A few AMD 64 X2 questions...

datamestonic

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Nov 8, 2005
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I'm getting an SLI computer probably with a 4400 dual core, but I have a few questions.

First of all what is this 'operton' model that everyone is talking about? I know I probably sound like a total retard asking a question like that, but I've been doing literally about 8 hours of research every day for the last week, and I've just recently come upon this term. I'm getting the idea that its a more advanced type of AMD processor...

Another thing I wanted to ask is that I noticed that the 4400+ x2's have hyper transport technology, but not hyper threading... Is hyper threading important to have for the future? And if so which processors offer it?
 

EightySix Four

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Jul 17, 2004
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Hyperthreading is a dead technology, used to make the older Pentium 4's faster do to their ineffeciencies.

Opteron's are AMD's "workstation/server" class processors, there is 0 point in getting one unless you plan on overclocking.

Hypertransport is the most technologically advanced method (in current use) of the processor to talk to the rest of the computer. It's one of the reasons intel is behind in the server area.
 

Mik3y

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Mar 2, 2004
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The Opteron is AMD's highest quality CPU's. It's highest end model, the Opteron 180, is basically the same as the X2 4800+. They are similar in performance and such, but the Opteron is made of higher quality, thus also allowing for higher overclocks. The most popular AMD CPU right now is the Opteron 165. For $300, it performs the same as the X2 4400+ and is cheaper, but overclocks extremely well. Overclocks have been well beyone 2.5GHz on just stock cooling too. Note that the Opteron 180 and the X2 4800+ are 2MB L2 Cache and are each 2.4GHz. Now you know. :)

:beer: for you.
 

n7

Elite Member
Jan 4, 2004
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Originally posted by: Mik3y
For $300, it performs the same as the X2 4400+ and is cheaper, but overclocks extremely well.

Uhhh...no.

The Opteron 165 should perform around the same levels as an X2 3800+, since the 165 is 2x 1.8 Ghz with 2x 1 MB L2 cache.
Basically, the cache would make up for the slower CPU speed.
There's no way it would perform the same as a 4400+

Now it is likely a better choice for OCing, though :)

Since the 165 is pretty much completely unavailable anywhere though, the Opteron 170 (2x 2.0 GHz with 2x 1 MB L2 cache) would be the OCing alternative.
 

datamestonic

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Nov 8, 2005
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So are there dual/multi core opertons as well? Are they just as good for gaming if not better than the normal 64s?

Thanks ALOT for the answers! That was very helpful.
 

n7

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Jan 4, 2004
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Originally posted by: datamestonic
So are there dual/multi core opertons as well? Are they just as good for gaming if not better than the normal 64s?

Thanks ALOT for the answers! That was very helpful.


There are, but they are not available for s939 AFAIK. (Dual core ones are though, of course)

Opterons are actually designed for server use, but since AMD introduced the s939 Opterons (which work with regular systems), & people discovered their pricing & OCing ability, they have become incredibly popular.

I would have recommended one in your post in GH, but you mentioned you don't want to OC, so there's no real reason to go with them over the X2s then.
 

datamestonic

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Nov 8, 2005
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Originally posted by: n7
Originally posted by: datamestonic
So are there dual/multi core opertons as well? Are they just as good for gaming if not better than the normal 64s?

Thanks ALOT for the answers! That was very helpful.


There are, but they are not available for s939 AFAIK. (Dual core ones are though, of course)

Opterons are actually designed for server use, but since AMD introduced the s939 Opterons (which work with regular systems), & people discovered their pricing & OCing ability, they have become incredibly popular.

I would have recommended one in your post in GH, but you mentioned you don't want to OC, so there's no real reason to go with them over the X2s then.

Right I understand... This is also the first system I'm building so I'll probably stick with the more mainstream products and go with the 4400 as I planned. Thanks again for your input, much appreciated!
 

Madellga

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Sep 9, 2004
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Originally posted by: Mik3y
The Opteron is AMD's highest quality CPU's. It's highest end model, the Opteron 180, is basically the same as the X2 4800+. They are similar in performance and such, but the Opteron is made of higher quality, thus also allowing for higher overclocks. The most popular AMD CPU right now is the Opteron 165. For $300, it performs the same as the X2 4400+ and is cheaper, but overclocks extremely well. Overclocks have been well beyone 2.5GHz on just stock cooling too. Note that the Opteron 180 and the X2 4800+ are 2MB L2 Cache and are each 2.4GHz. Now you know. :)

:beer: for you.

I don't think AMD makes the CPUs with different qualities. The manufacturing process is the same.

