A Fair Up Or Down Vote?

randym431

Golden Member
Jun 4, 2003
1,270
1
0
I'm so sick of hearing this bs from the republicans and their president.
They control the votes, with their majority. And naturally, they most ALWAYS stick together. So asking for a "fair up or down vote" really means "we want to win, screw you". Now they are running ad's on the fair up or down vote krapola. I'm starting to think this Supreme Court pick is a bad egg. If not, why would they already be pushing it.

I just hope the Democrats have the balls to do whats right, if they need to.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: randym431
I'm so sick of hearing this bs from the republicans and their president.
They control the votes, with their majority. And naturally, they most ALWAYS stick together. So asking for a "fair up or down vote" really means "we want to win, screw you". Now they are running ad's on the fair up or down vote krapola. I'm starting to think this Supreme Court pick is a bad egg. If not, why would they already be pushing it.

I just hope the Democrats have the balls to do whats right, if they need to.



I hoping the dems filibuster this one, should help more of them being kicked out in 06.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: randym431
I'm so sick of hearing this bs from the republicans and their president.
They control the votes, with their majority. And naturally, they most ALWAYS stick together. So asking for a "fair up or down vote" really means "we want to win, screw you". Now they are running ad's on the fair up or down vote krapola. I'm starting to think this Supreme Court pick is a bad egg. If not, why would they already be pushing it.

I just hope the Democrats have the balls to do whats right, if they need to.



I hoping the dems filibuster this one, should help more of them being kicked out in 06.

Was politics always this tool-filled? In a good system with good people, we wouldn't have to worry about fillibusters or up-down votes, because everyone would look at the issue and vote the way they thought was best. Instead we have a system where the majority is wetting themselves at the opportunity to do exactly what their party wants, forcing the minority to simply hold up the process. What the hell kind of system do we have here?
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: randym431
I'm so sick of hearing this bs from the republicans and their president.
They control the votes, with their majority. And naturally, they most ALWAYS stick together. So asking for a "fair up or down vote" really means "we want to win, screw you". Now they are running ad's on the fair up or down vote krapola. I'm starting to think this Supreme Court pick is a bad egg. If not, why would they already be pushing it.

I just hope the Democrats have the balls to do whats right, if they need to.



I hoping the dems filibuster this one, should help more of them being kicked out in 06.

Was politics always this tool-filled? In a good system with good people, we wouldn't have to worry about fillibusters or up-down votes, because everyone would look at the issue and vote the way they thought was best. Instead we have a system where the majority is wetting themselves at the opportunity to do exactly what their party wants, forcing the minority to simply hold up the process. What the hell kind of system do we have here?

How soon the democrats foget about how they treated a republican minority...

The senate should approve judges based on their character not their politics. At this point democrats will probably filibuster anything more than a moderate.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: randym431
I'm so sick of hearing this bs from the republicans and their president.
They control the votes, with their majority. And naturally, they most ALWAYS stick together. So asking for a "fair up or down vote" really means "we want to win, screw you". Now they are running ad's on the fair up or down vote krapola. I'm starting to think this Supreme Court pick is a bad egg. If not, why would they already be pushing it.

I just hope the Democrats have the balls to do whats right, if they need to.



I hoping the dems filibuster this one, should help more of them being kicked out in 06.

Was politics always this tool-filled? In a good system with good people, we wouldn't have to worry about fillibusters or up-down votes, because everyone would look at the issue and vote the way they thought was best. Instead we have a system where the majority is wetting themselves at the opportunity to do exactly what their party wants, forcing the minority to simply hold up the process. What the hell kind of system do we have here?

How soon the democrats foget about how they treated a republican minority...

The senate should approve judges based on their character not their politics. At this point democrats will probably filibuster anything more than a moderate.

Oh I certainly wasn't letting the Democrats off the hook. The way both parties act whenever they are in the majority makes me wish we had made political parties illegal. Washington tried to start a trend, and the asshats had to come along and ruin it.

I agree, the senate should approve judges based on character. That's a lot of power to give someone, character is what makes sure they treat that position with the respect it deserved.
 

