A few thoughts on the irrationality of debate and the right-wing advantage in name-calling

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Long ago, I had a small epiphany at a county fair, when I saw the booths for the democrats and the republicans. First, the democratic booth had little thingies with their keywords on what the party was about - prosperity, fairness, and such - and then the republicans had the same sort of thing, but in the form of a 'you're a republican if...', with a series of questions which pretty much anyone but a monster would end up agreeing with (e.g., if you're for a strong nation...), and therefore concluding they must be a republican.

It clarified a fairly basic and obvious point, that the purpose of the marketing was not to accurately explain what the parties were about, but rather to recruit members. Any casual citizen who ran across the material was intended to see it and like the message and therefore decide he was a democrat or republican. It was hardly intending to really inform them on the parties' agendas, much less deal with controversial issues. It was nasty and misleading.

Further, the idea is to get people to 'self-identify' with the 'brand' of the party, to internalize it to their own characteristics. If they love justice, they're a democrat; if they hate big brother government, they're a republican; this further becomes if they are a 'giving person who tries to do good for others, they are a democrat, and if they're someone who has responsibility and doesn't wait for handouts, they're a republican, and so on, making the identification 'personal'.

High end auto makers try to do the same thing, by linking their brand to personal traits, sometimes with embarrassingly clumsy marketing such as Mercedes commercials which show the smooth, attractive person driving one, while their goofy ugly neighbor watches jealously. If you want to be smooth and not a dolt, you should drive Mercedes, and people spend thousands of dollars to feel that emotional 'benefit'.

A broad point is the effect this has on the political debate in the public, how it reduces it, how it makes it emotional and personal, because people take any criticisms of their party's political views as attacks on these personal traits they've come to identify themselves with. If they agree with the other side, they're abandoning who they are, to an extent.

Let me set up the more specific point I'd like to make, though, with an observation that the republicans consist of two very different groups. One is the large majority of republican voters, the ones who are the targets of the marketing above, the ones who are 'just trying to do the right thing for their country', who are republicans because of the nice little messages on the country fair card. They might be the religious right, or the 'fiscal conservatives/small government wing', or the 'individual rights' wing, etc.

The second group, though, is a group who has a different agenda, and which has 'taken over' the republican party because they need to get elected to have power in the democracy. This group puts out no marketing, fails to debate their issues publically and honestly - they merely work their agenda, and 'play the political game' by having a PR machine which turns out the public messages needed to, preferably, make the public not notice what they're doing and, if that's not possible, to make it look like a good thing.

Now, I can lay out the main point I'm wanting to make: that the public debate of issues is greatly crippled by the simplest of mechanics: the fact that the second group, because they are basically unnamed as a group, *cannot* be discussed in normal political discussion, and any attempt to do so is likely to end up instead using the term 'republicans', and then you are instead talking against all the many average republican voters, with their county fair agenda, a battle you can't win, instead of the second group.

Think about the point for a moment. Is it possible that the simplest of facts, the lack of a name for the second group, has a powerful effect on the public debate of issues?

I'm going to say it seems so. The left has countless demonizing traits - easy names (democrats, the left, the far left, the liberals, the radical left, the moonbats, and more.)

It has its 'poster children' to hate; the Jane Fondas, Barbra Streisands and Michael Moores. It's set up as a target so easy to demonize that it's largely a knee-jerk hatred.

But let's say two average citizens wanted to criticize the 'second group' of republicans above, the ones who are out pushing the agenda of crony spending, borrowing, a class warfare which is radically shifting the wealth of the nation into the hands of a few bringing back a very class-based society, etc. There's no handy name for the 'second group'. The discussion is likely to say 'republicans' - and that immediately brings onto the table all of the 'average' republicans, and you are now attacking the county fair attributes.

Sure, they could take the time to spend several sentences defining the terms to distinguish between the groups, but almost no one does that in casual discussion.

The result is that the second group becomes virtually invisible - if you can't name it, you can't discuss it and target it and hate it and build the public opposition to it.

It seems to me that this really is preventing the proper discussion of issues. If the democrats put forth a plan that gives a $150B windfall to their base, it's easy to say what they're doing and fit it into the preconceived stereotype - they get blamed for it even if they don't do it. But let's take the agenda item to keep the drug companies' financial support for the party, by giving them a $150B windfall paid for by the public in an undeclared tax, on borrowed money.

When the program was announced, there was no mention by them of the fact that they prohibited the government from negotiating prices, as the VA does, the effect of which is to pay $150B more for the drugs than otherwise, all profit. It was left up to the 'critics' and 'liberal media' to find and try to make an issue of that fact. They had buried it in the overall program, which killed multiple political birds with one stone, giving them talking points about helping the seniors - helping to dilute the democrats' getting all the credit for that - as well as to secure the loyalty of this large industry to their political base.

