A few reasons why I'm migrating from MS to Linux...

[Leo V]

I've been asked to name a few reasons why I'm moving to Linux; the answer became a bit long, so it's here now.

I'm not simply being a "MS bad, Linux good" grassroots fanatic who thinks everything should be free. Here are the main reasons I'm finding it necessary to go to the pains of learning a whole new OS.

I've reached my tolerance limit with MS bugs, incompatibility, and vulnerability. I've installed/tweaked/used/developed under Win95/95A/B/C, Win98/98SE, WinNT Workstation SP1-6, and Win2000. Of all these, I've grown to loathe Win9x and pity anyone who uses it for work--Microsoft deserves a Guinness record for an unprecedented lack of stability. And don't anyone dare accuse me of incompetent setup.

NT came closest to being stable/robust, at the expense of functionality and hardware support. Win2000, while reasonably stable (though certainly less so than NT), has serious problems with beyond-NT functionality (DirectX, certain multimedia codecs, etc). This makes running games under Win2K a degrading experience. Now, please don't give me any "W2K wasn't made for games" BS. If everything was functioning properly, as it should in a paid-for OS, well-written apps would RUN and not CRASH. After a generation or two of Win2000 drivers, I can safely say that the OS is at fault, not the OEM's. But of course, the closed-source model doesn't allow disgruntled users to fix the problem when the corporations don't deem it worthwhile. My grief with incompatibility reached a new peak when I couldn't get MS applications to run under Microsoft's own, supported operating system.

2) The very basic design of Windows is severely flawed. The registry and the horrible, tangled file structure causes the OS folder to become bloated with every install/uninstall, steadily making the OS slower and slower. MS recommends a disk wipe and reinstall every 6 months, for a good reason. Obviously, you can't hope to run a program from a different Windows installation without some registry surgery.

3) I've gathered a lot of information from the 'net and acquaintances about Linux. Basically, about its unparalleled stability thanks to a distributed effort at making the Linux kernel impeccable; its rational file structure that allows one to use Linux for years without reinstalling (sometimes even REBOOTING!) The presense of excellent free open-source tools and apps, some of which are considered superior to expensive MS Windows alternatives (Apache amongst others). The fact that it's impossible for a suspicious application like RealPlayer to quietly run undetected somewhere while sending covert packets with your personal information to RealNetworks. You get the idea.

Granted, I'll take a while to become familiar, and my OpenGL skills will need a lot of practice after much D3D work. (I'll keep Win98SE around for games.)

But I truly hope that this effort isn't wasted.
--Leo V

 

[Sohcan]

Wow, back for a day and you already have two rants

Linux/Unix/Solaris will always be my primary OS for most of my work (and the occasional Q3A and UT game), but I keep Win2K around for Diablo 2, Starcraft, and AOE 2.

 

[ltk007]

Not another windows bad Linux good thread. Lets face, everyone knows everything you have already said. We know windows has some severe problems and Microsoft won't or can't fix them. But there is one severe flaw in Linux that I'll never get past. Nothing runs on it! What's the point of an OS if all you can do is surf the net and do word processing. Despite what some Linux fanatics might think, there is more to computing. I gave Linux a shot, and the fact is it just didn't have what I wanted and most users feel the same way. Win2k is a good solution and should only get better as the lazy microsoft programmers slowly refine it. Linux might be a fun hobby, but I wouldn't want it as my only OS.


(BTW, I like BeOS better).

 

[Leo V]

Sohcan: I've been grumpy lately Yes, I ultimately plan to keep dual-boot Linux and Win98SE on my workstation (I've had better luck w/games under Win9x).

ltk007: sorry man, didn't have time to read this board recently. I was really answering someone's question.

For me, the only serious non-game software loss is Photoshop (I don't know any worthy alternatives). Otherwise, I can still program C++/OpenGL, and that's my #1 priority. All the generic apps (word proc/email/browsing) are available, and networking is far beyond Windows. So, while I anticipate drastic SW changes, I think it'll work out fine for me.