Rastus

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
4,704
3
0
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: randym431
I'm so sick of hearing this bs from the republicans and their president.
They control the votes, with their majority. And naturally, they most ALWAYS stick together. So asking for a "fair up or down vote" really means "we want to win, screw you". Now they are running ad's on the fair up or down vote krapola. I'm starting to think this Supreme Court pick is a bad egg. If not, why would they already be pushing it.

I just hope the Democrats have the balls to do whats right, if they need to.
Unfortunately character is very subjective, especially in Washington. Both sides will be making claims to this person's character that are 180 out.


I hoping the dems filibuster this one, should help more of them being kicked out in 06.

Was politics always this tool-filled? In a good system with good people, we wouldn't have to worry about fillibusters or up-down votes, because everyone would look at the issue and vote the way they thought was best. Instead we have a system where the majority is wetting themselves at the opportunity to do exactly what their party wants, forcing the minority to simply hold up the process. What the hell kind of system do we have here?

How soon the democrats foget about how they treated a republican minority...

The senate should approve judges based on their character not their politics. At this point democrats will probably filibuster anything more than a moderate.

Oh I certainly wasn't letting the Democrats off the hook. The way both parties act whenever they are in the majority makes me wish we had made political parties illegal. Washington tried to start a trend, and the asshats had to come along and ruin it.

I agree, the senate should approve judges based on character. That's a lot of power to give someone, character is what makes sure they treat that position with the respect it deserved.

 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Originally posted by: randym431
I'm so sick of hearing this bs from the republicans and their president.
They control the votes, with their majority. And naturally, they most ALWAYS stick together. So asking for a "fair up or down vote" really means "we want to win, screw you". Now they are running ad's on the fair up or down vote krapola. I'm starting to think this Supreme Court pick is a bad egg. If not, why would they already be pushing it.

I just hope the Democrats have the balls to do whats right, if they need to.

And what does a filibuster mean? Sorry, 55% of America, you don't count for sh*t, so lets take over the government. :roll: Fair vote means fair vote, everyone gets a shot and is represented.
 

rustynails

Banned
Jun 22, 2005
115
0
0
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: randym431
I'm so sick of hearing this bs from the republicans and their president.
They control the votes, with their majority. And naturally, they most ALWAYS stick together. So asking for a "fair up or down vote" really means "we want to win, screw you". Now they are running ad's on the fair up or down vote krapola. I'm starting to think this Supreme Court pick is a bad egg. If not, why would they already be pushing it.

I just hope the Democrats have the balls to do whats right, if they need to.



I hoping the dems filibuster this one, should help more of them being kicked out in 06.

Was politics always this tool-filled? In a good system with good people, we wouldn't have to worry about fillibusters or up-down votes, because everyone would look at the issue and vote the way they thought was best. Instead we have a system where the majority is wetting themselves at the opportunity to do exactly what their party wants, forcing the minority to simply hold up the process. What the hell kind of system do we have here?

aaaaa...
How about a system of partisan hacks, just like this forum. One more example of a conically shaped universe.

Did you really need an explanation? C-mon man.


 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: randym431
I'm so sick of hearing this bs from the republicans and their president.
They control the votes, with their majority. And naturally, they most ALWAYS stick together. So asking for a "fair up or down vote" really means "we want to win, screw you". Now they are running ad's on the fair up or down vote krapola. I'm starting to think this Supreme Court pick is a bad egg. If not, why would they already be pushing it.

I just hope the Democrats have the balls to do whats right, if they need to.



I hoping the dems filibuster this one, should help more of them being kicked out in 06.
hopefully they stick to this.

Democratic Filibuster of Roberts Unlikely
Associated Press

WASHINGTON - The possibility of a Democratic filibuster against Supreme Court nominee John Roberts in the Republican-controlled Senate seemed to all but disappear Wednesday.

One key Democrat said Roberts was "in the ballpark" of being a non-confrontational selection, and a Judiciary Committee Democrat said she didn't think Bush's nominee was "filibuster-able."

At the same time, a conservative group purchased TV ad time in support of Roberts while abortion rights groups staged protests against him at the Supreme Court and Capitol.

On Capitol Hill, Republicans moved to squeeze Roberts' confirmation hearings and vote into a one-month timeframe after Labor Day.