If republican voters wanted to criticize this, they had to get past that it seemed to only be the democrats, who they can't stand, saying anything bad about it; and the fact that their own leaders were telling them a *huge* lie. It was hitler who noted that effective lies are often because they are so big they're hard for people to believe; when the second group is saying over and over and over that they're the party against big government, it's difficult for many voters to conclude they're lying.

To this day, I see few republicans who will say Bush is a 'big liar', and they instead, while they've begun to be more critical, torture themselves to find other explanations.

So, in short, in our nation, we currently have a 'real war' and a 'phony war'. The 'real war' is the class of the ultra wealthy, pursuing an agenda which is barely heard of in public, and which is radically shifting our nation outside the process of democracy since people are unaware. The 'phony war' is the one about issues people think they're solving - abortion, gun control, higher taxes, illegal immigration but really more basic ones like 'big government' and 'appeasment' and such.

How do a few people 'conquer' the large majority who are less well off? One way is to split the large group against each other. While they're all occupied fighitng the 'democrat vs. republican' war, they're not noticing the 'real war' much. And it feeds on itself; it's not as if the big 'news magazines' are ordered what to print, but as long as the 'phony war' is going on, it's what people will buy, and that controls the content.

Which is going to sell more - a cover story on the redistribution of wealth to the top, or a cover story on something sexy?

In fact, one factor for the Iraq war may have been to create an issue for the 'phony way' to distract the public's attention from the second group's agenda going on quietly.

At the end of the day, you would not be surprised if I cited some statistics showing 0.1% of the population at the top seeing their income shoot up hundreds of percent while the rest of the nation was flat over the last couple decades - but the fact that you can't begin to tell me the specific facts, that it's not something you are doing anything about, while you know all about the 'phony war' issues, says it all as to how well they're doing at the agenda not being about the 'real war'.

If we just had a name for the second group widely used in America, it would go a long way towards being able to criticize and reduce their power, to seperate them from the rest of the republicans who are just unable to do so on their own and who mostly continue to vote the party line because 'the democrats are worse', allowing their party to be hijacked for decades in the meantime.

(To hear from a conservative who is able to make the distinction between the first and second groups of republicans, and who reacted by leaving the party he helped bring to national power, read Kevin Phillips. Even more helpful, he's written books detailing the situation and the betrayal. This after he was Nixon's campaign manager in the great southern re-alignment in the 1968 election).

The terms we have are inadequate. 'Neocon' includes too many intellectuals not part of the core group, and pretty much entirely excludes the domestic agenda. 'Wingnuts' is a blog pejorative which refers more to the followers who blindly follow the right-wing ideology than to the people really behind the agenda. We just lack a name for the powerful group who has 'taken over' the republican party and gotten elected on top of it, to enact radical policies in our nation.

And the lack of political debate, in no small part because of the simple lack of a name for the group, greatly hampers the democratic discussion process.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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I consider the ?second group? to be the bane of Liberty. Of Libertarians like myself. I identify them as big government Authoritarians, and they span across both political parties. They want higher taxes and bigger government because then abominations like the Patriot Act can be passed. If the government was smaller and more in check by the states, then such trash couldn?t make it into law.

It?s somewhat depressing to not actually have a party to combat and remove the Authoritarians from government.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
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Originally posted by: Craig234
[ Great stuff trimmed for brevity ... ]

The terms we have are inadequate. 'Neocon' includes too many intellectuals not part of the core group, and pretty much entirely excludes the domestic agenda. 'Wingnuts' is a blog pejorative which refers more to the followers who blindly follow the right-wing ideology than to the people really behind the agenda. We just lack a name for the powerful group who has 'taken over' the republican party and gotten elected on top of it, to enact radical policies in our nation.

And the lack of political debate, in no small part because of the simple lack of a name for the group, greatly hampers the democratic discussion process.
I think you're right on the mark. In my experience, as an early critic of the Bush administration and its core supporters, it has been very difficult to discuss the specific group responsible for the problems (IMO) without digressing into a longish explanation of who I'm targeting. I have tried to avoid attacking "Republicans" in general for the very reasons you mention. The problem lies primarily with the small core who hijacked the party, not the majority of people who call themselves Republicans. I've settled on referring to "Bushies" or "the Bush faithful" as shorthand, though that's not entirely satisfactory either. In many ways, Bush is merely a tool of this core, a distraction to draw attention from those pulling his strings behind the scene.

