A few questions about cpu's/motherboards/memory for build + Build critique

[MentalIlness]

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Mental, you've got to get this illness out of your head that more expensive products that are marketed as "high-end" are somehow better.

I know already that the "higher" priced hardware does not mean always faster. It is common sense. I just want high quality/best parts I can get. The quality could be better ( right ? wrong ? ) If there is no substantial quality increase in more expensive hardware, then by all mean I will buy something cheaper.

I also know the Corsair cooler is expensive, and may not be as good as certain air coolers. And I like the way it looks as well too as opposed to tower coolers. Maybe it wont be a lot quieter or whatever.....But never had one before...and would like to try it. Every user has a different opinion on hardware.

I doubt I would pay that much for a motherboard, but the possibility does exist. I have used boards by most manufacturers before, and the best luck has come with Gigabyte / ASUS. So I plan on staying with those options. I feel I may end up with a Gigabyte board though since the ASUS support is horrid.

Bottom line is......What would be the best givin these prices ? If you had this to spend, what would you get based on my brand bias ? Just assume you "HAVE" to spend this much.

Motherboard ( ASUS / Gigabyte ) ----$250
Processor ( Intel )---------$600
Memory ( G.Skill / Corsair )-----------$120 (16GB)
Case ( Silverstone / Antec / Corsair / Cooler master--------------$250
GPU ( Either is fine )---------------Waiting on new launch

Already have every thing else. And please stop with the too expensive debate. :thumbsup:

 

[mfenn]

Bottom line is......What would be the best givin these prices ? If you had this to spend, what would you get based on my brand bias ? Just assume you "HAVE" to spend this much.

Motherboard ( ASUS / Gigabyte ) ----$250
Processor ( Intel )---------$600
Memory ( G.Skill / Corsair )-----------$120 (16GB)
Case ( Silverstone / Antec / Corsair / Cooler master--------------$250
GPU ( Either is fine )---------------Waiting on new launch

Already have every thing else. And please stop with the too expensive debate. :thumbsup:

Bottom line is, I would never spend that much on those parts given your requirements.

If you are going to pick numbers out of thin air, just go to Newegg and find parts that match those prices. Post them here and I will tell you if there are any known defects.

 

[lehtv]

If you had $200,000 to spend on a new car, what would you get? That is an interesting question, and I might even answer it, but it doesn't mean I'd seriously consider spending $200,000 on a car.

 

[fourdegrees11]

I dont want to argue on which is better air/(SC)water, just wanted to point out that completely removing the cpus heat from your case can be achieved with water. My Antec 620 is literally mounted to my case exhaust fan, with a push/pull fan setup on the radiator, the heat is dumped directly out of the case. Having my side air fan pumping directly into the cooler fans helps my cause as well, but I cant be happier with the results. 4.1 ghz X6 @ 46.5C full load.

 

[MentalIlness]

Bottom line is, I would never spend that much on those parts given your requirements.

No, the bottom line is, it isn't you.

I never said I was going to spend that much on the hardware. That is what is basically available for each part. If you were a millionaire, would you buy the price/performance parts ? I doubt it. You would buy "all" top of the line equipment. You would want the best of the best right ? Of course you would. But since I am not a millionaire, I plan on getting the "best" for what I have available to use.

I plan on fitting in an SSD as well. And "MAYBE" upgrade to Ivy Bridge later on.

So, so far I have decided on.........

Intel 2600K
G.Skill 16GB (1333 or 1600 ) ?
Silverstone FT02
SSD ( I know nothing about these, recommendation )?
Corsair H80
Corsair HX850

 

[MentalIlness]

If you had $200,000 to spend on a new car, what would you get? That is an interesting question, and I might even answer it, but it doesn't mean I'd seriously consider spending $200,000 on a car.

I would get a 2012 Corvette. Best possible givin the funding.