 

[Sohcan]

<< But there is one severe flaw in Linux that I'll never get past. Nothing runs on it! >>

No offense, but that's just the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) spread by MS...I would argue that GNU Unix has a much larger software base than Windows. Every app for Windows has a Unix port or Unix derivative. The only thing severly lacking in Unix is game support, but that's why you keep a Windows partition. Besides, the only game that really matters (Starcraft ) will run on Linux with WINE. Quake3 and Unreal Tournament also run in Linux, so what else do you need?

Visit this site for a Linux myth dispeller: http://www.eruditum.org/linux/myths/myth-dispeller.html
I'm not trying to be anti-MS...I like Win2k. But to say nothing runs on Linux is just BS.

If you're doing serious programming work, it is easier/faster/more productive to do so on a Unix platform. Linux provides a free opportunity to do so.

 

[Rogue]

Just to stoke the fire here a bit, Paul Thurott had a good point in a recent column. The whole reason NT exists is based on the fact that Unix was/is unstable and has just as many security holes.

Now, I will not argue that *nix has a place in computing, but Leo V, Linux is crashable. I have seen it crash hard on a few occasions, requiring a re-install. Linux is just as fallible as any other OS out there. The major problems with Windows don't reside so much in the OS itself, but with it's usage. Most Windows users install, uninstall, re-install various programs and over time, anything under that type of circumstance will wear out or break somehow. In simple terms, if you continuously turn a TV set on and off, on and off, over time things wear out or become non-functional at some level and require replacement. I will venture out to say that Linux and/or Unix do not suffer as much from this because once they are setup for their intended purpose/use, they are very rarely expected to do anything but that job. Windows however, is a multipurpose OS that is used for a whole gamut of things (games, programming, web-server, word-processing, web surfing, database server and on and on and on...). When's the last time you saw a Solaris server being used for more than one and maybe two tasks? You don't, and that's way. We have an NT 4.0 SP5 Proxy server that is far underpowered for the job it does and is has been running for well over 6 months now without a reboot. Natually, that is the ONLY thing that server does. It is completely hands-off from and software updates/installs, etc. You have already stated that you are going to use your Linux box primarily for programming. That has already added to the stability of your computer/OS, just that decision alone. See my point? I hope so, because I'm not pro-anyone really. I think both OS's are great, when used properly and for a specific/intended purpose and nothing else.

 

[Sohcan]

<< Now, I will not argue that *nix has a place in computing, but Leo V, Linux is crashable >>

That's true, and don't let any extreme Linux-fanatics fool you...Linux is about as stable as NT4 (but better than Win2K), especially if you're stupid enough to run as root. But that's why I like BSD and Solaris better. Linux can crash occasionally, but is rarely the fault of the OS, but rather the hardware or a poorly programmed application. And yes, running as root can seriously fsck the OS, requiring a reinstall.

 

[Leo V]

If I understand correctly, an operating system's stability can can be compromised by:
1) Faulty/incompatible hardware or firmware; nothing much the OS can do here
2) Unstable kernel; Linux seems to have no problems here
3) Faulty software drivers/packages; this depends on 3rd parties. Sure enough, many NVIDIA owners suffered crashes with NVIDIA's early closed-source drivers (though they're getting better)
4) Faulty software. If I understand correctly, software without root/high priveleges can be safely shut down without compromising the kernel.

It seems to me that, given robust hardware and drivers, Linux should be able to run indefinitely (shy of any OS-level modifications). I could be wrong, though. Please enlighten me.

 

[Francodman]

HEy leo v, try Gimp, it is freakin amazing, and has filter support too!

 

[Rogue]

Counterpoints:

1) System board manufacturers release bad BIOS updates from time to time. How does Linux prevent this? Case in point, Intel recall on P3 1.13GHz processor that would not compile Linux kernel. How could Linux prevent this? You're right, no OS can. But that does not mean that Microsoft OS's are any less or more succeptible to these issues.

2) Unstable Kernels exist for Linux too. Why do you think there are so many different versions. Some work better than others. How is this different from Microsoft? Your GUI environment in Linux is the same story, only you have more than one that you have to test and run apps under. Would you rather mess with one GUI or several different ones each with different levels of compatibility and different version/revisions? I can't honestly say that the Windows kernel is 100% stable, but the same can't be said for Linux either.