Nice OP.
 

Conky

Lifer
May 9, 2001
10,709
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Originally posted by: bamacre
I didn't read your OP because you spelled "irrationality" incorrectly.
Blame whoever's opinion piece he "cut and pasted". :p

 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Bowfinger, thank you very much for the nice response. It sounds like we see the same issue. And you're right, Bushies is inadequate for two reasons, one because it inaccurately implies that the source of the Bush policies is Bush, and second because it implies that the same group won't need a name come 2008 and later when Bush is out.

I may need to do some research about how progressives in the 1900's or the democrats in the 1930's dealt with this issue, since they criticized the same 'group 2' a lot.

Jaskalas, I'm glad we agree in your first sentence; that ends when you say that the two parties are equivalent in being home to the 'group 2' crowd.

It's too long a topic to lay out the evidence why I disagree with you, but I do. I'd again point you to Kevin Phillips for a fine set of evidence on the issue.

Bamacre, thanks for catching my mistyping. It's corrected.

Beachboy, I assume you were making a random joke and not any serious accusation?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
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We just lack a name for the powerful group who has 'taken over' the republican party and gotten elected on top of it, to enact radical policies in our nation.
I have an issue with this simple-minded partisanship when, while you might hear about Democrats protesting against certain Bush policies, you don't see Democratic politicians actually voting against those policies. And silly me, I always vote Dem hoping that they will.

So what you come to is a real disconnect, the "great distraction" as I call it. Faithful voters of both major parties think that their parties stand for things that in fact they do not, while bitter people argue furiously on the internet and in the newspapers and on TV of subtleties of partisanship and ideology, to the effect of creating enough distraction to quell all hope of preventing this "powerful group" from accomplishing their goals. The "voice of reason" (whatever that may be) becomes lost, unable to shout over the din of the sheep.


edit: Pardon me, you may resume your usual name-calling and ranting. Will I be an ideologue or a wingnut this time, Craig? ;)
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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Interesting idea, but I see a slightly different meaning in the purpose of the party "branding". The idea behind such marketing isn't to get the target to self-identify with the thing being marketed so much as it is to make him feel he WILL have those characteristics if he "consumes" what's being marketed. This type of marketing is extremely effective because a large number of people need confirmation from others that they posses certain characteristics and hold certain beliefs.

Take the Republican marketing message that Republicans are strong on defense. That is not an appeal to people who ARE in favor of strong defense, it is an appeal to people who want to appear strong on defense. If someone really does believe in strong national defense, they will agree with the Republicans so far as the Republicans agree with them...in areas where the Republicans do not match that person's views, he won't support the Republicans. The latter kind of person, in contrast, will support any idea, no matter how silly, if the Republicans put it forward, because he is strong on defense only so long as the he agrees with the Republicans...because they obviously are always strong on defense, their marketing materials say so.

This latter kind of supporter is far more useful, because he doesn't analyze what you tell him. This is EXACTLY what the Republicans have become very good at marketing...especially when it comes to "national security". Republicans are, by definition, "strong" on national security (or so they've convinced a lot of their supporters), so anything they do must be strong...and anything they DON'T support must be "weak". No need to come up with reasonable policies to maintain support, just feed them bullshit and TELL them it's not.

Of course that doesn't work on as many people as some might think, but it works on enough to be worth doing. The Dems haven't found their "image" yet, and this is a weakness on their part.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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Craig234 is perfectly capable of writing that piece, Beachboy, so, unless you have proof to the contrary, perhaps you'd care to pull down your pants and take a flying leap at a rolling donut...

And, yeh, what's described is the class warfare of the ultra-wealthy against the rest of us, the financiers of the ultra-right thinktanks peddling their poison. Their marketing is terrific- people think that they're "conservative", even when they're not, and that anything with a conservative label tacked on must be good... It's like a Ford guy buying a Pinto, then going into denial when it turns out to be junk...

Perhaps the best example is the fearmongering about the "Death Tax" spread by America's wealthiest families... as if most Americans have a prayer of paying any... blocking reform in hopes of eliminating it entirely, which would benefit only them...

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/04/25/estate-18/

Just try to remember that when they start talking about "values" that they're really talking about "money"...
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
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Branding exists for the purpose of establishing an identity with the customer. The desire is to have the customer live vicariously through the branded product. "I'm a democrat/republican because I believe in <insert buzzword here>." "Nike shoes make me run faster." "We're a Nascar family." When a city's sports team wins a national championship, its citizens are joyous. Why? They are not the team. They didn't actually win anything. Answer: branding.