While refusing to commit before Roberts' confirmation hearing, Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada said he hadn't heard any senators in his party mention filibustering President Bush's replacement for retiring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.

"Do I believe this is a filibuster-able nominee? The answer would be no, not at this time I don't," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein (news, bio, voting record) of California, a strong abortion-rights supporter and a Democratic member of the Judiciary Committee.

Several of the seven GOP members of the so-called "Gang of 14" who brokered a deal over judicial filibusters indicated they thought a filibuster against Roberts would be unwarranted. Most have already praised Roberts, and their support would make it almost impossible for Democrats to carry out a filibuster.

The fourteen senators will meet Thursday morning to talk about Roberts.

"I think that Judge Roberts deserves an up-or-down vote, and I hope that the other members of that group agree with me," said Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.

Democrat Joe Lieberman of Connecticut said the group had sent a message to the president to send the Senate a mainstream conservative. "And it appears at first look that Judge Roberts is that," he said.

Roberts is "in the ballpark of a non-confrontational nominee," Lieberman added.

Judiciary Committee Arlen Specter, R-Pa., said he preferred waiting until September to begin hearings, though that would give the Senate just four weeks to complete all action on Roberts.

O'Connor has said she will stay on the court until Roberts is confirmed, but Republicans believe Roberts is more conservative and would rather have him voting on close cases than O'Connor, who has been the swing vote in several 5-4 decisions by the justices.

Specter hinted that he may allow only three or four witnesses at Roberts' confirmation hearing, and that he doesn't see it going beyond three or four days. "But we're not going to rush it," he said. "We're going to take whatever time is needed."

Senators also may hold closed hearings if there is confidential information to be discussed, Specter warned. Roberts' confidential FBI file may be stored in the Capitol's fourth floor intelligence briefing rooms to keep media leaks to a minimum, Specter added.

To support Roberts, the conservative Progress for America said it will spend $1 million on grass-roots efforts and the first Roberts advertising on TV, radio and the Internet.

The television ads, scheduled to start Wednesday night, will be limited to national cable news channels. The ads will also be shown Sunday in the Washington, D.C., television market during the morning talk shows on local affiliates of CBS, ABC and NBC.

"Shouldn't a fair judge be treated fairly? Urge the Senate to give John Roberts a fair up-or-down vote," the ad says, a reference to the simple majority of 51 votes needed to confirm rather than 60 votes required to overcome a filibuster.

Abortion-rights groups rallied in Washington in hopes of building support to stop Roberts' confirmation.

Several hundred women marched Wednesday morning in front of the Supreme Court, which faces the east front of the U.S. Capitol, carrying signs that said, "Save Roe!" and "Our bodies, our lives, our right to decide!" Others headed to a Senate office building where Roberts was to meet with top Judiciary Democrat Patrick Leahy of Vermont.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050720/ap_...;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
I think they'll let this one go.

But you better believe that a Stevens or Renquist departure (or both) will bring about total war. The left will force the fillibuster issue before they risk losing the court 6-3. As it stands now you have three no-doubt conservatives on the court; Renquist, Thomas & Scalia. Roberts sounds like another one but we won't know until he sits and decides actual cases. If Renquist retires/dies the math stays the same. If Stevens retires/dies the game changes. That would allow Dubbya to set the court with 5 confirmed conservatives.

Then it gets real insteresting... Kennedy and Souter probably wont go anywhere before Dub cycles out but Ginsburg... It'll beinteresting to see if she hangs out till the end of Dub's term. I guess we'll just have to sit an wait.

As far as a fair up/down vote goes, nobody had ever fillibustered judicial nominees before the dems started doing it. It's just not part of the system. The republicans were in power when they gave an up/down vote to Ginsburg for crying out loud. They knew she was a lefty but they also knew that she was a qualified jurist and therefore had no cause to block her. It's unbelievable that the dems would block qualified nominees on ideological grounds only.