What think they could do is to sort the CPUs after production.

 

forumposter32

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May 23, 2005
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Originally posted by: Madellga
Originally posted by: Mik3y
The Opteron is AMD's highest quality CPU's. It's highest end model, the Opteron 180, is basically the same as the X2 4800+. They are similar in performance and such, but the Opteron is made of higher quality, thus also allowing for higher overclocks. The most popular AMD CPU right now is the Opteron 165. For $300, it performs the same as the X2 4400+ and is cheaper, but overclocks extremely well. Overclocks have been well beyone 2.5GHz on just stock cooling too. Note that the Opteron 180 and the X2 4800+ are 2MB L2 Cache and are each 2.4GHz. Now you know. :)

:beer: for you.

I don't think AMD makes the CPUs with different qualities. The manufacturing process is the same.

What think they could do is to sort the CPUs after production.

?

I thought they rejected GPUs for certain high end video cards and put them in lower end cards.

 

ribbon13

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Feb 1, 2005
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Summarization of the whole issue:

Opterons are the cores that past the most stringent of testing, because they are meant for servers/workstations and 24/7/365 use without failing. The ones that fail, but still past stringent testing become the X2 4800s and FXs. The rest become regulars A64s/X2s.

The only reason the Opteron 165 is cheaper than the X2 3800+ is because it's only clocked at 1.8Ghz while the X2 3800+ is clocked at 2.0Ghz. The Opteron 170 which is clocked at 2.0GHz costs $80 more than the X2 3800+. And the Opteron 165 will reach 2.0GHz without even breaking a sweat. The X2 4400+ is the cheapest X2 with 1MB L2 cache per core, clocked at 2.2GHz and costs $200 more than the Opteron 165. Comparing the Opteron 175 to the X2 4400+ you can see that server-class quality does cost extra. A 400Mhz stable overclock should easily be obtainable on most if not all Opteron 165s. So there you go. $525 CPUs performance for $300

Dual-core Opteron 165 ($299)
1.8GHz / 1MB L2 per core

Dual-core Opteron 170 ($399)
2.0GHz / 1MB L2 per core

Althon 64 X2 3800+ ($322)
2.0GHz / 512k L2 per core

Athlon 64 X2 4400+ ($499)
2.2GHz / 1MB L2 per core

Dual-core Opteron 175 ($525)
2.2GHz / 1MB L2 per core
 

datamestonic

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Nov 8, 2005
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Ribbon your computer is amazing (incase you didn't know, but you probably did).

Anyway thanks for that response.

So this is the first computer I'm building from scratch, I've only done upgrades etc. before but I'm certainly doing my research on how this all works, been spending a good 6 or so hours each day for the last week researching on what parts to get for this rig.

If I have the cash would it be a good idea to go for the dual core operton 175 or should I stay away from opertons all together until I have more experience?
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
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Originally posted by: ribbon13
Summarization of the whole issue:

Opterons are the cores that past the most stringent of testing, because they are meant for servers/workstations and 24/7/365 use without failing. The ones that fail, but still past stringent testing become the X2 4800s and FXs. The rest become regulars A64s/X2s.

just a minor technicality, but the A64 chips is not only those who fail an extended testing, but is also regulated by market demands so for that reason you can get lucky and get an A64 chip that has passed the extended tests.
 

ribbon13

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2005
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Originally posted by: datamestonic
If I have the cash would it be a good idea to go for the dual core operton 175 or should I stay away from opertons all together until I have more experience?

Get a dual-core opteron, regardless of your experience.

If you're worried about damaging it because of being a novice, just remember this

Stick to stock voltages! Do not raise vCore! As long as you do that while your learning, your CPU will be safe.
 

imported_rod

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Apr 13, 2005
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Originally posted by: forumposter32
I thought they rejected GPUs for certain high end video cards and put them in lower end cards.
My understanding of it is that it defines the letters at the end of the card.

e.g. If a 7800gtx chip is produced, but it cant handle the 430Mhz speed, or some of the 24 pipelines are defective, then it will be slowed down to 400Mhz and have the 4 worst pipelines disabled, and tada... you have a 7800gt.

RoD
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
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Originally posted by: biostud
just a minor technicality, but the A64 chips is not only those who fail an extended testing, but is also regulated by market demands so for that reason you can get lucky and get an A64 chip that has passed the extended tests.

That's true, and I think it helps explain the awesome X2 3800+ overclocks we've seen recently. The demand must be enormous (certainly compared to the 4800+) which means cores originally intended to be other flavors are being labeled as 3800+.