 

[lehtv]

I don't quite understand why you would do that. Why get the best possible with what you have, when 95% of the functionality can be had for a quarter of the price? It makes no sense from a practical point of view. Not even if you're a millionaire or a billionaire; for him it's just easier, not more sensible, to spend that much on something that is so marginally better. All it gives you is the right to say you have a $200,000 car, but so what? There are much better ways you could spend the remainder of your car (or PC) budget.

 

[MentalIlness]

I don't quite understand why you would do that.

Because there is no Corvette that comes close to $200 Grand.

Why get the best possible with what you have, when 95% of the functionality can be had for a quarter of the price?

As I said above, Is the quality "components" better ? Caps etc ? No one seems to be answering this. I said...if they are of same quality, then cheaper is the way to go.

It makes no sense from a practical point of view.

I agree fully. Unless more expensive hardware is of better quality. Is it ?

Not even if you're a millionaire or a billionaire; for him it's just easier, not more sensible, to spend that much on something that is so marginally better. All it gives you is the right to say you have a $200,000 car, but so what? There are much better ways you could spend the remainder of your car (or PC) budget.

Once again, not a point of having the most expensive parts, But is the quality better ?

Isnt certain cpu's better binned ? Does certain motherboards use better caps ? etc ?

If they don't, cheaper / same performance is the way to go. If not, I want the higher quality hardware. Don't they use a lot better caps, like the ASUS Sabertooth boards ?

So....it isnt about price. Its about quality. I used to have a A8R32-MVP Deluxe. And 4 of the caps swelled and split.

 

[mfenn]

I guess Mental's motto is, "If at first you don't succeed, change the definition of success." :awe:

I'd prefer to try water cooling this time around. Thanks for the air cooler suggestion though.

Can we please move past the cooler please ?

So....it isnt about price. Its about quality. I used to have a A8R32-MVP Deluxe. And 4 of the caps swelled and split.

So either way I will be going high end, it just depends on now, or a little later. Doesn't matter to me either way.

 

[mfenn]

No, the bottom line is, it isn't you.

Bottom line is......What would be the best givin these prices ? If you had this to spend, what would you get based on my brand bias ? Just assume you "HAVE" to spend this much.

I thought I "HAVE" to spend that amount?

Squirm squirm squirm... :biggrin:

So, so far I have decided on.........

Intel 2600K
G.Skill 16GB (1333 or 1600 ) ?
Silverstone FT02
SSD ( I know nothing about these, recommendation )?
Corsair H80
Corsair HX850

Those are all quality parts, though the FT02 is a little hard to work in due to its strange orientation. For mobo, you could go with a GA-Z68XP-UD3 to make sure that you have SLI/CFX support as well as a USB 3.0 front panel header. As for the SSD, you can't go wrong with the Crucial M4 128GB in my opinion. See lehtv's recommendations below about why you shouldn't spend so much though.

 

[mfenn]

As I said above, Is the quality "components" better ? Caps etc ? No one seems to be answering this. I said...if they are of same quality, then cheaper is the way to go.

Why yes, yes I did:

Mental, you've got to get this illness out of your head that more expensive products that are marketed as "high-end" are somehow better.

Once you get above a certain minimum price, below which manufacturer's have to cut corners, no. A $150 MSRP mobo already has high-quality caps, mosfets, etc. Same goes for an $80 MSRP PSU. Notice that I said, "MSRP", this discounts sales which frequently drops prices lower than the figures that I gave.

Isnt certain cpu's better binned ?

Yes, of course higher-end CPUs are binned higher. They have to be in order to meet their specifications. Note that "better binning" does NOT meant that an i7 2700K is significantly more likely to clock higher than an i5 2500K.