It just lends more leverege to the crowd that says the left can't win on a legislative basis so they use the courts. And if the courts get away from a lefitst activist standing and quit legislating from the bench they are dead in the water.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,736
6,759
126
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: randym431
I'm so sick of hearing this bs from the republicans and their president.
They control the votes, with their majority. And naturally, they most ALWAYS stick together. So asking for a "fair up or down vote" really means "we want to win, screw you". Now they are running ad's on the fair up or down vote krapola. I'm starting to think this Supreme Court pick is a bad egg. If not, why would they already be pushing it.

I just hope the Democrats have the balls to do whats right, if they need to.

And what does a filibuster mean? Sorry, 55% of America, you don't count for sh*t, so lets take over the government. :roll: Fair vote means fair vote, everyone gets a shot and is represented.

I want my two senators to filibuster. That will represent me as I am supposed to be represented. We are represented state by state.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Bush met with 4 dems days prior to the Roberts nomination. That was not coincidence. He will pass no problem There are bigger fish to fry right now.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
What is so bad about making decisions about law cases based on upholding the law?

After all, that is what judges are suppose to do. That is why there is a separation between those that make the laws and those that adjucate the law. If you dont like it run for congress and change the laws yourself.
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: randym431
I'm so sick of hearing this bs from the republicans and their president.
They control the votes, with their majority. And naturally, they most ALWAYS stick together. So asking for a "fair up or down vote" really means "we want to win, screw you". Now they are running ad's on the fair up or down vote krapola. I'm starting to think this Supreme Court pick is a bad egg. If not, why would they already be pushing it.

I just hope the Democrats have the balls to do whats right, if they need to.

And what does a filibuster mean? Sorry, 55% of America, you don't count for sh*t, so lets take over the government. :roll: Fair vote means fair vote, everyone gets a shot and is represented.

I want my two senators to filibuster. That will represent me as I am supposed to be represented. We are represented state by state.

The left really values democracy.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
I think they'll let this one go.

But you better believe that a Stevens or Renquist departure (or both) will bring about total war. The left will force the fillibuster issue before they risk losing the court 6-3. As it stands now you have three no-doubt conservatives on the court; Renquist, Thomas & Scalia. Roberts sounds like another one but we won't know until he sits and decides actual cases. If Renquist retires/dies the math stays the same. If Stevens retires/dies the game changes. That would allow Dubbya to set the court with 5 confirmed conservatives.

Then it gets real insteresting... Kennedy and Souter probably wont go anywhere before Dub cycles out but Ginsburg... It'll beinteresting to see if she hangs out till the end of Dub's term. I guess we'll just have to sit an wait.

As far as a fair up/down vote goes, nobody had ever fillibustered judicial nominees before the dems started doing it. It's just not part of the system. The republicans were in power when they gave an up/down vote to Ginsburg for crying out loud. They knew she was a lefty but they also knew that she was a qualified jurist and therefore had no cause to block her. It's unbelievable that the dems would block qualified nominees on ideological grounds only.

It just lends more leverege to the crowd that says the left can't win on a legislative basis so they use the courts. And if the courts get away from a lefitst activist standing and quit legislating from the bench they are dead in the water.



And this is what it is all about. IT is not about qualified candidates, it is about control of the courts. Having lost political control of the country, they only have the courts left to implement their agenda.

I guess this is the reason James Madison wanted judges approved by a 1/3 vote....
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: randym431
I'm so sick of hearing this bs from the republicans and their president.
They control the votes, with their majority. And naturally, they most ALWAYS stick together. So asking for a "fair up or down vote" really means "we want to win, screw you". Now they are running ad's on the fair up or down vote krapola. I'm starting to think this Supreme Court pick is a bad egg. If not, why would they already be pushing it.

I just hope the Democrats have the balls to do whats right, if they need to.

And what does a filibuster mean? Sorry, 55% of America, you don't count for sh*t, so lets take over the government. :roll: Fair vote means fair vote, everyone gets a shot and is represented.

I want my two senators to filibuster. That will represent me as I am supposed to be represented. We are represented state by state.

The left really values saving America.

Fixed for you.
 

wirelessenabled

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2001
2,191
41
91
We need a Constitutional amendment to make the approval of lifelong appointments like judges require a super-majority of 66%. That would stop all this BS.

