There's definitely truth to what he says. Climate change is likely responsible for a drought (now 5 years or something?) that is devastating the agrarian areas of Central America and driving exodus.
 

Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
9,452
12,988
146
How convenient for you to ignore 250+ years of American history just because they people coming over these days are brown...

...Also, you’re being deliberately obtuse with your “no checks or security required” comment—

It's called being a dishonest shithead. He's pro.
 
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Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,859
4,976
126
Bless your heart, tug at some more bleeding heart strings. Open borders for all! Anyone with a pulse can come on in - No checks or security required!

Remind me, what industrialized country worth a shit does that? Oh yeah, none. Because they aren't incompetently stupid like OP.

Exactly who is suggesting the bolded?
Seriously, I want to know where you are hearing that from. Who is telling you that people are suggesting that should be the practice.
 
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glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
There’s been a shift in the demographics of who is seeking entrance. There is a growing trend of families seeking asylum, a trend exasperated by factors well beyond who is in the White House, and one that will not magically go away once Trump is gone.

You mean there's a difference between illegal immigration patterns of:

(A) The almost exclusively adult aged male Mexican migrant workers (who didn't typically expect to stay permanently, but rather work then return home at some point) of the 1980s and 1990s, vs.

(B) Today's cohorts of far more families and unaccompanied minors from non-Mexico countries who are primarily seeking permanent residence via asylum or other claims?


Who knew those things might be different from one another.

vaughan-border-asylum-claims-f1.png
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,085
37,270
136
There's definitely truth to what he says. Climate change is likely responsible for a drought (now 5 years or something?) that is devastating the agrarian areas of Central America and driving exodus.

Coffee farmers in Guatemala for example are fleeing their farms due to climate shifting enabling the spread of coffee rust and low commodity prices as Brazil floods the market. Prolonged bouts of extreme weather also are weighing on them.

Withdrawal of limited US aid is sure to accelerate this.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,908
136
I would expect the number of deaths to significantly increase due to people attempting illegal crossings. The crossing into Arizona is especially treacherous.

Asylum seekers need to present themselves at a point of entry. We all know that Trump is using processing time as a deterrent. Europe is struggling with a similar issue. Frustrations are high in Greece because refugees are getting queued in place.
Hey, let me clue into something genius. We do know border crossings are sharply up under Trump. Since Trump set up a scenario that overwhelms ports of entry. People are resorting to more dangerous paths.

Want to know how that father and daughter died? He initially got the little girl across the river. Went back to retrieve mother. The daughter didn't understand and went back into the river to be with dad. He saw her and turned around. They both were swept away by the current.