A few RAM/mobo/ATA questions...

[DJFuji]

1) What's the point of setting RAM timings more aggressively? Especially since they often result in a reduction of overclock potential. Is there a significant speed increase when running RAM at better timings?

2) I'm somewhat confused about RAM dual channel mode. Can't i just throw in a single PC3200 1gig DIMM into an ASUS K8V and save the other slot for a future 1gig upgrade? Or do i have to upgrade "in pairs" like old school SIMMs? As i understand it, i can't use the third (blue) slot unless i want to run the RAM at reduced speeds, correct?

3) ASUS.com says the k8v board has "The Promise 20378 RAID controller incorporated two Serial ATA and one parallel connectors with RAID 0, RAID 1 and RAID 0+1 functions while the VT8237 RAID controller provides another two Serial ATA connectors for RAID 0 and RAID 1 functions."

What does that mean? I only see 3 IDE type ports on this board. How do they manage to get "two sata and one parallel connector" (3 connectors total) along with a raid controller providing another SATA connector? Is there some 4th connector i'm unaware of? Doesnt SATA use the same basic hardware constructs that pata does? Namely, max two devices per channel/connector in master/slave format.

4) SATA, as i understand it, is just an improved pata. It doesn't have any noticable speed increase by itself, but paves the way for more advanced technology. That being the case, why are OEM's still manufacturing new PATA drives? Why not discontinue new pata lines and only continue to manufacture existing lines while developing new sata only?

5) A 3200+ AMD64 CPU runs at a 400MHz bus (200 DDR), which puts the calculations at 11x multiplier to get 2.2ghz. For RAM at spec, that means it will run synchronously at 200mhz ddr to get DDR400. I assume PCI still runs at 33 and AGP still runs at 66 megahertz. There's probably ratios to allow them to run at spec even with a 200mhz fsb. Question, though: Say you buy PC2700 (333, right?). Since the ASUS board doesnt allow RAM and FSB to run asycnchronously, you'd have to overclock the memory in order to run it at 200mhz (since PC2700 defaults to 167 DDR). Is this correct? Is there another way around this?

Sorry for the long post. I'm still running a Tbird 1.2ghz with SDR RAM. A bit unsure of how the newer technology works.

 

[Zepper]

They will continue to make PATA drives (but perhaps not new designs) because there is a lot of equipment out here that is not ready for SATA and they will continue to need drives for replacement and add-on space.
. You don't want to OC your RAM. If your mobo won't allow async running, either get RAM to handle the max speed of your mobo to begin with or underclock your CPU.
.bh.

 

[mechBgon]

Here's my 2¢ worth:

1) Warm fuzzies and a small boost in performance, although as you say, it may bring the OC'ing ceiling down in the process. Some Athlon64 benchmarks of CAS2 versus CAS3: link, midway on the page there

2) The Socket754 processors only have one memory controller, so no matter how many DIMMs you install, it is indeed single-channel, which there's nothing wrong with that. As you already picked up on, the K8V series will not like running three (edit: double-sided) DDR400 modules at DDR400 speed, so if you ever wanted to upgrade beyond 1GB, then having a single 1GB module to start with could be the right choice. Asus happens to recommend using the blue slot first in their manual.

3) The upper two IDE ports and the upper two SATA ports (marked "SATA1" and "SATA2") are all hosted by the VIA southbridge itself. The lower pair of SATA ports (marked "PRI_SATA" and "SEC_SATA") are hosted by the Promise controller, which also hosts that oddball IDE port down lower on the board, the one that sits crosswise.

Why did they do that? Well, the Promise can operate in two modes, RAID or "regular." In "regular" mode, you could simply use it to host some extra storage drives on its PATA port, so I could see the Promise's PATA port being useful in that way.

4) SATA is new, so it must be better 😉 ...right? I mean, the benefits are obvious: fragile connectors, only one drive per cable instead of two, higher price, and WOW, IT HAS A NUMBER 150 IN ITS NAME, THAT'S HIGHER THAN 100 OR 133 IT MUST BE TEH BETTAR!!! :Q

(*cough*)

My personal opinion is that SATA has been a real hassle for the newbies and even some intermediate builders. Unless there's a compelling reason to use it, such as the lower seek times of the 10000rpm Western Digital Raptor drives that happen to come only in an SATA interface, well, why bother with it. The tangible benefits of SATA itself, as they stand right now: slimmer cables that may be easier to route and less restrictive to airflow, and the cables can be longer (up to 1.5 meters IIRC). Am I missing any? Anyone? 😛

5) The CPU can run the memory at PC2700 speeds if that's what it has to work with. The rest of the system can still run at the 200MHz target speed at the same time.

 

[DJFuji]

mechBgon, thanks for the answers.

So assuming more aggressive memory timings lower the overclock ceiling? Why would anyone want to use them? I don't recall that running my SDR RAM at CAS2 made the system any less overclockable.

ASUS' website lists recommended RAM but doesnt mention any 1gig modules. Should i simply use the recommended brands' 1gig versions?

I didnt realize that SATA had different connectors than PATA. That explains my confusion. You can't use all connectors at once, right? Like use all four SATA connectors and all 3 PATA? You could have 10 devices on the system! Speaking of which, i'm running a Promise 100 controller on my system right now through PCI. Do you think that'll be a problem? I like to run each of my 4 devices on it's own channel.

The RAM can run at independent speeds from the FSB? I thought the big drawback to the ASUS board was a lack of RAM/FSB lock? Edit: Wait, it's an AGP/PCI lock, huh? That means that the more you overclock the FSB, the more out of spec the AGP/PCI bus are, right? And i assume you can't overclock to get to the next ratio setting, right? (i.e. like the celeron 300a was able to do at 450)

 

[mechBgon]

On the CAS settings, I'm not a l33t overclocker but I believe there are situations where you've found a ceiling elsewhere and the RAM still has room to tighten right on down to its lowest latencies anyway. In that case, why not. If we were talking the Pentium4 arena, then I'd look for THUGSROOK or Duvie to chime in, since they've done lots of experimentation on what's better, more frequency or tighter timings, on the P4 platforms where a choice sometimes had to be made when doing heavy OC'ing.

On the drives, AFAIK you can use almost all of them at once on both controllers. I'll check the K8V manual regarding what the Promise can take, because I think there's a little either/or with the PATA port on the Promise.

Update: I am looking at the manual and it says some stuff that almost seems contradictory, but it appears that the Promise controller can handle either two SATA drives, or two PATA drives plus one SATA drive. A little reality check would probably be called for. You could certainly add your PCI Promise card to the board, and the best slot for a high-traffic device appears to be PCI slot #4, which doesn't have to share its IRQ with other PCI devices, according to the chart on page 1-14.

On the VIA K8T800 chipset used in the K8V, varying the Hypertransport bus speed does vary the PCI and AGP bus speeds too, and this is the nForce3 250 and 250Gb's claim to fame, that it avoids that, leaving an overclocker more lattitude to play around with, just like nForce2 for the AthlonXP.

If I were getting a 1GB module, I'd probably pick Corsair or Crucial since Asus has no particular recommendation on 1GB modules. That's personal bias talking, however 😉

 

[DJFuji]

Thanks again mechbgon. I was originally going to sell off my ASUS mobo, but i think i'm going to keep it. Doesnt sound like it'd be worth the effort to sell it and then buy an epox for negligible differences.