3) Windows and Linux suffer from this equally. Windows is just more popular and in wider use, therefore it is perceived that there are more problems.

4) NT has this same capability. 95% of the time, if an app crashes under the NT environment, it doesn't affect the OS. I would venture to say the same for Linux/Unix.

All your points are completely valid, as are mine. The answer truly is robust hardware, software and drivers. This in combination with limiting your system/OS to a predefined role will almost always lend to stability and long term operation.

 

[RSI]

Linux... if only my CD worked...

 

[Leo V]

Rogue, I generally agree with you. I've mentioned how I had the best experiences with NT from the entire Windows family (stability-wise), so won't argue about NT vs. Linux stability from here on.

Francodman, I've tried using an older version of Gimp, and encountered some cumbersome limitations. I know it has newer versions, though, so I'll be sure to try it.

 

[Wingznut]

I have never used Linux... So call me naive on this subject.

Can I run the following apps on Linux: Newsgroup readers (Gravity, Agent), Visual Basic 6.0, Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, NFS5, FAKK2, Madden2001, NHL2001, Deus Ex, CDRwin, Napster, DiscJuggler, EZ-CD Creator Deluxe, Nero, Photoshop.

And how about my various peripherals: MS Sidewinder gamepad, MS Sidewinder FF USB wheel, Epson printer, Plustek scanner, MS Explorer USB mouse, USB keyboard.

If &quot;no&quot; is the answer to any of the above items, then I have absolutely no reason to switch OS's. It's an extremely rare event that my PC crashes. But when it does crash, I can't say for sure that it's a Windows issue, and not the application's fault.

Imho, WinME works extremely well (for me.)

Just my $.02.

 

[Soccerman]

&quot;Why do you think there are so many different versions.&quot;

because each version adds support for new hardware.

 

[Rogue]

I wish IE ran on Linux! That's really the only thing holding me back from it. I can't stand Nutscrape!!!

 

[squirrel dog]

Right on! Linux rocks the house,and it's a whole lot easier to learn now adays.Mandrake and Corel have along with others made installing and running Linux way easier.I use Mandrake.Good luck to you.

 

[Doomguy]

You can run many windows apps faster than windows with WINE in linux. Its lets windows apps run on top of X and many times its faster than windows in performance. It has some game support but its not perfect in the games section. The only unstable kernels you see are the beta kernels.

 

[Leo V]

Regarding NT vs. Linux stability:

I've just spoken with my Linux-savvy friend (actually, he has much experience programming under both Windows and various Unices). According to him, Linux is more stable than NT. The reason is that NT doesn't properly free/deallocate shared resources when faulty applications are terminated. Consequently, memory leaks are developed, inevitably leading to compromised performance/stability. Linux, on the other hand, doesn't have this problem.

One of his employers used Linux and NT-based, dedicated servers. The NT servers had to be rebooted once every 2 weeks, due to memory leak-related slowdowns. Some of their Linux servers ran for two years (until a prolonged power outage outlasted the UPS supplies). They never had to be rebooted due to compromised stability/performance.

 

[Sohcan]

LeoV: One of the main and often overlooked culprits of any sort of instability in Linux/Unix (apart from hardware, apps, etc) is X Windows, either on the part of the X server or the window manager. Many of the popular window managers, such as WindowMaker (my favorite), Blackbox, Enlightenment, and Desktop environments such as KDE and GNOME are often in various stages of alpha or beta testing. Linux servers, when run from the command line, can run indefinitely, but a Linux workstation can crash on rare occasions due to X.

Wingznut PEZ: No one said that Linux is for everyone...it will probably never develop into a mature gaming platform. But it's great for someone who wants to work in a GNU/Unix environment. If that's not for you, then more power to you.

And to answer your question, there are many various newsgroup readers, email clients, web browsers, CD-R burning programs, and image editing programs for Unix. Visual Basic is obviously a no-go, since it is designed to use Windows dlls and libraries. USB support is currently experimental, and will be finalized with the upcoming 2.4 kernel.