This requires a little bit of understanding of statistics, but imagine that the chips coming off the line follow a normal distribution with regard to maximum attainable clock speed. The chips are binned according to the frequency that they are tested at, not according to their maximum clock speed. So, Intel will test a chip at 3.5GHz, and if it passes, it will call that an i7 2700K. That chip's maximum clock speed could be 3.6GHz, but it doesn't matter, it's still an i7 2700K. Once the quota of i7 2700K's are met, the next chips are tested to be i7 2600K's. Then the i5 2500K's, and so on. So, the distribution will shift to the left somewhat for the lower-end chips. Since i7 2700K's and i7 2600K's are such a small proportion of the total number of chips sold, the distribution, that shift will be minimal compared to the standard deviation of the curve. Basically, if your goal is to find a high-clocking chip, you are better off buying two i5 2500K's and using the better of the two than buying one i7 2700K.

 

[lehtv]

Once again, not a point of having the most expensive parts, But is the quality better ?

Up to a point, quality does increase with price. I'd say that point is somewhere in the "mid-range". But then you get exponentially increasing price with added features, marginally higher performance, better looks, unnecessarily big heatsinks (on motherboards), etc, that don't have much to do with build quality and reliability. Such components I'd place in the "high end".

As mentioned earlier, a motherboard half the price of the $270 Asus Deluxe will most likely do everything you need from a motherboard. I did not realize it'd need to be mentioned that in terms of quality and reliability, such a motherboard would be as good.

Now the other parts you've listed:

Intel 2600K
G.Skill 16GB (1333 or 1600 ) ?
Silverstone FT02
SSD ( I know nothing about these, recommendation )?
Corsair H80
Corsair HX850

2600K is faster in encoding, but probably not $100 faster than 2500K. And not really any higher quality, just marginally better performance. If you're not mostly going to do encoding, I can't recommend it from a price/performance point of view.

16GB 1600Mhz RAM is good, as long as your video projects actually need that much RAM. E.g. 2 of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820226191 $80 total

Case - Expensive... Fractal Design R3 would cost less than half that, and I can personally recommend it, it's good quality. I don't really see what the FT02 gives that could possibly justify the increase in price. In addition, the R3 has noise insulation which the FT02 lacks. Or to trade noise insulation for better cooling, the Arc Midi. (Or just add fans to the R3).

SSD - Crucial M4 or Samsung 830. Intel 510 is also fast and reliable, but more expensive and not any higher quality.

H80 - we've been over this one.

HX850 - quality-wise, a Seasonic-built XFX 850W would be just as good for $50 less. What the HX850 offers over XFX 850W is not better quality, but modularity, a bit higher efficiency, and 7-year warranty from Corsair. Modularity is probably the main thing. If that's desired, then the XFX 850W XXX is better priced than HX850. I'm not wholly convinced you'll ever need 850W though, might be smarter to go with a lower wattage unit, e.g. PCP&C 600W $50 AR, for now and then if the need arises, replace it with a higher wattage unit.

 

[MentalIlness]

I guess Mental's motto is, "If at first you don't succeed, change the definition of success." :awe:

Nah, I guess I should just smoke less.:biggrin:

I thought I "HAVE" to spend that amount?

Yes, but the point was, you WERE going to spend that much. Not if you would or not.

Those are all quality parts, though the FT02 is a little hard to work in due to its strange orientation. For mobo, you could go with a GA-Z68XP-UD3 to make sure that you have SLI/CFX support as well as a USB 3.0 front panel header. As for the SSD, you can't go wrong with the Crucial M4 128GB in my opinion.

The Crucial M4 I was just looking at on Newegg. So going to go with that.
Is the "Gigabyte Z68 UD3P" worth the few extra bucks over the UD3 ?

The reason I like the FT02 is the reversed design if you will. And the AP fans is great in the bottom as well. But I guess the Raven has those features as well.

Yes, of course higher-end CPUs are binned higher. They have to be in order to meet their specifications. Note that "better binning" does NOT meant that an i7 2700K is significantly more likely to clock higher than an i5 2500K.

This bolded part, I thought they would clock a bit higher. But apparently not. So, 2500K it is.