The notion that confirmation of a judge to the SC who may serve 30-40 years only needs 51% vote is bad. Our system of government is based on checks and balances ie the need to move toward the middle of whatever the extremes are at the time. The so-called "fair" up or down vote means that 50.00000001% can hold sway over the other 49.999999990% Has caused problems in the past, is causing problems now, and will cause problems until the Constitution is fixed.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Huh, funny how the Repubs change their tune when they control both the Executive and the Senate. Ten years ago, Orrin Hatch claimed that the filibuster was the neatest thing since sliced bread, allowed blue-slipping and stalling through Clinton's entire term, and wouldn't even convene the judiciary committee for extended periods....

I guess things were different then, or White Man speak with forked tongue... There is no shame when you're on a mission from God...

 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
We need a Constitutional amendment to make the approval of lifelong appointments like judges require a super-majority of 66%. That would stop all this BS.

The notion that confirmation of a judge to the SC who may serve 30-40 years only needs 51% vote is bad. Our system of government is based on checks and balances ie the need to move toward the middle of whatever the extremes are at the time. The so-called "fair" up or down vote means that 50.00000001% can hold sway over the other 49.999999990% Has caused problems in the past, is causing problems now, and will cause problems until the Constitution is fixed.

Fine. Let's establish such a rule, starting in 2008 with the next President.

Clearly, not if you are Republican.
Are you talking about Al Gore's attempt to circumvent the vote by appealing to the courts?
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Huh, funny how the Repubs change their tune when they control both the Executive and the Senate. Ten years ago, Orrin Hatch claimed that the filibuster was the neatest thing since sliced bread, allowed blue-slipping and stalling through Clinton's entire term, and wouldn't even convene the judiciary committee for extended periods....

I guess things were different then, or White Man speak with forked tongue... There is no shame when you're on a mission from God...


Well the filibuster was never used 10 years ago on judges...
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
We need a Constitutional amendment to make the approval of lifelong appointments like judges require a super-majority of 66%. That would stop all this BS.

The notion that confirmation of a judge to the SC who may serve 30-40 years only needs 51% vote is bad. Our system of government is based on checks and balances ie the need to move toward the middle of whatever the extremes are at the time. The so-called "fair" up or down vote means that 50.00000001% can hold sway over the other 49.999999990% Has caused problems in the past, is causing problems now, and will cause problems until the Constitution is fixed.

Fine. Let's establish such a rule, starting in 2008 with the next President.



Such a rule would would make it so that judges would never get appointed.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
We need a Constitutional amendment to make the approval of lifelong appointments like judges require a super-majority of 66%. That would stop all this BS.

The notion that confirmation of a judge to the SC who may serve 30-40 years only needs 51% vote is bad. Our system of government is based on checks and balances ie the need to move toward the middle of whatever the extremes are at the time. The so-called "fair" up or down vote means that 50.00000001% can hold sway over the other 49.999999990% Has caused problems in the past, is causing problems now, and will cause problems until the Constitution is fixed.

Fine. Let's establish such a rule, starting in 2008 with the next President.



Such a rule would would make it so that judges would never get appointed.

Indeed. And actually the system we have now doesn't seem all that bad. As people have said, Roberts probably WILL get a straight up-down vote, the whining commercials, etc, are probably not necessary.
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
We need a Constitutional amendment to make the approval of lifelong appointments like judges require a super-majority of 66%. That would stop all this BS.

The notion that confirmation of a judge to the SC who may serve 30-40 years only needs 51% vote is bad. Our system of government is based on checks and balances ie the need to move toward the middle of whatever the extremes are at the time. The so-called "fair" up or down vote means that 50.00000001% can hold sway over the other 49.999999990% Has caused problems in the past, is causing problems now, and will cause problems until the Constitution is fixed.

Fine. Let's establish such a rule, starting in 2008 with the next President.



Such a rule would would make it so that judges would never get appointed.

Indeed. And actually the system we have now doesn't seem all that bad. As people have said, Roberts probably WILL get a straight up-down vote, the whining commercials, etc, are probably not necessary.

I don't see those ads as a plea for an up or down vote. Let's face it, they are the first salvo of what is going to be a very ugly, knock-down drag-out, fight between 527 groups in '06.

Game on!