 

[Leo V]

Thanks for the clarification. It seems like the interface systems (including KDE/GNOME/other) are under heavy development indeed. On the bright side, this'll hopefully result in stable and more pleasant window environments. On the other hand, Microsoft seems to be abandoning NT in favour of Win2000 (its being 'NT5.0')

 

[Soccerman]

&quot;Thanks for the clarification. It seems like the interface systems (including KDE/GNOME/other) are under heavy development indeed.&quot;

yeah they've been in alpha and beta stages for a while.. enlightenment was last time I checked (when I ran Linux Mandrake 6.1).

ok, now the only thing holding ME personally back, is time (though that's not so bad), and hard drive space. time is needed to familarize ones self with how the GUI works, and where everything is. from there it becomes easier to configure your Linux to the best it can be.

&quot;And how about my various peripherals: MS Sidewinder gamepad, MS Sidewinder FF USB wheel, Epson printer, Plustek scanner, MS Explorer USB mouse, USB keyboard.&quot;

Intel and MS have all along been conspiring to keep OS's like Linux from working with all hardware. Winmodems are a classic example. USB also, though that is being fixed as we speak (I still hate USB, because it's another attempt to make teh CPU look more important, I'd rather have my system running at PEAK performance thank you very much).

 

[Remedy]

Soc, about that USB comment i agree 100 percent with you They need to go firewire from here on out. But i have a question about the Linux WINE thing. If you have some hardware that has only 9x drivers out for it and wanted to use the same hardware in linux enviroment and there were no linux drivers for it, could you like use the 9x drivers in WINE so that it could work in Linux? or is that a NO?

 

[Pete]

Rogue, I've used IE5 on Solaris, so I'd venture to guess they'd have a Linux port as well.

 

[oldfart]

Hi Leo V. I have run a few different Linux versions, and am currently running Mandrake 7.1. Mandrake is easy to install, and is very complete. You don't have to get a bunch of extra stuff once you install it. I've found KDE to be the best window manager. Gnome/Enlightenment is cool, but is crash happy. If you are running a low end system, Windowmaker is nice. It doesn't need as much power to run. As far as apps go. You'll be surprised how many great apps are available. For your MS office type program, get Star Office from www.sun.com. Its free, and is every bit as good as the MS stuff. For a web browser, you are pretty much stuck with Nutscrape :|. The Linux version is even worse that the Windows version. As far as stability goes, Linux basically will run forever. I have a client that has some DNS servers that are running Linux on basic Intel hardware, nothing special. These PC's have been up for about 3 YEARS without a reboot! Try that with any Windows box!

 

[HigherGround]

I was in your position about 4 months ago. After another Win2K blue screen and a few subsequent hard system lockups i decided to go with Linux as my primary every day use OS (I knew I would still use Win98 for games). Unfortunatly a few weeks later I bought GeForce 2 GTS, which at the time wasn't supported by XFree generic SVGA driver, so for the next month and a half I was slaving away in Win98. Finally Nvidia released the XFree 4.X compatible set of drivers with GTS support, so with that move I instantly decided to go back to Linux. This time I chose the acclaimed Mandrake 7.1 distro (I used RH 6.2 prior to my GTS purchase) and since that day i haven't looked back. The system is a joy to use and work with...during the last four weeks I was forced to reboot once (and that was my fault as I struggling to get the GTS driver to work) and software development (I'm a software developer for a large National Labolatory) is a pure joy. I even took upon myself to learn OpenGl (which has full DRI support via GLX) and the results are extremly promising. Quite possibly when I get more fluent with the API, I might replace the XRT based widget-set we use at work as our visualization based tools. Every day usage is also stellar...the system is highly customizable and every day I find myself tweaking portions of it just because it's so much fun. The only drawback is the browser situtation. Netscape simply sucks and the other browsers are seriously underpowered when compared to IE. As far as Netscape support, my browser (here and at work - thats right, I was so impressed that I got a Linux box at wotk) keeps crashing at rate of 3-4 times/day. Killing the process and restarting it works fine, but it's just annoying. My Address book at work is also acting wierd. I'm hoping that release 6 will fix the problems and make the Navigator usable again. Anyway, I think you'll be quite impressed and happy with Linux as Your main OS.