This requires a little bit of understanding of statistics, but imagine that the chips coming off the line follow a normal distribution with regard to maximum attainable clock speed. The chips are binned according to the frequency that they are tested at, not according to their maximum clock speed. So, Intel will test a chip at 3.5GHz, and if it passes, it will call that an i7 2700K. That chip's maximum clock speed could be 3.6GHz, but it doesn't matter, it's still an i7 2700K. Once the quota of i7 2700K's are met, the next chips are tested to be i7 2600K's. Then the i5 2500K's, and so on. So, the distribution will shift to the left somewhat for the lower-end chips. Since i7 2700K's and i7 2600K's are such a small proportion of the total number of chips sold, the distribution, that shift will be minimal compared to the standard deviation of the curve. Basically, if your goal is to find a high-clocking chip, you are better off buying two i5 2500K's and using the better of the two than buying one i7 2700K.

Perfectly explained.

Up to a point, quality does increase with price. I'd say that point is somewhere in the "mid-range". But then you get exponentially increasing price with added features, marginally higher performance, better looks, unnecessarily big heatsinks (on motherboards), etc, that don't have much to do with build quality and reliability. Such components I'd place in the "high end".

As mentioned earlier, a motherboard half the price of the $270 Asus Deluxe will most likely do everything you need from a motherboard. I did not realize it'd need to be mentioned that in terms of quality and reliability, such a motherboard would be as good.

Now the other parts you've listed:

2600K is faster in encoding, but probably not $100 faster than 2500K. And not really any higher quality, just marginally better performance. If you're not mostly going to do encoding, I can't recommend it from a price/performance point of view.

2500K it is.

16GB 1600Mhz RAM is good, as long as your video projects actually need that much RAM. E.g. 2 of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820226191 $80 total

Was looking at this one. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231312

SSD - Crucial M4 or Samsung 830. Intel 510 is also fast and reliable, but more expensive and not any higher quality.

Decided on the Crucial M4. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148442

HX850 - quality-wise, a Seasonic-built XFX 850W would be just as good for $50 less. What the HX850 offers over XFX 850W is not better quality, but modularity, a bit higher efficiency, and 7-year warranty from Corsair. Modularity is probably the main thing. If that's desired, then the XFX 850W XXX is better priced than HX850. I'm not wholly convinced you'll ever need 850W though, might be smarter to go with a lower wattage unit, e.g. PCP&C 600W $50 AR, for now and then if the need arises, replace it with a higher wattage unit.

Is this the one ? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...&Tpk=xfx%20850

 

[lehtv]

2500K it is.

Also just to give you a clearer picture, here's a comparison: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/287?vs=288

A lot of the time you see a very small difference which can be explained by the 100MHz difference in stock clock frequency (which won't matter since you OC). In video encoding, you don't always see a big difference - the application needs to be (heavily) multithreaded for a big difference to arise, e.g. the x264 2nd pass test and Cinebench multi-threaded test. If the time you save when encoding in multi-threaded applications is very important, then the 2600K can be worth it

Was looking at this one. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231312

I'd pay the $5 more to have 1600Mhz instead of 1333MHz (the system will be 0-3% faster in applications, it depends). Also Ivy Bridge will use 1600Mhz as the default speed (though 1333 should work as well)

Decided on the Crucial M4. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148442

:thumbsup:

Is this the one ? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...&Tpk=xfx%20850

Yes.

 

[MentalIlness]

I'd pay the $5 more to have 1600Mhz instead of 1333MHz (the system will be 0-3% faster in applications, it depends). Also Ivy Bridge will use 1600Mhz as the default speed (though 1333 should work as well)

:thumbsup:

Yes.

Your right. I meant to link that.

I meant 2 x this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231428

 

[lehtv]

Mushkin Blackline 1600Mhz 1.5V is just as good. I can't compare the companies though, no idea which one has better customer service etc.

 

[MentalIlness]

Edited OP to reflect changes.

 

[mfenn]

Edited OP to reflect changes.

Glad you're coming around. :awe: Current parts look good.

The difference between the GA-Z68XP-UD3 and GA-Z68XP-UD3P is that the P has a different color scheme and a bit more cooling on the power delivery circuitry. Not worth $25 IMHO.